[Offline] Nessaja TFCraft Minecraft Server

[Seldron 8]

The problem isn't that you would cause something, that was never the case. The problem is that lava is dangerous in itself. Before placing lava we want to make sure that there won't be any harm done if someone even through a simple mistakes does something wrong. Currently that isn't the case. A creeper explosion or a broken cover could do a lot of harm. When these are not the case anymore - for example if there is no wood nearby, the danger is gone.

And I tried to make that clear yesterday ingame.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

Seldron what you haven't noticed is that my arguement over these last posts was never that I would do something wrong so why do you keep listing that as an issue? What

I have been explaining is that the lava is not dangerous in itself as it had been properly coverd. Lava can only light air blocks on fire that it has a clear connection to it which was not the case as lava will light air blocks on fire using the same mechanics as fire which you do not know.

This can happen at a distance of up to one block downwards, one block sideways (including diagonals), and four blocks upwards of the original fire or lava source.

No wood was within these areas of my exposed roof lava so the only danger was from either griefers or creepers. Griefers can not be prevented and creepers are easily prevented through the use of fences which should have been part of original market design (as I suggested)

So normally at this point I would tell you to go look at my stall and notice the fact that all of these requirements had been met to ensure proper safety of my stall and others with the exception of market fence but it seems you destroyed my stall as soon as I was banned... So as I was banned for not following safety procedures implemented after I created my stall and not following the demands of an admin who did not properly research facts before creating these false procedures the ban should be immediatly lifted on my and my friend Super_Dave18 whose only fault was sticking up for his friend who was unjustly punished and all items lost through looting after the ban returned with extra to cover destroyed building which took upwards of five hours to create.

Sources:

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Fire

[kelik 10]

so far based on my perceptions, both sides are a little at fault here, there were better ways to handle this situation from both major parties. also endless, your friend deserved what he got. he made bad decisions in the height of emotion. there is no call to destroy another player's property, regardless of who built it. it was sub's property that was built for him by you.

that said, what truly disgusts me is the reaction of the community to this. as soon as a player gets banned, his or her items and creations are considered fair game for looting? so we are basically equivalent to cannibal spiders that eat their sick and injured without waiting to see if they will recover? what reasonable justification is there for this behavior? i know someone will claim that if he is banned then he no longer needs it, to which i reiterate "without waiting to see if they will recover"

and in response to seldron's request for software, ecu claims to be attempting to develop some logging soft. but i doubt that he will make it available to this server once it is finished due to this episode.

[Ecu 2]

Seldron, I've read your side of things and I do understand that the reason Endless was banned was specifically the fact that he disobeyed an admin. However, I must state that from my perspective...the issue shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. It does not seem like the lava was causing any danger, except perceived potential griefing. I don't agree with making that kind of judgement call in the first place.

Honestly, I'm on Endless's side. I understand his reason for being banned.. and I agree that disobeying an admin should result in a temporary ban at the very least, however, I disagree with the entire underlying issue. Honestly, if your worry about griefing is so high that you're going to place restrictions on how people build for fear that someone might use it to grief...you should really just whitelist.

Edit: I want to add.. that the community's reaction to immediately ransack everything Endless made, destroy his creations, etc.. seems outright horrible. The fact that those that did suck aren't also getting a temporary ban.. does not sit well with me.

[Lycheborne 37]

I dont see the big deal...Server owner didnt want lava in town...endless placed lava down after he was asked by owner not to put lava in town...Endless said "bye forever server"..or something close to that. Then childishly instead of being calm and talkin to Sel you do all this...I was on server and teamspeak, Sel didnt want to ban you...the rest of the TS people all were gettin mad cause Endless wouldnt respect the no lava in town rule. You can place lava at your personal house outside of the town.

Even if the lava wasnt a problem, the bottom line is admin and other players of server dont want lava in town. Endless just simply couldnt be ok with that request.

