[Offline] Nessaja TFCraft Minecraft Server

[Seldron 8]

We are still on beta 2 build 45 ( though.

I'd like to check if the new build is stable before installing it.

I will install it tomorrow if it works properly.

Please don't log in using the new client version. You wouldn't be able to finish the login and it can crash the server.

I'll state here when you have to update your client.

[NewClear83 0]

Client 46B works fine, using it on Singleplayer, well, apart from animals not dropping any items when you kill them (Beef, Pork etc). Server seems to be non working though, might need to hold off while it's looked at.

Server works and runs ok, just crashes the client when it connects as I stated above. Going to keep trying to get it to work, since my server only has me on it, no pressure to keep it online

NC

[kelik 10]

do not update to 46b! the metallurgy system is broken currently. if you try to work with an unshaped metal it will heat instantly to liquid state, then when it cools enough to be workable it immediately jumps to cold, making it unworkable. it is a bug that has been reported and acknowledged and hopefully another hotfix will go out to correct it.

[Gorni 73]

46b is not just a bit broken, a quick overview: Cooking/melting is instant, animals don't drop items, mettalurgy system is completly screwed since you can't work metal. AND: It seems no one can join a server on 46b, since the join crashes the client.

[Seldron 8]

We will postpone the update till at least the largest bugs have been fixed.

I may open the copy of the world with the newest build for testing, depends on how the server can handle 2 Minecraft instances. Have to test that.

[MDub 68]

I tried out 46c today... still seems to be pretty broken. SMP wasnt functioning at all. Same problem as before, client gets an expcetion when they login, and server just oblivously hums along.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

So I was banned from the server today for using lava in the creation of my market stall... It was deemed unsafe for the market because if somebody decided to destroy my stall and release the enclosed lava it would damage other stalls. After my lava was removed from my stall I was warned that if I placed it again I would be banned. I would not accept that I should be punished for somebody griefing me, so I placed the lava again knowing full well Seldron would ban me as I was warned. I did this to prove the fact that this server punishs people for the actions of others. I was especially saddened to hear that my friend Super_Dave18 logged on to see that not only was the stall that was built by me being destroyed and looted, but was asked to know where I lived so they could loot my stuff. He took it upon himself, as he noticed that everything I had built was being destroyed, to assist in the endeavors by destroying another stall built by me for a Sol_Subzero. This was not allowed as it appeared only the property of Endless_Riddles was being destroyed to thoroughly eliminate the presence of my impact upon the town, he was also banned.

In total if you want to join a server that punishs people for the actions of others and for friends sticking up for each other then by all means join this server, but if you do, despite warning, note that as soon as you are not around to protect your items that had been painstakingly created or found then you will be looted and your work destroyed by people whom you once considered to be if not friends then at least comrades in the Terrafirmian crawl towards Red Steel. (beaver and save_92)

[Ecu 2]

So I was banned from the server today for using lava in the creation of my market stall... It was deemed unsafe for the market because if somebody decided to destroy my stall and release the enclosed lava it would damage other stalls. After my lava was removed from my stall I was warned that if I placed it again I would be banned. I would not accept that I should be punished for somebody griefing me, so I placed the lava again knowing full well Seldron would ban me as I was warned. I did this to prove the fact that this server punishs people for the actions of others. I was especially saddened to hear that my friend Super_Dave18 logged on to see that not only was the stall that was built by me being destroyed and looted, but was asked to know where I lived so they could loot my stuff. He took it upon himself, as he noticed that everything I had built was being destroyed, to assist in the endeavors by destroying another stall built by me for a Sol_Subzero. This was not allowed as it appeared only the property of Endless_Riddles was being destroyed to thoroughly eliminate the presence of my impact upon the town, he was also banned.

In total if you want to join a server that punishs people for the actions of others and for friends sticking up for each other then by all means join this server, but if you do, despite warning, note that as soon as you are not around to protect your items that had been painstakingly created or found then you will be looted and your work destroyed by people whom you once considered to be if not friends then at least comrades in the Terrafirmian crawl towards Red Steel. (beaver and save_92)

Alright, this is kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I've had issues with people messing with my builds, stealing my stuff, and now someone is being banned because they wanted to have a specific visual and someone MIGHT grief? This is rather silly.

