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TonyLiberatto

Move from Cauldron to Forge What Admin tools are needed, How to get there and How can you Help.

32 posts in this topic

As suggested by Bunsan this tread is a spin off of THIS , The main focus here should be ideas on how to adapt existinf Forge tools and or create new tools that would allow server admins to effectively run a modded public server and at the same time protect players with antigrieff tools. So please if you are a server Owner or admin list here the plugins you use, what are they for also what would be the minimum setup needed to run the server.

As for Darkagecraft this is my plugin list:

AcceptRules.jar   Force players to accept the server rules before they can interact with the world
Announcer.jar     Create and Broadcast Messages to all player
ChangeMessage.jar   Just a way to change default messages on death or join or kick
ChunkFixer.jar            Very important tool that can be used to fix a defective chunk or just revert it to the original state.
DeathMessages.jar    Just funny messages when a player dies.
Dynmap-Towny-HEAD.jar   A integration between Dynmap and Towny so you can see the existing towns and some info about then on the Web interface on Dynmap.
Dynmap-WorldGuard-0.70.jar  Same as abovve but for World Guard
DynmapCBBridge-HEAD.jar   Just a bridge for CraftBukkit and Cauldron servers.
Essentials.jar            So many things I cant even start  saying how we need it.
EssentialsAntiBuild.jar             same
EssentialsChat.jar                  same
EssentialsGeoIP.jar                same
EssentialsGroupManager.jar       It possible to create groups with different permissions inside the server, is a must
EssentialsProtect.jar
EssentialsSpawn.jar
Lockette.jar                         even with Towny protection sometimes players need a additional layer and lockette gives that
MCBans.jar                        A very important plugin, So if a player got banned from another server it goes in a database and that info is accessible to admins.
OfflineTeleporter-0.4.jar    Sometimes a player will get stuck in a corrupted chunk, with this tool we can teleport the player on next login and then fix the chunk
PluginManager.jar             A handy way to load and  unload plugins without the need to restart the server.
Questioner.jar                   A plugin that integrates into other plugins to allow questioning a player when for example asking someone too join a town.
SimpleLinks.jar                  A usefull way to shorten links and broadcast to all players
TakeaNumber.jar              Sometimes a Admin is not online, so a player can create a ticket that will be handle by the next admin who logs into the server
Towny.jar                           Main plugin, It protects all player buildings against grieff and even accidents, like fire or explosion. 
TownyChat.jar                   It makes possible for player to chat in town or nation mode so to not clutter the server with chat that is not intended for general
WorldBorder.jar                 It creates a limit on the size of the world. Limiting the file size for the server.  
WorldEdit.jar                      A tool for creating and editing the world around. Some plugins depend on this to work
prism-2.0.4.ja                    Logs all block placement and destruction soo it can be seen by all players and revert by admins.
 
Once again thank you for the attention and remember the main rule of this forum, Only help if you can be helpfull
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In addition to the ones above:Donations plugin would be good.Permissions to handle the nodes and groups would be good.

A random teleport module, maybe a part of the essentials plugin utilizing world border too.Something to better control lag causing issues (NoLagg/ClearLag)Open Inventory (ability to see others' inv in game instead of as NBT)

An Item Ban Manager (ItemRestrict)

A scoreboard module system showing server rankings for stats

Vanish (staff invis for investigating)

Vault (or currency 'standardizer')

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Besides D3Log (which is an upcoming Forge logging mod a la Prism), I would like to help by making a lot of the simple things, but I don't really know where to start.

I would love some priorities, so I made this to help. DM me an email address and I will let you edit this.

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I know that a lot of plugins add nice features and make life easier for those running the server, but they are not critical. Obviously you can live without announcements (which you may be able to replicate with slow clock and command block). Chat plugin isn't needed for server function, but are important for players. It would be good to perhaps group them up into critical, important and nice to have.

I'd start with absolute key plugins. I know things such as towny and LWC/lockette add a lot of options and control, but if a forge prism is available although you can't stop people from doing things, but you do have the logs.