[Mithorn 5]

Quite frankly I'm glad to be no where near the town and have nothing to do with them if this is how they are going to behave. While Super deserved the ban he got for destroying Sol's place, it was an understandable emotional reaction to Endless's banning and other peoples maliciousness.

What I don't understand is why no one who took part in destroying Endless's stuff out of pure malice got banned along with him? Since quite clearly destroying other peoples stuff is a banable offense and only the potential use of the stall as griefer fodder was ever an issue with his creations.

[Seldron 8]

Seldron, I've read your side of things and I do understand that the reason Endless was banned was specifically the fact that he disobeyed an admin. However, I must state that from my perspective...the issue shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. It does not seem like the lava was causing any danger, except perceived potential griefing. I don't agree with making that kind of judgement call in the first place.

Honestly, I'm on Endless's side. I understand his reason for being banned.. and I agree that disobeying an admin should result in a temporary ban at the very least, however, I disagree with the entire underlying issue. Honestly, if your worry about griefing is so high that you're going to place restrictions on how people build for fear that someone might use it to grief...you should really just whitelist.

Edit: I want to add.. that the community's reaction to immediately ransack everything Endless made, destroy his creations, etc.. seems outright horrible. The fact that those that did suck aren't also getting a temporary ban.. does not sit well with me.

About the lava disallowence:

When I'm reading the posts here it allways seems that lava is forbidden everywhere.

Stop! Its just about the players 5x5 market stall we are talking about, surrounded by other placers property.

There should be even more rules stating the market stalls, height for example or how would neighboring stall owners feel if ther neighbor build up a 50x5x5 structure overshadowing their stall?

We are talking common sense here.

Nearly every other server i visited got much harder restrictions going for market slots even up to only being allowed chestshops and no decoration at all.

The point that my disallowing lava in public marktplaces is a ridiculus decission I just can't understand. It's rather mild compared to every bukkit server I visited.

Thinking about TFC - you wouldn't even be able to transport lava without vanilla means easily or is it possible now to create iron bukkits with only TFC means?

Banning cause:

Wanting to place lava in the first place wasn't what got him banned. The posts I read stated that I can't ban somebody because others might use his building for grieving.

Thats totally misstated. He was banned for disobeying and god and all of the teamspeak players know I'm right here that i gave him every chance in the book to calm down.

We could have discussed the lava issue at a later time when more mods and players could have a say in that matter.

If I'm wrong or not doesn't count either. I saw a potential problem there and decided on something.

I'm not somebody who thumbes down everything, you can actually talk to me.

But as stated before that evening wasn't my best and when a staff member decides on something you should at least respect that for now and start a normal discussion about it.

Its the same like on other servers: you get banned temporaliy, you start an apeal, admin fetches hes wrong your allowed back in. I didn't even want to take it to the ban stage but he gave me no choice.

His friend was even worse.

I tried to talk logically to him and calm him down.

Due to the fact he destroyed things not owned by him I kicked him 3 times before using the ban command.

Had no choice at all. If he would have camled down it would never have come to that.

I even got chided for not banning him fast enough.

The whitelist thing:

The mods and me working on that, but we allready discussed that: this server was never meant to be a huge community server or something.

I see the need to change that for the community but I can't and I'm not willing to put more time into it than I can afford.

So it takes time for these changes to happen. We discussed how to work that out.

I increased the moderator count. Applied a more describing first post to this forum and I'm in the preparation of a technical solution where we will have a whitelisting without a need to apply in written.

Talking with the community on teamspeak will be enough. A lot of the community will have a means to whitelist instantly without having to have OP rights.

This will take me a few days since I have to change the technical setup of my servers user/group and permission system.

The ransacking:

I'm not happy about that either and I stated that in teamspeak too. Maybe not clearly enough but by that time I was half asleep.

If we remove the ban we will restore that stuff for sure.

Removing the ban:

My problem is still that reading his last post he thinks he is totally right there.

The staff of a server is responsible for the mayority of this server and thus everyone has to accept decissions of mods or admins.