This is not how I expect a public server administrator to handle things. Especially when it seems like they want a community to flourish. I understand you have limited time, Seldron, but making a call like this really seems like a bad way to handle things. I've only got one side of the story, but it does not look to me like Endless was griefing himself/herself. Instead you banned them because of the potential griefing that others could cause to others by breaking Endless's stall? So you're punishing Endless for sticking up for himself/herself...

Honestly.. it really doesn't sit well with me. Especially when combined with the fact that actual griefing has happened to many people. Punishing a loyal player that just wanted to make something look kewl is a really bad call. I don't feel comfortable playing on this server in its current state. So unless something is changed, ciao all... it was fun while it lasted.

[Yoshari 2]

So I was banned from the server today for using lava in the creation of my market stall... It was deemed unsafe for the market because if somebody decided to destroy my stall and release the enclosed lava it would damage other stalls. After my lava was removed from my stall I was warned that if I placed it again I would be banned. I would not accept that I should be punished for somebody griefing me, so I placed the lava again knowing full well Seldron would ban me as I was warned. I did this to prove the fact that this server punishs people for the actions of others. I was especially saddened to hear that my friend Super_Dave18 logged on to see that not only was the stall that was built by me being destroyed and looted, but was asked to know where I lived so they could loot my stuff. He took it upon himself, as he noticed that everything I had built was being destroyed, to assist in the endeavors by destroying another stall built by me for a Sol_Subzero. This was not allowed as it appeared only the property of Endless_Riddles was being destroyed to thoroughly eliminate the presence of my impact upon the town, he was also banned.

In total if you want to join a server that punishs people for the actions of others and for friends sticking up for each other then by all means join this server, but if you do, despite warning, note that as soon as you are not around to protect your items that had been painstakingly created or found then you will be looted and your work destroyed by people whom you once considered to be if not friends then at least comrades in the Terrafirmian crawl towards Red Steel. (beaver and save_92)

I would not accept that I should be punished for somebody griefing me...

You would be partially to blame because lava in your stall can serve as a focus FOR griefing.

Seldron made it clear from the chat in game that griefing is punishable, so he took extra precautions to minimize griefing in the town.

I did this to prove the fact that this server punishes people for the actions of others.

You were not forced to put lava back in, it was deemed as dangerous to other stalls.

In fact, a creeper exploded near your stall (which was in fact close to my stall as I am adjacent to your stall) that probably destroyed some of your walls and most of my stall. That was also a problem as well because you proved that it was dangerous by bringing it (the creeper) to the market. If you had lava in the structure, the damage could have been plenty worse.

While I do believe Seldron is correct, it wasn't stated that greifing IS punishable in the main topic. But then again, it is HIS server, he can choose whether the server can stay up or will close by his will.

I am sorry for your banning, and also for your friend as well. Your creations were wonderful. If you were on TeamSpeak (which, when this was going down, most of the people, including Seldron were in), you would have been able to argue a better case, or even listen to Seldron's reasoning behind it. While it is unfortunate that stealing is a constant reminder, it's harder to prevent (as it is not white-listed).

Note: This was occurring when Seldron was up 25 hours (emergency call in his work) and slept only 3 hours at the time. Should you have had a better timing, this may not have been what it had.

[aeper 6]

i'm going to suggest a server reset, And maybe white listing the server with its current players.

Ps, Im working on a add-on for TFC. updates to come

[HidingInTheLight 10]

So I was banned from the server today for using lava in the creation of my market stall... It was deemed unsafe for the market because if somebody decided to destroy my stall and release the enclosed lava it would damage other stalls. After my lava was removed from my stall I was warned that if I placed it again I would be banned. I would not accept that I should be punished for somebody griefing me, so I placed the lava again knowing full well Seldron would ban me as I was warned. I did this to prove the fact that this server punishs people for the actions of others.

No. You were punished for your own action. You said so yourself, you knew you would be banned if you placed the lava again.