In cauldron environment is prism able to rollback worldgen ores? I know that WorldEdit regen command does not. If it is able to restore ores as well this is viable way to deal with corrupted chunks.

I know essentials well. As you said it does a ton of stuff, so I'm curious what critical functions are you using? If permission nodes, what are you using permissions to control? Are you using teleportation function? Spawn protection? A lot of essential functions could be split into tiny mods.

@Dries007 I think a simple mod that would be a good start would be a ban aggregator. MCBans is the one I have most experience with. Basically when a player logs onto server it queries the MCBans DB and if player has registered ban it announces in chat (would normally output only in a staff channel). It also provides further tools to more specifically query the DB, although we always used web interface to do that. If a player is banned on a server (might be linked to essentials command) that logs the ban on MCBans. I'm not actually sure how it blacklists players who have been banned, it may be the vanilla blacklist. We used this in conjunction with a plugin called fishbans.com which collected bans from the major ban systems. It has developed a lot since I used it and seems to have an API that may help.

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@Bunsan that api looks useful, that is most of the work done right there :P

A mod using fishbans.com would not be able to report bans to any of the subsystems, but it would be very simple and quick.

You could just set a policy (0 tolerance, only count mcbans, ...)  in the config and just refuse logins if you aren't on an exemption list. Or just send a warning to an admin.

 

How does that sound?

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Sounds good. I'm not sure if that API provides a method to register bans with a ban system though. I'll try and find time to look at the API myself.

 

For a chat mod I did find https://github.com/Mumfrey/ImprovedChat

 

Hasn't been touched for a year and as Mumfrey says in the readme the code ain't pretty, but he cleaned it up as best he could. It is a liteloader mod and I don't have the appropriate dev environment setup to look at it at all. However it may be a start as well.

 

Previously I had used the Bukkit Plugin HeroChat to organize different chat channels and we included TabbyChat client side mod to help players organize the chat channel display.

 

Currently I'm working on going through the forge essentials stuff as the basic permission system is going to be key and I haven't even tried to use it since 1.5. So many small plugins are linked into the permissions tree to control who can do what. Unless the mods include a permission node system (I know Opis does) a permission system will be needed to allow only staff to use certain functionality of admin mods.

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Just came across http://servertools.info which is a suite of modules that so far have teleport, backup and permissions along with a core. It seems to be trying to replicate a lot of Essentials. I haven't tried it yet, but might be worth a poke. Seems to indicate that it can run in SSP as well for easy testing.

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We talked about FE and MyTown2 in the thread this discussion started in. The comment was that FE wasn't functional at the moment. I haven't used it since early 1.6.4 and at that time was less than impressed with it and its horrific documentation. MyTown2 is on the verge of Beta so hopefully it will soon be an option for production servers.

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@Bunsan Just so you know: I was part of FE then, and most of the lack of documentation might have been my fault :P

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we are using my towns 2 right now on my server. it seems to run just fine with a few config tweaks.

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 Mytown2  gave me the impression, since it uses a Myessentials core that it is incompatible with FE at least when I try they did not liked to work together.

 

One of the things I liked about Bukkit plugins is how they worked together, Like how Towny uses Groupmanager permissions and Dynmap displays towns and info about then.

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@Dries007 Um ah, well this is embarrassing. Documentation for mods is never stellar. Can't say I was very good at documenting things in my field. Please don't stop working on stuff :P I can't actually code, just tell people what to code. Seriously though I am willing to help with some of the documentation of things. My schedule is always tight and erratic, but I'm willing to do what I can, even if just proofreading/correcting.

