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Just_Another_Guy_:)

Enchantment system

187 posts in this topic

Avoiding things, like looking up runes.

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Avoiding things, like looking up runes.

...but now you're making it like thaumcraft where you HAVE to find them in-world or the feature is unusable. The entire point of these was to be a neat little optional aside, skippable if you don't feel like bothering by just a few web browser clicks.

Stopping people from looking these up will just piss them off

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I'm saying that is a side effect of randomized runes, EU, not that it is anything that seems useful for its purpose, other than making things harder on the player.

At this point it'd be better to have a set of runes, that anyone can look p, and a set of enchantments that the runes could have, and between worlds, the same runes could have different effects.

-No randomized hubbub

-People can look up runes

-Forced trial-and-error experimentation due to runes not having the same effects between save files

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I'm saying that is a side effect of randomized runes, EU, not that it is anything that seems useful for its purpose, other than making things harder on the player.

At this point it'd be better to have a set of runes, that anyone can look p, and a set of enchantments that the runes could have, and between worlds, the same runes could have different effects.

-No randomized hubbub

-People can look up runes

-Forced trial-and-error experimentation due to runes not having the same effects between save files

...but that's like having the axe pattern give you a mace plan because you're on a different world. I don't get it.

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Well, is there another way to make runes-apparently the buzzword for magic in all cases-more skill-based?

If so, is crafting runes [which I'll dub 'artificing'] going to be like a scribing table had children with an anvil? [Making an "artificer's table"]

What are the 'tools' [Cut infused gems, lenses, and chisels?] and 'ingredients' [dyes, valuable and semi valuable metals, raw gems, and cut gems?] going to be, and the 'actions' and 'rules' for crafting.

Pretty much, i'm seeing metallurgy based on skill, enchanting, based on experimentation, now.

If you don't like rigorous refining based on skill, go onto enchanting, and screw around with your gems [dyes, tools of choice, and son on].

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No, randomness = how things actually work

Nearly EVERYTHING in minecraft, and even moreso in TFC, is based on chance. Javelins randomly break when thrown, ores provide a random amount of metal, ore generation is random, gem discovery is random, mob generation is pseudo-random, biome generation is pseudo-random (based on the random seed)... It's all randomized. Why shouldn't this be too?

I just feel that it would really fit in with the random, difficult, luck-based, structure-intensive feel of the mod

Please copy and paste that on every thread.

Don't like randomness? Play old games.

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Please copy and paste that on every thread.

Don't like randomness? Play old games.

i like randomness, but i feel that the crafting portion of any system should be controlable. there needs to be some elevel of control in the game at every step of each process imo. getting the gems, random, getting the souls/energy needed to power the enchant, random, hell even whether the enchant is sucessful or if it is a weakend version of the enchant, these are all random parts of the enchanting system, but there should be some minute amount of control, like for instence the types of enchants, related to the gem type, although stereotyping is alittle old hat, maybe make it so that some gems give you enchants that you would not think. like ruby gives efficensy, and beryl gives fire. not sure. even the ability to sacrafice more exp/souls to increase the sucess rate of enchanting. i like the idea of preparing the gems a bit. maybe make it challenging a bit so it requires some amount of skill somehow? but the over all idea should be that there should be a balance between the randomness and the controllable features.

not to controlled, but bot so random the player has no control over then enchants at all.

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If they're lookupable, they don't need to be found in the world. "Neat interesting side" bs. Sorry but if I can look them up then that should be the focus.

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Random enchantments are a bad idea. There are few things more frustrating than spending time hunting down materials, or gaining levels, or both, to enchant something, and then getting something entirely useless or unwanted.

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Then use cheap materials for testing purposes. [Tools take damage, but last a while, ingredients involve gems, dye, metals]

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To Lumireaver: What you described in your first post was an expanded version of the enchantment system. I like this I just don't like the experience in certain areas idea it seems unnecessary.

Oh, I...think I understand. Comparing it to the traditional enchantment system doesn't really make any sense considering it doesn't use currency (experience/mana/whatever), or rely on randomness to determine rewards. I suspect that mindset is what is preventing you from seeing the merit dynamic enchantment growth would have. This entire time I've been thinking of it more like a achievement system. Once you've 'enabled' and fitted a gem on a sword, for example, you would have to kill thirty(example) creepers to acquire the creeper slaying enchantment, bestowing you with an extra half-heart(example) of damage against creepers. Killing sixty more could give you another half-heart, and a five percent better chance of getting loot(more examples). If you were to kill sixty mobs without focusing on any one mob (no mob is >XX% of the last sixty...) you would get a more generic power boost without the benefit of an improved drop rate. It could be made so that certain enchantments lock out other enchantments, or so that if certain enchantments are possessed, other enchantments behave differently. For example possessing the generic power enchantment would override the creeper slaying one, however you would still receive enhanced drops from creepers.

Another possible function of gem (types) I just came up with would be to amplify the enchantments when like gems are used. So a full diamond encrusted set would receive a bonus while a mixed ruby, agate, beryl set would get none.

I've also put some thought into gem setting and gold smithing. Setting gems could function similarly to using an anvil with some key differences. There would be three input slots...one for the gem to be set, one for a workable (liquid? soldering?...not sure if good idea...) precious metal, and one for the tool being decorated. Like smithing, you would get your rules, but unlike smithing, failing would risk losing the gem, or lowering it one grade. (The margin for failure compared to the anvil could be tweaked.)