I was especially saddened to hear that my friend Super_Dave18 logged on to see that not only was the stall that was built by me being destroyed and looted, but was asked to know where I lived so they could loot my stuff. He took it upon himself, as he noticed that everything I had built was being destroyed, to assist in the endeavors by destroying another stall built by me for a Sol_Subzero.

So you built something for another player, and your friend decided since you were gone that he should destroy someone's property? If you built it for someone else, it's there's not yours. Sounds like your friend got what he deserved as well.

What if you had built your friends shop? Should he have destroyed his own place, just because it was your creation?

This was not allowed as it appeared only the property of Endless_Riddles was being destroyed to thoroughly eliminate the presence of my impact upon the town, he was also banned.

In total if you want to join a server that punishs people for the actions of others and for friends sticking up for each other then by all means join this server, but if you do, despite warning, note that as soon as you are not around to protect your items that had been painstakingly created or found then you will be looted and your work destroyed by people whom you once considered to be if not friends then at least comrades in the Terrafirmian crawl towards Red Steel. (beaver and save_92)

Even from your side of the story, looks like the correct decision was made.

[Ecu 2]

I don't really agree with those that are stating the right decision was made. Outlawing lava being used in Endless's own creation seems rather restrictive in the first place. Sure, he disobeyed the admin. I get that.. but what else do you do when you feel an admin made a bad judgement call, but call them on it?

Griefer's don't need his lava stall to grief. They could easily just drag creepers into the market and blow stuff up. They could also go mine a bit of iron, make a bucket and toss lava everywhere themselves. Banning someone for using their own creative vision, with the excuse that it could be used for griefing is.. in my opinion.. a very poor judgement call.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

You would be partially to blame because lava in your stall can serve as a focus FOR griefing.

Seldron made it clear from the chat in game that griefing is punishable, so he took extra precautions to minimize griefing in the town.

You were not forced to put lava back in, it was deemed as dangerous to other stalls.

In fact, a creeper exploded near your stall (which was in fact close to my stall as I am adjacent to your stall) that probably destroyed some of your walls and most of my stall. That was also a problem as well because you proved that it was dangerous by bringing it (the creeper) to the market. If you had lava in the structure, the damage could have been plenty worse.

While I do believe Seldron is correct, it wasn't stated that greifing IS punishable in the main topic. But then again, it is HIS server, he can choose whether the server can stay up or will close by his will.

I am sorry for your banning, and also for your friend as well. Your creations were wonderful. If you were on TeamSpeak (which, when this was going down, most of the people, including Seldron were in), you would have been able to argue a better case, or even listen to Seldron's reasoning behind it. While it is unfortunate that stealing is a constant reminder, it's harder to prevent (as it is not white-listed).

Note: This was occurring when Seldron was up 25 hours (emergency call in his work) and slept only 3 hours at the time. Should you have had a better timing, this may not have been what it had.

First:

I should be to blame for my stall being cool looking enough for griefers to target? Should I take that as a compliment?

Second:

Seldron stated that griefing is punishable so he took precautions? Seldron did not even join the town until a few days ago and besides his hut next to the market he has not impacted the town to any extent to protect from griefers or otherwise.

Third:

Stalls in the market were made largely of stone so the only wood within the area of my lava was planks which only purpose was to differentiate the stalls for Chocmerc's selling convenience.

Fourth:

Seldron was up for 25 hours with 3 hours of sleep... So because the host was having a bad day I should concede on the issue that was only a problem because he made an issue of it? Also after his long day is his judgement really expected to be the same after sleep depravation where studies show after 21 hours awake people show the same cognative function of a person with .08% blood alcohol which is legaly drunk

Fifth:

As Ecu pointed out my stall would not convince someone who otherwise wouldn't grief to begin a spree. A simple pickaxe is the most useful tool for all sorts of griefing so should that be banned in use?

Bottom Line if somebody decides to grief there is nothing you can do to stop it and the only way to contain it is to ban / kick the griefer so should I get banned for using what is in essence a building block which on its own can not do any harm other then that caused by players?

[MDub 68]

Im sad to see ya go Endless....

