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snaketokill

Make Horses less pointless and cooler

   33 members have voted

  1. 1. Horse yeah or Nayyy

    • leave horse alone they are fine
      9
    • add paints
      10
    • make the "horse" a mustang
      11
    • add the Clydesdale
      11
    • add paints but change the name
      4
    • add clydesdale (work horse) but rename it
      8
    • re think the sizes
      7
  2. 2. Carts and wagons

    • add cart
      24
    • add wagon
      26
    • add a animal/human cart (pulled by a horse, holds animals and people)
      19
    • add a cattle wagon
      18
    • dont do this
      0
    • add a carpentry skill to invole cart crafting
      14
  3. 3. Crafting a cart

    • add some kinda tool
      11
    • i have another idea
      9
    • i dont know
      13

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

21 posts in this topic

Personally I find horses lame and pointless in terrafirma because, to tame them it takes multiple days and lots of my food stores. So I wish they were more worth while. here are my ideas:

 

cart or wagon: the tfc inventory is tiny and, the only way to get around that is barrels so why not have a barrel cart/wagon to hold then? a cart would need 1 horse and a wagon would need 2!

 

different breeds: I feel like there should be 3 breeds of horses: Paints, Mustang, and Clydesdale. There should be a Paints (1.5 blocks tall) which is slower and cant be ridden(maybe scared of water?) and needs a friend to pull a cart and cant pull a wagon and is easily tamed. The normal/current horse (2 blocks tall) Mustang, 2 are needed for a wagon and 1 for a cart (please make it a bit faster). The Clydesdale (3 blocks tall) slow yet faster than a paint, carrys 2 people(if you want :P) pulls everything by its self(that means wagons)but is hard to tame.

 

this is all realistic, there are horses that big and strong and that small and weak.

 

cart could hold 6 barrels and wagons hold 15 (other numbers are acceptable), maybe add a cart that can hold people or animals (please I hate chickens because they are so far out).

 

please discuss the cart/wagon crafting method. 

 

you can also discuss if you want different saddles per horse because that makes cense...

 

please talk about any ideas relating the topic...and fill out the pole so dunk and bioxx can see.

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  • Carts are good, but no human powered carts.
  • Should be useful, but will be less so in rough terrain (definition of TFC terrain.)
  • Useful for trading and possibly setting up new outposts.
  • Issues: Oceans, Rivers, Bodies of water greater than one block deep, mountains, ravines, SP applicability, making new animal models (big time sink) and the potential for these to turn into flans vehicles as this is still MC.
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If this happens (and I doubt the time/reward ratio for the developers is rewarding enough for it to happen), crafting wagons and carts should be part of a bigger 'Carpentry' Skill, which would include much more than just carts. All sorts of wooden carpentry stuffs - could make barrels with it, boats, canoes, etc. It would have its own blocks and tools, like Smithing has the anvils and forges and all that jazz.

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- Increase inventory with vessels, a lot of items you pick up fit in vessels and this can quadruple your space. Kinda...

- If you can't find pigs, and you want to RP being French, you can use horse as a food source!

 

Carts would be interesting, but only viable on flat land  (player-made roads or plains). Oh, and have you tried pulling a fully loaded cart through a field in the rain. You wouldn't get very far. 

 

Also isn't there a cart type thing already... Donkey's with chests?

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True there are donkey chests but they are limited in what they can carry, I see carts as something that can carry all types of objects regardless of there size or weight.

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ok so I made an image in paint but I don't know how to upload it so if any one wants to tell me that would be great... but here is the main idea: its a new horse inv: in between the 3s and 4s is the inventory horse that follows the mouse. (developers please turn barrels on their side when on a horse so it looks better 

 

 212

3   3

3   3

4   4

 

legend:

1. armour or extra back slots

2. back or tool slot

3. 4 log slot or tool slot

4. ammo slot (arrow javelin) or stick slot (cant hold a quiver)

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I dug up a thing about wagons I wrote a few weeks(?) ago

 

Wagons can be used on the road, but be slower and (possibly, if mechanics allow) tire the animals faster and/or wear down the wheels/axle faster.

