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Fulcrum

Flint changes

13 posts in this topic

In the stone age flint was a much sought after resource. 

In the UK there were Grimes Graves where neolithic miners mined in chalk for flint. This flint would be traded all across the UK and possibly into europe. Even after the discovery of metal, miners would still work here for flint being cheaper and easier to acquire than the metal.

They would use deer antler for mining.

 

I'm proposing/suggesting the following.

 

For gravel to no longer drop flint and just occasionally drop rocks.

 

Then for the implementation of bone/antler tools, these can only dig sedimentary rock slowly and metamorphic even slower, not being able to touch igneous rock. The slow speed of metamorphic digging means one can only reasonably use it to harvest individual pieces and not go seeking ores or dig too deep.

 

Then for flint nodules to spawn as blocks in veins inside different rock types (chert and chalk ), these would have the hardness of metamorphic rock but drop several pieces of flint on breaking. 

Flint could then be knapped into something harder and faster than igneous tools but less durable than metal tools. One could also make it more likely to cause collapse to avoid people being underground bases with it, limiting them to pits or quarries.

 

This would provide players who wish to stay in the stone age more options for tools and would provide early metal players with a more expanded tools set and allow them a means of gathering stone/cobble for primitive building or foundations. Bone tools could also be used as a means of gathering early copper similar to or be an alternative to the gold panning.

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Welcome to the Forums.

 

Flint tools were actually the primary tools when TFC first started. They were initially phased out back in v2 Build 40, being replaced by stone tools, and were completely removed v2 Build 47c for a handful of reasons.

 

http://terrafirmacraft.com/change_log_archive.html

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I really like your idea, I would like to have the stone age extended.

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I don't know if flint mining should be implemented, because chert is flint, but I do agree that gravel should no longer drop flint, and should just drop rocks. I also heartily agree that the stone age needs to be extended/fleshed out because in tfc the stone age is fairly bland and is nothing more than a rush for copper, and I would like to change that.

The stone age has gotten a pretty bad rep as primitive, dull and crude, but was actually much more more advanced than commonly thought of. Stone age people had  extensive trading, crafting and art, as well as having fairly complex architectural designs in many of their cultures. This all is much more complex than what you can do in the tfc stone age. Another part of this is in tfc rocks are incredibly easy to find, and having a near infinite supply is effortless. I don't want this changed too much, but I think it would be better to have to look around at least a little bit for rocks.

Copper should not be as good as a material, because while in tfc copper is just like other metals, just with poor stats,  in real life copper is such a bad material the copper age, or chalcolithic era, is grouped more with the stone age than with metal, if it is even considered its own era at all, due to the large lack of advancement it caused.

 

 

Because of this I think copper tools should have a major nerf, like perhaps taking much longer to mine, doing less damage etc.

 

It would make sense  for copper to not be able to be cast into more advanced tools, because copper is not strong enough, nor can hold an edge well enough, to be made into advanced tools at all, something like a sword is way out of the question, these were invented in the bronze age. They should only be able to be made into the same tools as with the stone age, except for maybe scythes, and hoes should get the full use (this is because copper irl is strong enough for these, and in tfc they do not cause a large balance change).

 

Maybe with the upcoming body temperature it could be more difficult to get started with copper or at least  bronze without a settlement and/or shelter, so you might have to build up a small farm or a shelter before you start any real metal working.

 

One way to have this might be to make bronze smelting more difficult, whether by needing more than a simple hole in the ground and grass and logs (the pit kiln we have now), or perhaps needing charcoal, or any other time consuming activity to start bronze making.

 

Said time consuming thing could also be the pit kiln having a nerf. The pit kiln we have now could only be able to cook clay bricks (which I'll get to in a sec), and casts (if there are any other clay based things it should be able to fire, it should be able to do that as well), basically it is just for firing clay.

 

To melt bronze and copper you would have to build a smelter multiblock with these clay bricks, like a bloomery or blast furnace, that would melt the metals. This smelter multiblock could be something built like the bloomery without the bronze doors and made out of clay bricks. Placing the clay vessels in the bottom and some wood like in the pit kiln would melt the bronze.

 

The reason it should be time consuming is because,  in real life, the main reason people progressed out of the stone age (as I understand it), or at least into more advanced societies, was because of farming, which let them not have to spend all their time getting food, so they could spend time advancing (and killing each other).

 

Said time consuming thing could  also require some sort of farming, because without it, you would not be able to hunt and gather, as this would take up too much time, so you would have to get the basic farming before you get to the metal age, thereby prolonging the stone age.

Yes, I know this would require large balance changes. The way I see it, all we would really have to do is (for the most part), replace copper with bronze.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To summarize: tfc handles copper unrealistically, and this should be fixed by nerfing copper and replacing it, for the most part, with bronze. The other part of the problem is that both bronze, and especially copper, happen way too fast, and the stone age is not nearly as fun as it should be. (bit of a rant here, but I think the first couple days/night should be survivorman/bear grylls sort surviving, the next couple night should be hunter gathering, and the next few should be starting a farm, then starting with metals).

 

A solution to this problem would be to make the process of the bronze creation more difficult and time consuming, so unless you build a farm in the stone age you will probably end up probably starving, thereby extending the stone age. The example of the clay bricks I gave was just for example.