FE was a hell of a large project with not a huge amount of support from the community. Seems like it was always trying to hit a moving target as well. Rumour has it that Forge might be doing something with permissions natively so I'm sure that will make a lot of work for those doing FE. Sadly the admin tools never seem to get the attention they deserve and so people focus on making other content mods. With everyone holding out for sponge and regaining access to Bukkitesque plugins I'm not hopeful for a lot of progress on more. Seems to be changing a bit with people like ProfMobius. It is unfortunate because these tools do amazing things behind the scenes on servers. I've never been as impressed with a mod/plugin as I was when helping to beta test Prism and Opis. In one evening we went from explaining to Blood what we needed MCPC+ to let Prism do, to him adding functionality such that you could rollback every mod item with NBT tags still in place. Nothing like watching your base, which was running full tilt, nuked only to have it reappear still running a minute later.

@rhodance Good to know it is working well. JadedCat was actually asking if anyone had tested it out on twitter the other day.

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snip

 

I started of doing small plugin like mods on the mc forums (homes, warps, crafting table command, enderchest command, virtual chest, .....). At some point AbrarSyed (the guy who makes ForgeGradle/GMCP nowadays) invitted me into the FE team because he had made a framework for permissions and data structures, but had no content. I then added a metric fuckton of (horribly coded) features without much documentation, because they were mostly taken from my smaller command mods, and I didn't want to write docs again.

 

Just a quick sidenote: By this time I had 2 months of java experience, and was 15 yo. My only other programming experience was VB.net.

 

Abrar didn't care because documentation was to be done when we were near a more stable state. And of course a new MC version arrives. By the time we were done porting stuff to the new version and started adding new features, MC updated. Repeat that a couple of times and you see why there was no documentation.

 

At some point Luacs and Malkierian joined to help code, helinus started helping people in with questions on IRC.

 

The 2 of us decided that, instead of updating the duct-tape-FE1 to the next MC version (idk which one anymore), we were gonna make an Abstraction layer. (Sponge avant la lettre) It was going to be awesome. Dynamically downloading/updating plugins, plugin reloading, ...... AKA way too much work for 2 teenagers in school.

 

Abrar was fed up with MCP's .bat file system and started working on GMCP (the precursor to ForgeGradle), and stopped working on FE. Luacs wanted to go back to FE1, I did not, so I left. It didn't help that Forge kept promising blockPlace/blockRemove events and a central permissions system.

 

By this time I had come to know Claycorp, who was in a little modding group with a programer and an artist (both of whom left because of Real Life time constraints). I did some work with them but they suffered of too-many-projects syndrome.

 

In august we decided to start a new group and carry over some active projects, and it has been a fight for players ever since.  :P

We work together like this: He does all PR & docs, and I can focus on what I love. Coding. I do still have my own little projects (holoinventory, TFC-NEI) but almost everything is under Double Door Development. Including the upcoming logger and maybe the ban thing (clay doesn't like them because he has 2 mcbans bans from way back when).

 

TLDR: I'm sorry FE sucks.  B) 

 

wow. many words, such post.

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I never connected that it was the same Abrar who was doing FE and Gradle. My dealings with him were when he was up on FE early on in 1.6.4. The first forge-mod compatible was hacky to see block-break/place Blood had to use a physics event (no idea what that is) to see it. Made for interesting event logs all because forge wouldn't add a blockbreak event. But back on topic.

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These are the things we regard as absolutely essential. Without these we would never even consider running a non-whitelisted public server.

  • Prism (or similar log function for all block, inventory and chat/command interactions)
  • Towny (or similar plot managing function with permissions that can be set by players. We had problems with MyTown for MC 1.7.10 before. Don't know about current version.)
  • Lockette (or similar function to lock all inventories and doors. Having logs isn't enough. Having to restore player's stuff would become a full-time job.)
  • MCBans (or similar ban aggregator. Keeping out known and proven(!) griefers saves us a ton of work.)
  • PermissionsBukkit (or similar global permission system.)
  • WorldBorder (Someting to pre-generate chunks and set a world border so players can't generate new chunks. Prof Mobius has a Forge mod to pre-generate chunks, but it can currently only handle small parts at a time.)

