Why does sluicing work that way?

[Higgins909 0]

I've quickly became disapointed when my sluice boxes where all overworked... like 5 mins and they where done, only got 2 minerals or something.

 

what I really want to ask, is why don't they work like this?

 

some sort of gravel/sand tester for minerals/gems/ores (no idea if sand works like gravel)

... I've noticed different gravel types, different types should yield different stuff, and be located in different areas.

  You should be able to setup some epic sluice box base and never have to move it...

just go places and find gravel/sand and run it though...

one thing I didnt like was having to be right next to a water source, and it could be broken by a greifer or something? by replacing all the water source

blocks with gravel/dirt... and you gotta move that whole setup to a new water source?

 

gold panning should work in a similar way, possible even be able to test what gravel is there.

... is that the idea? constantly moving the sluice boxes?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

some other thoughts

I don't think the kilm fire counts down when you log out, and maybe when you leave the area?

logging out resets the sluice box gravel, and changing time glitches the water/gravel sluice

changing time can also kill you, by removing your food and water, possibly heath too.

I sat there for about 5 mins almost, trying to kill a skelly, I gave up. stone javalin did nothing... (what it felt like)

I think thats the only weapon you can have in the start?

 

Yes I was on a server.

[munin295 18]

That's an interesting idea. Instead of producing random ores (panning) or local ores (sluices), they could produce ores from the specific gravel you use. If you want gold, pan/sluice diorite since it only has two ores (50% chance to get gold); phyllite, quartzite, schist, and slate would be good choices for copper (again, only two ores); etc.

 

As long as you keep providing gravel, there's no reason to keep track of chunk overworking since there's already a finite amount of gravel per chunk. It's game-balanced by the fact that you need to work to get the gravel.

[Hubertus 29]

I find this idea rather interesting. Instead of a sluice producing local ores, it produces ores according to the gravel you put in. However, the way sluices work now is that it only produces ores if there are veins in the area. You'd lose that believability aspect in exchange for a different one, namely producing ores that could exist in that stone type. It's a shame you can't tell the gravel what veins existed nearby, instead of just going off of possible spawns.

 

One major balancing thing this would change is the function of sluices. Previously, sluices were used for a small boost to your metal supplies, that eventually gets counteracted by you overworking all your nearby areas. Eventually, sluices lose their usefulness. With this change, a single sluice would remain forever useful, since you can just keep dumping gravel in it. While this helps late arivals to servers, this also creates an almost limitless supply of metal, so long as you can keep stuffing it full of gravel.

 

It would also bring about the reemergence of strip mines, with people creating great ugly pits to get at the gravel.

 

As to your other discussion points:

1. Unloading chunks generally causes what's happening in those chunks to freeze.

2. NEVER CHANGE THE TIME. A lot of calculations in TFC are time based. Changing the time causes an endless host of problems. The reason it's killing you is because time is never subtracted, only added. When you change time to day, you change it to the NEXT day. Time passes, and your hunger and hydration are updated by the passage of time. For a fun bug caused by changing the time, take a look at this.

3. See above

4. A javelin is a ranged weapon that causes piercing damage (just like arrows). Skeletons and wither skeletons have 100% resistance to piercing damage (it just goes right through). Try using a knife (weak, slashing damage), or a hammer (stronger, crushing damage). Skeletons are weak to crushing damage. Once you get metals, you can make the mace, a powerful crushing weapon. Even a copper mace can dispatch a skeleton in 3-4 blows.

5. In the stone age, you have access to: bow and arrow, javelin, knife, hammer, axe. Once you can smelt copper, you gain access to the sword and mace, which are stronger than the knife, hammer, and axe in terms of melee damage.

[Higgins909 0]

That's a bit of a bumber about chaning time, I dont like the dark that much XD

I didn't know that about weapons.  I heard hammers where more dammage, but I didnt think a javelin would do nothing to it.

If I had map writer, it would be easy to keep track of chunks that i've used/have prospected, but its only 1.7.2 :/

what do you do to keep track?

 

I'm not sure I would care too much, if they made it a bit harder for gravel to have a chance of materials, if they made it work like that.

but I bet a few here have been diving for gravel right? its not all that easy.

 

I was wanting to Gold Rush it up (tv show), but found it don't work like that.

I'm finding it hard to get enough copper yet, to leave the sluice boxes for mining.

[munin295 18]

You can safely change the time by using the /debugmode command to reveal "skip time" buttons in the calendar tab. I've never had a problem with using "/time add <value>" but I think the buttons are preferred.

I use MapWriter. There are versions for 1.7.10 -- just google "mapwriter 1.7.10".