[Ecu 2]

First:

I should be to blame for my stall being cool looking enough for griefers to target? Should I take that as a compliment?

Second:

Seldron stated that griefing is punishable so he took precautions? Seldron did not even join the town until a few days ago and besides his hut next to the market he has not impacted the town to any extent to protect from griefers or otherwise.

Third:

Stalls in the market were made largely of stone so the only wood within the area of my lava was planks which only purpose was to differentiate the stalls for Chocmerc's selling convenience.

Fourth:

Seldron was up for 25 hours with 3 hours of sleep... So because the host was having a bad day I should concede on the issue that was only a problem because he made an issue of it? Also after his long day is his judgement really expected to be the same after sleep depravation where studies show after 21 hours awake people show the same cognative function of a person with .08% blood alcohol which is legaly drunk

Fifth:

As Ecu pointed out my stall would not convince someone who otherwise wouldn't grief to begin a spree. A simple pickaxe is the most useful tool for all sorts of griefing so should that be banned in use?

Bottom Line if somebody decides to grief there is nothing you can do to stop it and the only way to contain it is to ban / kick the griefer so should I get banned for using what is in essence a building block which on its own can not do any harm other then that caused by players?

This -^

[kelik 10]

this is not the correct way to deal with the greifing problem on this server. based on this logic, i want to have a lava pitfall in my house to protect my treasures. if my house happens to be uphill of someone's tree farm, would i, too, be told to disassemble the trap in case of the event that a greifer punches a hole in my trap?

my stance for awhile was that the correct way to deal with greifing in this server is to get a basic logging mod implemented that kept track of who moved what blocks and opened which chests. someone here was even working to develop that. ecu. guess who has been alienated by this episode? ecu, among others. poor judgement has caused this server to lose a good chance at improving. congrats.

[Seldron 8]

I don't really agree with those that are stating the right decision was made. Outlawing lava being used in Endless's own creation seems rather restrictive in the first place. Sure, he disobeyed the admin. I get that.. but what else do you do when you feel an admin made a bad judgement call, but call them on it?

Griefer's don't need his lava stall to grief. They could easily just drag creepers into the market and blow stuff up. They could also go mine a bit of iron, make a bucket and toss lava everywhere themselves. Banning someone for using their own creative vision, with the excuse that it could be used for griefing is.. in my opinion.. a very poor judgement call.

I gave him about 6 hours to remove that danger himself. He didnt do that even after we had a 15min discussion about that while all he stated was that his stall wasn't a danger to other people and that it's not his fault if something happens when one of the plate got destroyed (griever, creeper, accident). The market next to him had wood in his stall like 1 block next to lava (the plate cover actually was on this players stall side ...) and right beside that one was a tree.

I really tried to get him to understand why I made that decision.

He desided not to remove the lava. After i went back online after severall hours the lava was still there so I removed it and set up a glowstone water setup instead. Tried as best as I can to make an suitable replacement.

After he came back online he was not happy about that and we started arguing again why that is a danger and an invitation for grievers. I stated again that he can do that in his home as often as he wanted just not on community property where more than his stuff is put into danger.

He wasn't banned because of the lava he was banned because he started to put the lava back in and ignoring my clear decission to not place it.

I clearly stated that he will be banned when he replaces the lava. I was standing right beside him.

Before he placed the lava he stated in the chat: "bye server" so he surely knew what will happen if he would place it.

He placed the lava and got banned. Thats it.

You know what happens if a police officer in real life sais put your weapon down to you and you wont wield?

He could have just let the water be for now and start a human discussion about the topic in forum, may ask neigboring stall owners to talk with me and remove possible dangers like wood in their stalls.

There would have been a lot of options do do that without just placing the lava back.

He has been warned, he knew that being heavy headed about it will get him banned, he said bye to the server, he placed the lava, he got banned. A rather short story.

His friend logged on a few minutes after that and complained.

I tried to say thats his own fault for being banned, and that the ban was because he just couldn't stop putting his own decission before an admin ones.

He started destroying the stall of another player (subzero) and stated that it is his right to do that because endless_riddles created it.

I warned him that he will get banned if he continues grieving the stall of another player.