Thats nothing new, every other server has this rule applied. Even if a mod or a admin makes a bad decission you have to at least live for it for now and discuss the matter later when things have calmed down a bit.

I can't allow players on the server who don't respect the staff. I would be using more time than a day has to solve the problems that would lead to.

You see the discussion right now? It takes away time which could have been put into the technical server side todos.

What if I would allow players who can't accept decissions from staff, you see how much time would flow into solving these issues?

So I know I'm not making friends here and I really don't like being dead set about something but I won't recover the ban till I can actually see that the (now written!) rules of the server will be accepted.

When I read endless posts I still see he is thinking he was right in disobaying a staff member just because he thinks he was right.

If we can come to the consusion that while my decission may wasn't to his liking he still would have to obey a staff member and that he will obay staff members in the future we can remove the ban and even discuss the lava matter within the community in a human and friendly setting without any hard feelings. The same goes for the friend of him. I REALLY don't like banning people but it was the only thing I could do to stop the destructions he started.

[Gorni 73]

ehm just a small question... WTF happened to the server???

When i came on today: all my wheat was gone, my sugarcane was gone, all my chests in the middle of the house (not the good hidden one's elswhere) were completly empty. I thought ok, thats kinda strange. Went to my neighbours house (Yosh) same thing: All chests completly empty, 1 chest had items in rest empty. Went to a house in town to check: everything completly empty.... Did some kind of bug occur or something like that???

Edit: checked your how's too seldron, everything gone.

Though not one block is broken anywhere... it really looks like some kind of bug.

edit 2: Checked the whole town... it looks pretty strange, the farm is gone, the fruit trees are gone, and like 90% of all chests in town are completly empty...

edit 3: from my public factory both anvils and all stuff in chests is gone... okay honestly... WTF?

[Seldron 8]

Checked: Chests from players away from the city seems to still hold their stuff.

Chests in town which where hard to get to still hold their stuff.

Chests surrounded by bedrock still hold their stuff.

My conclusion: no bug ... a griever.

Seems there was somebody really angry, no way somebody could take that many things away. Seems like it's just been emptied out on the ground and despawned.

[Gorni 73]

great.... anyone got any ideas about that thing?

@Seldron, do we have a backup or something like that?

[Gorni 73]

you do not need to install any additional mods. You can just install the game normaly and play. The rest is just useful for you.

[Seldron 8]

We set up a new server running 0.46e, whitelisted, applied for by connecting to teamspeak or asking to join here.

The player community will decide if someone can join.

Thats all I can do for now about protecting you guys from grievers.

I won't close down the old world, but I won't invest much time there anymore.

[Milhojas 0]

Hey, seldron i have no mic so TS isnt an option for me id like to apply to the new server, hopefully ill fit in just well.

Thanks.

[Hullian 0]

I don't have a mic too, but I'd love to join the new server!

[Seldron 8]

For TS you don't need a mic, you can type in a channel like a chatroom too.

[Hullian 0]

For TS you don't need a mic, you can type in a channel like a chatroom too.

OK, I'll try to use TS then!

[calfolfsky 0]

I try to log into the safe server, but my minecraft just crashes. doesn't even say if I'm whitelisted or not.

[Seldron 8]

You have to have the correct version of TFC, the whitelisted server is using beta 2 build 46e.

[calfolfsky 0]

I am using 46e D:

[Seldron 8]

Join teamspeak and discuss the matter there. There are players who can whitelist you too. Basically the community decides if anyone is being whitelisted.

[lakeel 5]

i like pie :3

[Yoshari 2]

Did something happen to the server? I'm getting a communications error.

[Gorni 73]

it likes to die a lot at the moment..someone is somehow crashing it and we don't know why.

[Silverfur11 0]

When are we going to update to 47b?

[Gorni 73]

well with all recent crashes and the server being down right now... i really suggest to move along to 47b with a new map of course.

edit: oh we already updated...