Rail-wagons(no idea what to call it) could be wagons used on rails, and be faster, and (again, if mechanics allow) tire the animals less and/or not wear down the wheels/axle as fast.

Also, since it goes along a pre-set rail, you won't need to worry about directions and it'll be a lot smoother journey then wagons.(simply put, you don't have to worry about getting distracted and driving into a tree, or off a cliff, or into the river.)

 

There could be 'normal' wagons for both player and item transport, passenger wagons, for player only transport, and item wagons, for item only transport.

'normal' wagons will carry less players/items then passenger or item wagons. All wagons will have two front seats for a driver and navigator/guard/whoever

 

You should be able to tie a few animals behind wagons(maybe just on item and/or 'normal' wagons)

 

To go deeper on the topic, wagons would be two blocks wide, three and a half blocks long and one and a half blocks tall, not counting the horse & harness.

The main body of the wagon, where you load the items/players sit will be roughly three blocks long, and there will be a half-block-length-ish seat in front of the wagon for the driver(and possibly one more person)

 

A 'normal' wagon will have four cargo slots and two passenger seats.

A passenger wagon will have 6 passenger seats, and a item wagon will have 6 cargo slots.

Each cargo slot will basically be like a single block, holding one chest, one ingot pile, one barrel, one large vessel, or four pottery.

 

 

Wagons should be able to go up a full block, but going up a full block should slow down the wagon very much(not a problem with the rail-wagon though), and(if possible) wear down the wheels/axle and tire the animals faster.

Going down more than a full block should be possible, but very costly as you won't be able to go back, and it should be very damaging to the wagon, animal, and whatever is on the wagon(maybe have some items/barrels/vessels spill out? Minor damage or falling out of their seats for players?)

 

So while you could use wagons without a road, making a road will be much advised and better, especially for places you frequent. And obviously, you'll need bridges to cross rivers.

 

 

I like the idea of a 'carpentry' skill. That would allow us to make certain things without trying to fit everything into a 3x3 block or using tons of crafting recipes for every piece we need or something. 

The body of the wagon could be made using carpentry and several planks.

I think wheels should be separate, and slowly wear down with use. There would be a wooden wheel, very basic and lowest speed, but made with wood on the carpentry bench, and metal wheels made on a anvil which would be faster and have more durability.

If a wheel wears down and breaks, the wagon will stop, and need a new wheel before it can move again.

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I really like the idea of wagons/carts, but the amount of effort required would be too steep IMO. Maybe as a plugin or separate Forge mod if someone has the time and skill.

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personally I want this for the idea of moving salt water from the ocean to my house and am willing to flatten the terrain from the ocean to my base. I also would be cool with it for bringing new livestock home 

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ok so ive edited the main horse inv to make more sense, if any devs want it you may have the file just tell me how but it runs on a new idea.

 

the horse cant pull a cart/wagon unless it has the correct equipment (each horse has different equipment based on what size it is (big horse cant use a small horse thing) except for saddles,

 

 

12321

1   1  4 

1   1

5   5

 

1 is a log or tool slot (don't work with armor or blanket)

2 is a back slot  (don't work with armor)

3 is a saddle slot (don't work with cart plate)

4 is where the inv type goes (armor blanket cart plate)

5 is an ammo slot for the armor only

 

I think this is a better inv, if you want the old one just say so or if you don't want to do anything that's ok (but id rather you didn't) or just make your own

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personally I want this for the idea of moving salt water from the ocean to my house and am willing to flatten the terrain from the ocean to my base. I also would be cool with it for bringing new livestock home 

 

Moving water sources is exclusively for once players have reached red steel. Features will not likely be implemented to let you do that before reaching that tech level.

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personally I want this for the idea of moving salt water from the ocean to my house and am willing to flatten the terrain from the ocean to my base. I also would be cool with it for bringing new livestock home 

 

 

Moving water sources is exclusively for once players have reached red steel. Features will not likely be implemented to let you do that before reaching that tech level.

 

I think this is referring to being able to carry larger quantities (multiple barrels) of salt water on a cart.