He didn't stop.

He didn't stop after I kicked him one time.

He didn't stop after I kicked him a second time.

He didn't stop after I warned him again and kicked him a third time.

He came online again and continued with the destruction ... and was banned.

I'm sorry about that but I had no other options.

There are decisions in the world where you just have to accept was is being decided at least for the time being.

My decision wasn't implacting anyone besides one simple block exchange to prevent the market, a comunity place, from being set into danger.

I don't think I went overboard with this decision. The Mods currently online thought the same.

All players im teamspeak at that time (>75% of players online) argued the same way that i should ban him if he ignores my decision.

[Seldron 8]

this is not the correct way to deal with the greifing problem on this server. based on this logic, i want to have a lava pitfall in my house to protect my treasures. if my house happens to be uphill of someone's tree farm, would i, too, be told to disassemble the trap in case of the event that a greifer punches a hole in my trap?

my stance for awhile was that the correct way to deal with greifing in this server is to get a basic logging mod implemented that kept track of who moved what blocks and opened which chests. someone here was even working to develop that. ecu. guess who has been alienated by this episode? ecu, among others. poor judgement has caused this server to lose a good chance at improving. congrats.

Kelik the problem was the enclosed space of the market. Nobody has his home build of wood 1 block beside your lava at your home.

Your option to prevent this from beeing a danger (log and protection fields) can't happen because there are no protection modules out there.

I was searching for weeks for that right after grieving started.

If you show me ONE that is working I'm 100% for doing that. Than I wouldn't even have mentioned to remove the lava because it wouldn't have been a danger if lava spread and stuff could be disabled for the field or protection zone.

Like res/precious stones/protectionfields/protectionsstones. There are so many plugins out there but not a single one is compatible as far as I tried and know.

[Acdcwrocker 0]

not on this server but a good logging plugin is Hawkeye i use it it not only shows who broke what it shows commands and if people took things out of chests its very good

[Seldron 8]

not on this server but a good logging plugin is Hawkeye i use it it not only shows who broke what it shows commands and if people took things out of chests its very good

Hawkeye requires Bukkit, TFC is not bukkit compatible.

So no Hawkeye with TFC. Any other suggestion?

[Gorni 73]

sad to hear that you got banned endless, i loved your chisel creations. Though i can understand seldron, since no logging or what so ever is possible at the moment. If you could accept the fact, that lava placing is not tolerated in town, maybe you could get back if you talk to seldron?

I don't like seeing good working ppl be banned just cause they cannot get on a line with the admin. And i don't understand why anyone would get so angry just cause lava ain't allowed in town.

Seldron is the admin, so his decisions overweigth those of everyone else, since he provides the server you play on. it just makes me sad to see stuff like this happen. I like the server though im regularly getting robbed... but yeah gotta deal with it since its a beta and no logging is currently possible. That the reason some advanced safety precussions have to be taken by seldron. I really hope everyone can understand that problem.

[Seldron 8]

Updated the leading forum post to repressent rules and appointed moderators.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

I gave him about 6 hours to remove that danger himself. He didnt do that even after we had a 15min discussion about that while all he stated was that his stall wasn't a danger to other people and that it's not his fault if something happens when one of the plate got destroyed (griever, creeper, accident). The market next to him had wood in his stall like 1 block next to lava (the plate cover actually was on this players stall side ...) and right beside that one was a tree.

I really tried to get him to understand why I made that decision.

He desided not to remove the lava. After i went back online after severall hours the lava was still there so I removed it and set up a glowstone water setup instead. Tried as best as I can to make an suitable replacement.

After he came back online he was not happy about that and we started arguing again why that is a danger and an invitation for grievers. I stated again that he can do that in his home as often as he wanted just not on community property where more than his stuff is put into danger.

He wasn't banned because of the lava he was banned because he started to put the lava back in and ignoring my clear decission to not place it.

I clearly stated that he will be banned when he replaces the lava. I was standing right beside him.

Before he placed the lava he stated in the chat: "bye server" so he surely knew what will happen if he would place it.

He placed the lava and got banned. Thats it.