[Higgins909 0]

speaking of slucing, while using the box, its very hard to find copper? but I can pan right next to it and find copper fairly easy? i've found some other stuff like gems, but not copper :/ which I need.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

speaking of slucing, while using the box, its very hard to find copper? but I can pan right next to it and find copper fairly easy? i've found some other stuff like gems, but not copper :/ which I need.

 

That's because the gold pan gives you native ores no matter what is actually in the area. The sluice will only give you ores if there is a vein of that ore nearby.

[munin295 18]

The gold pan doesn't care what ores are in the vicinity, it just has a random chance to return certain ores -- and copper is the most probable.

The sluice only returns ores which are in the (large) vicinity, so if you're not getting copper it may be because there isn't any around. Gravel has a higher chance to return ores and sand has a higher chance to return gems.

Edit: ninja'd

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I understand that people have different play styles, so I am curious why so much emphasis on the sluice. When I am ready to move into copper age, all I need to do is gold pan for 200 units of copper, enough for the pickaxe and prospector pick. By that time I already know where to find copper and is easy to start mining, or at least to mine enough ores for my next tools. Please, this is not a critic, I am really curious to understand your play style.

[Pwnlord 38]

Sluice yards are low effort, high output. That's why people use them. Set up a dozen sluiceboxen, keep them topped up, receive freebies.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Sluice yards are low effort, high output. That's why people use them. Set up a dozen sluiceboxen, keep them topped up, receive freebies.

 

Which is exactly why the chunk limit was implemented.

[Higgins909 0]

Which is exactly why the chunk limit was implemented.

Low effort? high output? Freebies?!?!? yeah right...

going to mine gravel is just about as hard as mining copper...

with sluice boxes I'm lucky if I can get 4 items b4 the chunk is useless... and thats where you filling em up emptying em finding more gravel, finding new chunks.

 

Sorry but the chunk limit system its just silly.

 

the output of the sluices could be nerfed.

right now, ive been taking a break, as I found it silly hard to find copper.

 

what is wrong with the idea of having to go get different types of gravel, bring it back to the sluice base, and process it?

sounds pretty relistic/fun/right to me.

[Regnilse 21]

what is wrong with the idea of having to go get different types of gravel, bring it back to the sluice base, and process it?

sounds pretty relistic/fun/right to me.

 

I agree that it would be believable and fun, but unfortunately I don't think the gravel can store that kind of information.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

going to mine gravel is just about as hard as mining copper...

with sluice boxes I'm lucky if I can get 4 items b4 the chunk is useless... and thats where you filling em up emptying em finding more gravel, finding new chunks.

 

Sorry but the chunk limit system its just silly.

 

the output of the sluices could be nerfed.

right now, ive been taking a break, as I found it silly hard to find copper.

 

what is wrong with the idea of having to go get different types of gravel, bring it back to the sluice base, and process it?

sounds pretty relistic/fun/right to me.

 

Mining gravel is pretty much the easiest thing, considering there is a layer of it at least 1 thick between the dirt and the stone below you. You never have to travel to get gravel except for when you've already cleared out the area.

 

You are having a hard time finding copper because it's likely you are doing it wrong. For one, you should be using a gold pan for copper, not a sluice. Secondly, has it maybe occurred to you to actually explore? Go walk around and find a surface stone type that can actually spawn copper, and I'll bet you'll pretty quickly be swimming in it. It is not uncommon to travel 10,000 blocks in one direction to find something specific in TFC, and that isn't going to change any time soon. If you don't like exploring, perhaps this mod isn't for you.

 

The problem with making sluices stationary and being able to feed them different gravel types is that it gets rid of the ability to use the sluice as a prospecting tool, which was kind of the original point of it.

[lordbufu 7]

Low effort? high output? Freebies?!?!? yeah right...

going to mine gravel is just about as hard as mining copper...

with sluice boxes I'm lucky if I can get 4 items b4 the chunk is useless... and thats where you filling em up emptying em finding more gravel, finding new chunks.

 

Sorry but the chunk limit system its just silly.

 

the output of the sluices could be nerfed.

right now, ive been taking a break, as I found it silly hard to find copper.

 

what is wrong with the idea of having to go get different types of gravel, bring it back to the sluice base, and process it?

sounds pretty relistic/fun/right to me.

 

Gravel is rather easy to get tbh, i dont see this being equall to mining copper at all.

 

Chunk limits are there for people like me, that spend way to much time (and have way to much time) trying to find ways around things to get freebies.

 

I agree that it would be believable and fun, but unfortunately I don't think the gravel can store that kind of information.

 

Depending on how the code is writen, the gravel doesnt really need to store the info, much like sand as long as it stores the stone type it came from the sluice code itself could be the one telling the sluice to yield ore X while gravel type Y is used.

 

Anyways iff been away for to long, just started on build 79 yesterady, i thought sluices were removed/disabled in build 78.4 in order to be fully rewriten. To many notes to read to catch up on all minor changes for me atm.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

i thought sluices were removed/disabled in build 78.4 in order to be fully rewriten.