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I mean I need salt water for brine and I hate the hike

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The framework for individual abilities within animals is all there, and for the most part is already implemented. Animals have their own stats relating to size, strength, endurance, aggressiveness etc. At the moment, it's mostly randomized, with a bias towards the average, but you can always find the odd weak or strong animal if you look. Speciation wouldn't be too difficult- if I skewed the "normal" values for certain types of animals, it would probably behave like different breeds of horses existed. It's perfectly possible to breed your own species for whatever purpose you want, (well you could if there was anything those stats would actually do aside from sit there), but I do think there is an appeal to having certain abilities crop up geographically rather than completely at random as it is now. Either way, I don't know if I like bringing real breeds of horses into TFC. I'm not an expert on horses and I feel that it just limits us too much. I'd rather have a "work horse" breed or a "race horse" breed- if you want to call it a clydesdale in your head, I have no problem with that, but I'd prefer to keep things general.

 

Adding uses for animals is always something to be looked at. I can't guarantee when or how it would happen, but it's definitely on the to-do list for some point. Thanks for posting.

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I like to think a less whimsical version of Simply Horses would fit well in the way TFC currently works. It's not overly complex with breeding like Mo Creatures, gives a purpose other than speed, and the taming/equipment balance out the improvements they provide (at least by vanilla standards, the suggested specialized carpentry would fit TFC more). Avi stopped developing several versions ago, so it's probably safe to draw inspiration from it. I haven't seen a decent land-transport mod like it since.

 

The only real issue I see with it is that the horse instantly becomes a breed when attached with its breed equipment. I prefer Dunkle's idea where the stats could trend in one of three directions based on breeding: Workhorse (high strength), Racehorse (high speed), and Warhorse (high health/def) would probably be enough to cover all the bases. Any larger number of breeds would just be fluff.

 

As Allen mentioned: speed, road requirements and animal upkeep would probably keep things in balance. But if larger wagon types feel overpowered, a config option could be added which makes the player more easily overburdened to compensate (an option since many people like having all that space). We have quite a lot of storage options, so I feel that sort of rebalancing would force us to plan out caches, road design, and placement of mansio on travel routes; as well as make minecarts an actual requirement in large-scale mining. I imagine that this would incidentally increase the importance of trade in multiplayer servers, since it would be harder to make/move large amounts of things by yourself. This sort of overlaps with this thread, but the two seem to go together. I sincerely don't know if you can separate more stringent overburdening from large transport without unbalancing the game to be either too hard or too easy. That would obviously be up to your judgement and playtesting whenever you get around to such a feature.

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If we ever get animal pulled wagons, I propose a change so players with barrels in their backs are unable to run. No need to slow down, being unable to run is already a hefty penalty. Also if possible a mechanic that would automatically drop the barrel if the player is hit by a mob or try to fight. It makes no sense to fight a zombie with a barrel on your back. In this scenery the player function is more to protect the wagon.

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So the roads,would they have to be chiselled into increments using the slab function? Would this add dirt as something that could be used as a road, and if it is, could the dirt "erode" under the tracks like using a chisel on them so that rutting occurs. This would provide a pretty good system of road maintainance I believe. Yes that could be difficult to maintain with large road networks, but then you could replace it with cobble which wouldn't experience these effects or at least not to the same degree as the packed dirt roads.

 

Also, would the player be able to ride on the cargo wagons so that they have more control over it. Another player could follow as the guard.

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Nice idea - the different "breeds" of horses, and carts/wagons.I wonder why the dislike for hman-powered carts - these have been around for centuries.Maybe call paints ponies - paint to me (a European) is something I smear on walls :)

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If carts and wagons ect are added, they could add an excellent new tech tree branch. I would suggest that if this was to be implemented, it should be done properly as it would add a new skill. A Wheelwright is a trade that sees the construction and repair of wheels. In the process, wood must be steamed in a steaming box so it can later be bent into a circular shape. Spokes would also then need to be crafted. Once the many spokes, and different sections of the inner wood wheel are joined together, a metal band would then need to be heated so it expands, and then placed around the outside of the wood wheel. As the metal band cools, it needs to be beaten so it is all even. This leaves the metal band being nice and tight around the wood, keeping it all together. Of course the metal band would need to be worked and shaped before it is to be used.