 

 

But wait. I know what you're going to say. The goal of tfc is "believability" not realism. Well, honestly, I think realism is what makes a LOT of people enjoy tfc (which believability is undoubtably part of), including myself. It also has other benefits, like being able to learn from video games, which i think is awesome. The other point is, everything that is realistic is believable, but not everything believable is realistic, so the surefire way to make something believable is to make it realistic. I understand that pure unregulated realism would be bad, but I would much rather have something realistic than not.

 

Note: this idea with copper and stuff was still kind of in beta, but I saw this thread and I wanted to post it here as is. I hope you guys can understand it and like it.

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One huge thing that I've pointed out before in other threads complaining about the length of the stone age: We're not forcing you to rush for copper. It is the player's decision to go for copper tools ASAP, and no matter what bottlenecks we put in place, players are still going race for that first pickaxe. If you want a longer stone age, then stop making a copper pickaxe as soon as you possibly can and just linger in the stone age for a while.

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Yeah If you ant to make the stone age last longer its Your Choice. You can build farms. Make rooms for storage/water. and make defences (wooden walls). So yeah don't ask to make it longer you can make it longer

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One huge thing that I've pointed out before in other threads complaining about the length of the stone age: We're not forcing you to rush for copper. It is the player's decision to go for copper tools ASAP, and no matter what bottlenecks we put in place, players are still going race for that first pickaxe. If you want a longer stone age, then stop making a copper pickaxe as soon as you possibly can and just linger in the stone age for a while.

While I agree to a large extent (we are nearing the first winter on our new server and the only metal we've used so far is a single saw), I do think that game design affects how people will play and appreciate a game. I mean, in vanilla minecraft you can say that it's believable too, it might not have gravity but if you don't break dirt you'll never notice ;)

I realize that's not to the extent you mean here, and as said I agree that you can affect it quite a lot deliberately, but mechanics inform play.

 

I mean, we're four people nearing the first winter, we've deliberately chosen a seed that has a lack of metal, we've gone around quite far in search of crops etc and built up three decently sized buildings, collected fruit trees, herded pigs etc. We've really really tried to make the stone age last, and in addition all the other players are completely new to TFC so they have had to learn everything from scratch. But despite that, there just isn't much to do anymore besides advancing. The amount of things one can build from gravel and logs is limited, after all.

The reason why people rush to the first copper is because it's generally really really easy to get, and it generally opens up an enormous amount of new options. You don't see people rushing from copper/bronze to steel to nearly the same extent, because it's more work and doesn't expand one's options as much (main difference would be movement of water).

 

I do think there are a few simple (from a gameplay and design perspective; I have no idea about the coding) ways that could change how people feel about the stone age, and that would allow one to do a lot more while still encouraging progress, for example:

- Splitting logs into 1/4th pieces (8x8x16 pixels) with axe+hammer would allow for stairs and basic furniture (right now the only way not to jump everywhere is using half-made pit kilns or piles of charcoal, which is... weird)

- Being able to put down tools on the ground, or some other way of storing tools before the tool rack

- Making support beams with the axe

- Occacional (quite rare) boulders that are basically a standard stone block lying around on dirt (and thus you're able to take it with you)- Some way to fish proper fish during the stone age

- Simple skin "drapery" or whatchamacallit that can be used as a door, that does not block movement but mobs won't pathfind through it (similar to how adjacent fences work.

- Stone age access to ropeOn the long term there are several other things I'd love to see for the stone age:- Bone crafting, either similar to knapping or a new system

- Sewing, using bone needles and string or jute

- A travois to allow one to carry more stuff by dragging it after oneself.

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The reason why people rush to the first copper is because it's generally really really easy to get, and it generally opens up an enormous amount of new options. You don't see people rushing from copper/bronze to steel to nearly the same extent, because it's more work and doesn't expand one's options as much (main difference would be movement of water).

 

Yep. Couldn't have said it better myself

 

We can artificially extend the stone age, but why should we? It doesn't help us much (if at all), getting orchards and herding pigs is only a way to have more fun playing a game the way it's not making you play, actually, going directly against what the game wants us to to do.  

 

I don't want to pretend the game is better than it is, I want the game to BE better than it is.

 

 

But back to topic.

 

Again, flint is chert, so I was thinking that there could be pockets of flint/chert (like vanilla gravel) in sedimentary/metamorphic rocks. But flint/chert is igneous. Which bone antlers (rightfully) can't touch, so this could be coupled with fire-setting to get rocks out of the flint/chert

 

     

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You read my post. You liked my post. Yet you ignored it to get one last word in. Please keep this on topic of suggestion and post the rest in the appropriate thread.

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Yes, good idea. The stone age does need something to liven it up. At least a little. Make it terribly inefficient with resources, yes, but please. I really can only do so much before I have to go for metal at least to some extent. Then all there is left is more metal and frankly I've done most everything in the smithing  system, while it is interesting for 15-20 hours of gameplay (good job on that), it seems to be the only section that merits such attention and has received such obvious TLC, with the food system being a close second. Yes, it is absolutely brilliant, but I would like something else just as well done. Cooking may soon become the second, with soups, stews and (please) baking in earthen ovens.

 

In conclusion give serious consideration to suggestions like this one (which seems a good way to placate unwilling SP Smiths), but could provide a bridge into introducing a new lifestyles. Namely The Nomad and The Savage.

 

Thank you, Liestech

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As this is just going to continue to go off topic, break posting rules and serve no value to the original suggestion I am locking it. To continue, the fully understandable, debate that is developing please go to the thread both Djakuta and I linked.

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