 

They were, but with enough forum members yelling "WHERE'S THE SLUICE?!" Bioxx decided to just rewrite enough of it so it worked with the new fresh/salt water, and add the chunk limit to stop it from being so OP. It does still need a full rewrite.

[lordbufu 7]

They were, but with enough forum members yelling "WHERE'S THE SLUICE?!" Bioxx decided to just rewrite enough of it so it worked with the new fresh/salt water, and add the chunk limit to stop it from being so OP. It does still need a full rewrite.

 

 

Ah that explains it tnx.

 

PS:  stole your quotetextpost for my signature, i could not resist it, it was just to damn nice ><

[Bioxx 796]

To be honest the idea of gravel giving whatever is relevant to that stone type is appealing. As has been stated above, you would lose the ability to prospect with the sluice but this does honestly seem more believable. That said if I were to do this, I would most certainly alter the amount of metal received from 10 units per item to 1 unit just to balance it more. I would probably also try to figure out some way to make sluice farming less ideal. I'll ponder on it.

[Lithimis 0]

I have not read all the topics on sluicing, but I hope you do consider some changes. Right now, sluices are an awesome tool that I do not want to go through the trouble to use and dig channels everywhere to have it run for 5 mins for 3 pieces of ore. I see a sluce as a larger tool that I setup to run large amounts of sand or gravel through, maybe even dirt. I kind of feel if like it is backwards with sluicing and panning. I do understand that small sluices exist and have been used for prospecting, but we have gold pans for that. I would much rather travel around the with my gold pan testing out areas to find what ores are available, and then gathering up gravel or sand to bring back to my mining operation to run it through the sluice. Typically a structure would be built, and the dirt would be brought to the sluice to be ran which would result in the small particles being found. I think having the 1 unit drop slowly within the sluice would be fine. Having the gold pan to prospect with, returning nuggets (10 units) or flakes (1 unit) of the ore that is in the area, and then sluices return flakes .. maybe an extremely rare nugget that match the gravel or sand type to cooraspond with surrounding stone. Also, I believe 1 unit of gravel is worth 20 in the sluice, I think that could be reduced to 5, which requires more gravel to be ran through, and then create the 1 unit flakes of ore. I still have to travel around to find the different gravel types with the stone, so that still happens and it makes sluices fun and purposeful.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

I have not read all the topics on sluicing, but I hope you do consider some changes. Right now, sluices are an awesome tool that I do not want to go through the trouble to use and dig channels everywhere to have it run for 5 mins for 3 pieces of ore. I see a sluce as a larger tool that I setup to run large amounts of sand or gravel through, maybe even dirt. I kind of feel if like it is backwards with sluicing and panning. I do understand that small sluices exist and have been used for prospecting, but we have gold pans for that. I would much rather travel around the with my gold pan testing out areas to find what ores are available, and then gathering up gravel or sand to bring back to my mining operation to run it through the sluice. Typically a structure would be built, and the dirt would be brought to the sluice to be ran which would result in the small particles being found. I think having the 1 unit drop slowly within the sluice would be fine. Having the gold pan to prospect with, returning nuggets (10 units) or flakes (1 unit) of the ore that is in the area, and then sluices return flakes .. maybe an extremely rare nugget that match the gravel or sand type to cooraspond with surrounding stone. Also, I believe 1 unit of gravel is worth 20 in the sluice, I think that could be reduced to 5, which requires more gravel to be ran through, and then create the 1 unit flakes of ore. I still have to travel around to find the different gravel types with the stone, so that still happens and it makes sluices fun and purposeful.

 

I'm not quite sure if you are trying to suggest how you think the mechanic should work, or if you just don't understand how the mechanic actually works.

 

As the mechanic actually works, gold pans are not a prospecting tool, gold pans give ores based on a completely random chance that has nothing to do with the surrounding area. ONLY sluices are a prospecting tools.

[LiesTech 11]

Maybe flakes can only stack up to 64? With only one unit per you could only get 10 ingots using four vessels in a pit kiln and that's with pure metals. You could even make the stack limit 32 which would cap a pit kiln at 512 units when only using flakes and limit each one to a single bronze ingot, or equivalent. Plus even though you can use sluices for iron, you could say that it's 'to impure' for our tech level and so we can't get iron from a sluice.

 

I like the idea of gravel type based drops as I have never felt the need to prospect via sluice. I just walk around, look for nuggets and mine when I see what I am looking for; usually doesn't take long even on SMP.

 

Just my two cents and Happy New Year nine days ago,

 

LiesTech

 

Edit:

 

Or you could make the sluice that even captures flakes at a reasonable rate require iron riffles made from an iron grill.