You know what happens if a police officer in real life sais put your weapon down to you and you wont wield?

He could have just let the water be for now and start a human discussion about the topic in forum, may ask neigboring stall owners to talk with me and remove possible dangers like wood in their stalls.

There would have been a lot of options do do that without just placing the lava back.

He has been warned, he knew that being heavy headed about it will get him banned, he said bye to the server, he placed the lava, he got banned. A rather short story.

His friend logged on a few minutes after that and complained.

I tried to say thats his own fault for being banned, and that the ban was because he just couldn't stop putting his own decission before an admin ones.

He started destroying the stall of another player (subzero) and stated that it is his right to do that because endless_riddles created it.

I warned him that he will get banned if he continues grieving the stall of another player.

He didn't stop.

He didn't stop after I kicked him one time.

He didn't stop after I kicked him a second time.

He didn't stop after I warned him again and kicked him a third time.

He came online again and continued with the destruction ... and was banned.

I'm sorry about that but I had no other options.

There are decisions in the world where you just have to accept was is being decided at least for the time being.

My decision wasn't implacting anyone besides one simple block exchange to prevent the market, a comunity place, from being set into danger.

I don't think I went overboard with this decision. The Mods currently online thought the same.

All players im teamspeak at that time (>75% of players online) argued the same way that i should ban him if he ignores my decision.

First:

Seldron for the 6 hours you were offline I was offline as well and when i logged off the first time I left the lava in place. Upon logging back on later I noticed you replaced my lava with water and glowstone. This was not acceptable as I built that entire stall with the intention of using lava using redish stone and a lava suitable color scheme. At which point I replaced the lava and then understanding that my stall might be a danger took steps to enclose the lava in the corners so people could not accidently kill themselves with the exception of intentionally jumping on the roof. (which I was intending to enclose)

Second:

What you fail to appreciate is the statement that my stall in itself was no danger by its presence alone if somebody decided to grief as I stated earlier nobody can stop them... By destroying my stall and releasing lava would have in fact done LESS damage then simply using a pickaxe freely around the marker for only 10 seconds. I propose banning pickaxes on the server because they make things easier to grief.

Third:

What you failed to post was that I did ask neighboring stall owner Yoshari to build with stone instead, even offering to supplying the stone myself. Also the tree was only there temporarily until the stall was sold.

Fourth:

I did place the lava knowing I would get banned because if you feel a bad decision was made then you have to oppose it or you have no right to complain later.

Fifth:

So as you stated if I wanted to place lava in my stall I should have started a human discussion about it on the forum? So in total I need community approval as to what i can use to build in my own stall? Have you even thought about this? what you are stating is that I give up my ability as a minecrafter to build things to the sky because what if a griefer comes along and destroyed a key support and my house crashs down on somebody else. I would get blamed for somebody griefing me if it damaged somebody else. Imaging you are stopped at a stop light behind somebody, all of a sudden somebody slams into your rear causing you to hit the car in front. Should you be criminally liable for the damages to the front car?

[Seldron 8]

The point of you being banned isn't the lava, we could have solved that like adults if you would just have let that water be, till we could have discussed that. No harm would have happened if it's water temporarily.

But you decided to replace it even if you have been clearly asked to not do it or be banned.

I've got no problem removing the ban but you should be able to accept decissions of a staff member.

You should know me after the last few days. The other members in team speak have heard how hard I did make the decission to ban you. If we would have a calm discussion later about the lava and the wood have been replaced there would have been enough time to change water back into lava without any hard feelings.

My first objective was to remove a possible dangerous situation to avoid even more grievings or problems.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

Lets make this a simple question, Seldron do you now see that lava being placed in my stall was not an unnecessary risk to the community (with the exception of griefers who as pointed out earlier could do more damage then my lava ever could) provided safety procautions had been followed including my steps at extra enclosure and a simple fence around the market which should have been done already to remove threat of creepers.

my stall in itself was no danger by its presence alone if somebody decided to grief as I stated earlier nobody can stop them... By destroying my stall and releasing lava would have in fact done LESS damage then simply using a pickaxe freely around the marker for only 10 seconds.