Nice to haves:

  • Player inventory editor (to see and edit any player's inventory.)
  • Trade plugin (players put in their items in a gui, hit a button, items are traded between players simultaneously so they can't get ripped off.)
  • Plot manager Dynmap support. (so players can see towns on the map and plan their journeys/new location of settlement)
  • Support system (so players can open support tickets when there aren't any staff members available.)
  • Region permissions (WorldGuard or similar region protection. In addition to Towny this allows us to setup special regions with specific permissions. Trade posts and vanity plots for example.)
  • MultiVerse (this allows us to have multiple TFC worlds for different player groups. There are several Forge mods that do this, but I currently know of no Forge mod that works with multiple TFC worlds.)

Given the things we regard essential (open to interpretation of course), I'd have to say that trying to port several Bukkit plugins to Forge at this point in time isn't a great idea. WIth Minecraft 1.8 we should get Sponge and all the mayor Bukkit plugins will get ported to that by their respective authors. So making Forge versions of those plugins now seems counter productive.

 

 

 

Just a reminder everyone, the State of Sponge is two days away. (Saturday 24/Sunday 25 depending on your timezone.)

Source: https://forums.spongepowered.org/t/state-of-sponge-25-01-2015/5681

 

Think of it this way. How long will it take for just a few of the essential plugins to get ported/remade into Forge? How long before the Forge mods are stable and mature enough to run reliably on a production server? How long can those new mods be in use until the "originals" get ported to Sponge? Would that be worth the effort of the mod author(s) and the people play testing them?

 

I don't like saying this because i really would like better server tools for Forge. Cauldron isn't likely to get updated officially or unofficially. And new (reliable) mods will probably not arrive in time to make much of a difference.

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  • WorldBorder (Someting to pre-generate chunks and set a world border so players can't generate new chunks. Prof Mobius has a Forge mod to pre-generate chunks, but it can currently only handle small parts at a time.)

 

I have used ProfMobius' thing on HUGE maps without any issues, but I think its highly dependant on your servers CPU.

 

Also, I think you are right about it not being worth updating the big plugins (essentials, WE, prizm, ....) because they are going to be updated to sponge eventually. But there are a lot of smaller things that will most likely never be updated.

BUT:

Sponge isn't done yet, and its implementation won't be stable or reliable for a while. (Also, because its forge, a lot of the things bukkit devs are used to will have changes, which makes updating that much slower.)

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Cool, so Prof Mobius' warning about not going overboard might not be too much of an issue then.

 

It'll probably be a couple of months after Sponge has their initial release before most major mods and plugins get ported. I'd expect it to be similar to a new Forge/Bukkit version in that we'll just have to be patient for a while for things to get updated.

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i know this is about going from cauldron to forge but kcauldron works fine ( dont add cauldron  only kcauldron server files

0 and always you to use plugins the only downer is when you die your crafting grid is set to 4 and cant be returned to 3 x3 with out reloging 

but realistically you only need to re-log when your needing to craft  in a 3x3  and you can add and use so many more plugins etc as well as mods

im not sure if the tfc team would be able to come up with a fix for that or not but at the end of the day its only a little issue

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Cauldron was discontinued due to DMCA of craftbukkit. KCauldron is the result. So Cauldron=kCauldron. Same issues discussion is still valid.

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There is no support from tfc devs to KCauldron. The main issue is because tfc is made for forge, so any issues arriving from using KCauldron are outside of their control.

On the good side we can always report the problems to the KCauldron developers and hope for a fix. They are constantly working to improve.

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yeap hound them to back us and take over standard mc  with tfc :) ... im doing my bit to train the technic comunity that tfc is the way :) 

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Oh, if you want a prism like mod for forge: https://jenkins.dries007.net/job/D3Log/

It works fine for logging, but rolling back can be a PITA. I wouldn't recommended it.

It also makes a TON of data, so make sure you are ready for gigabytes of MySQL DBs.

 

(We have been using it on Deadpine's sub server with great success)

Edited by Dries007
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