 

My only issue with this is that i see it as fitting in with mechanical power......   

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The framework for individual abilities within animals is all there, and for the most part is already implemented. Animals have their own stats relating to size, strength, endurance, aggressiveness etc. At the moment, it's mostly randomized, with a bias towards the average, but you can always find the odd weak or strong animal if you look. Speciation wouldn't be too difficult- if I skewed the "normal" values for certain types of animals, it would probably behave like different breeds of horses existed. It's perfectly possible to breed your own species for whatever purpose you want, (well you could if there was anything those stats would actually do aside from sit there), but I do think there is an appeal to having certain abilities crop up geographically rather than completely at random as it is now. Either way, I don't know if I like bringing real breeds of horses into TFC. I'm not an expert on horses and I feel that it just limits us too much. I'd rather have a "work horse" breed or a "race horse" breed- if you want to call it a clydesdale in your head, I have no problem with that, but I'd prefer to keep things general.

 

Adding uses for animals is always something to be looked at. I can't guarantee when or how it would happen, but it's definitely on the to-do list for some point. Thanks for posting.

 

*Yawns and looks around* How odd... I don't recognize this place, and yet it feels... familiar. Like home.Well, at least my bro is here :V And speaking of which...You didn't tell me you added animal stats? Come on man, that so cool! Why haven't you done anything with them since, you could have animals interacting organically with the environment! Tie strength to jump height - tall areas will have only stronger animals! And if you add natural breeding, you'll practically end up with speciation naturally occurring - animals with low aggression stats will fare poorly in areas with lots of predators, so you won't find them. Weak animals will fall off cliffs and not be able to reascend, so you won't find them on mountaintops or plateaus. Large animals need to eat more, so you can't find any in barren lands.Man, there's so much you could do with these stats! Hop to it, squire!

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This is really a nice thread...

I would like to emphasize what has only so far been hinted at.   If domesticated animals like horses are going to be at all useful as beasts of burden in a believable and gameplay-relevant way (basically being useful for anything other than food like things are now), there need to be alterations to inventory, big time.  There is no avoiding this.  As things are, you can pretty much carry a mountain in your inventory, making pointless anything like carts (human-powered or otherwise) other than for trivial convenience or cool-factor.  If inventory was much more limited, then the use of animal (and/or human) drawn/pushed carriages/carts/sleds would actually be useful!  I know people will groan at this, but, frankly, I think this would add an awesome facet to gameplay and survival, not tedium.  Just look at other games like Project Zomboid as to how to do this in a (in my opinion) fantastic way!

If machinery is ever implemented, perhaps horses and the like can be used to power things (though I can't think of anything machinery would be useful for right now, since human power and time is not fundamentally limiting in anything).

For wheels... I love the idea davova had!  However, I think metal shouldn't be required.  All-wood wagons, chariots, etc. were made to great effect throughout history, though an artificial constraint could be a way to force "tech progression" (as much as I personally hate such material constraints about this mod...).  I also love AllenWL's idea about wheels wearing down.  That said, I think wear on wheels and other components is what roads should help reduce.  Also, I do not think metal wheels should be necessarily better than wooden ones.  Wheels were predominantly made of wood because (probably among other things) wood is light, though they could have metal tyers for increasing durability.

Thinking a bit further on this... Donutglaze mentioned something about wagons and how to balance them.  Perhaps building wagons and carts should follow something similar to Cuchaz's boats mod in terms of having some sort of way of constructing carts of whatever dimensions you want and determining physical characteristics... in this way, things could be balanced in a believable, non-arbitrary way.  For example, if you make a big cart, it will have more mass, and therefore require more wheels and animals to move at a given speed with given wear-and-tear.  And if you choose to make something out of one material vs. another, it will factor into the wagon's mass among other things, naturally guiding the player to favoring the use of lighter materials in general. (this probably belongs in another thread...)...

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