Other possible enchantments (with crappy names) that could work:

Night bonus (Works with anything) - Hard nights have improved tool efficiency at night.

Use your tools primarily at night...

Seasonal bonus (Farm tools) - Harvesting many the current seasonal crops has improved crop yield from the current seasonal crops.

Simply use your tools to harvest many seasonal crops...

Food bonus (Works with anything) - Working with a full stomach improves efficiency, stack with other bonuses...

Eat before using your tools a certain number of times...

Part of the fun would also be discovering these enchantments. Unless you're one of those people who looks everything up in order to minmax your efficiency.

Some (also crappy) illustrations because I was bored. One, two, and three.

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testing is fine, but not random enchants, i actualy like the idea of not know what the gem is enchanted with until you test it. that could be a factor in making enchanting a profession. you have to actualy take the time to leard which gems can be used to make which enchants, and i do kinda like the idea of a glyph. i actualy just thought of this,if we open a thread about enchants alone to give bioxx ideas for enchants, if there are more enchants then gems, the some gems could have multiple possible enchants and to add to the randomness feel you could make it so each gem has a chance togive one of 3? or however many enchants there are relative to gems, some gems could even share enchants, you would use glyphs to chose which enchant you want to pick, so there could either be sevral glyphs and only certain glyphs affect certain gems, or only as many glyphs as there are enchants on the gems. so if there are 3 enchants 3 glyphs, or 8 gluphs that sometimes effect the gem and sometimes do not. this is actualy a randomness effect i can live with because as time goes by you can learn to control the effect eventualy. so you start of lot of gambling, and eventualy learn to play the cards in your favor.

if anyone has anything to add to this, any idea changes for how to work this better please post it in the comment section, and be constructive, not destructive. if we point out the flaws in eachothers ideas that is fine, as long as we take the time to try to improve upon the idea or give alternate ideas. oh and to adress the whole post nether idea. the first enchanting table has very low enchant rate and low enchant levels. you need to make a teir 2 enchat whatever to get higher chances and higher levels of enchants. and to find glyphs they should spawn in hell. im not sure how. but the glyphs should either apear in hell dungeons often or as a naturaly occuring land mark. i like the idea of having the wals of hell fortresses having pictograms and sometime a glyph appearing that you can try out.

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How about this:

Imagine a set up like the anvil.

You have a slot for the item to be enchanted, and then you have a "recipe" for the enchantment which goes in the slot next to the item.

There are 4 buttons on either side, which change the position of markers on the bottom of the interface, just the way the anvil works.

Using those buttons to move the markers consumes items from your inventory. There is one to go with each button.

There would be a "rules" set to go with each recipe.

How good the enchantment is is determined by how perfectly you line up those two markers in completing the recipe, same as durability is for items made on the anvil.

For example, a recipe for "moderate knockback" would range from no knockback at all, enchantment failed if you screw up badly, to slight knockback if you're off by a bit, to "moderate" knockback if you get it dead on.

There could be different "strength" versions of the recipes. So if you just happen to be bad at enchanting, or you don't mind wasting a bunch of ingredients because you have plenty of them, you could use a "superior knockback" enchantment recipe and recieve a "moderate knockback" enchantment from not getting it perfect since you don't care, or you could get good at it and just use a "moderate knockback" recipe and get it dead on.

Also, there could be a "duration" for enchantments, too, based on how well you line up the markers. For example, say a "perfect" moderate damage increase on swords enchantment adds 2 hearts of damage to each swing, and lasts 100 swings, whereas as crappy one might only add 1 heart of damage and last 50 swings.

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I am disturbed with how pleased I am with my own idea. If someone else suggested something similar, I apologize, I haven't bothered to read the thread.

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Okay, okay so random was a little too strong of a word let me rephrase that there would be variable patterns, all runes of the fire typ would be similar with only minor changes (maybe 4 spots are changed from the actual key). And Lumireaver that would force people into specification. If a player wants to be specific that's his choice but for everyone we are just limiting options. I wasn't talking about random enchants that would be strange, each gem enchants into one grouping and gets a level that is affected by quality. When bound to a tool, the tool will get enchantments which are within the grouping, all add up to the level, and are affected by catalysts (or whatever we want to call them, I still need feedback on this idea). These will determine the outcome so it should be a little specific unless we get more enchants. And that is what i had in mind for glyphs also Devlin. Cevkic, we needed an idea for the control of the levels from gem quality (so in your system, flawless gems would be easier to get a higher level for than chipped gems, right?) We don't want to add too many new blocks did you say this was on the anvil or are we going to have to repurpose the enchantment table. On the subject I think the plans for runes should be on the scribbing table but we should writing onto something else. Perhaps we could write onto stone or something and we could use masonry to make the glyphs.

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sigh... everyone keeps getting the wrong idea about MY idea. I thought I'd explained it thoroughly, but everyone's trying to change stuff about what I said... that I never actually said. How can I make things clear so that you guys will understand me properly? I wouldn't be so frustrated that you didn't like it if you actually understood it fully...

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EternnalUndeath, I understand your ideas and that make sense but they don't right into the system we are laying out. I'm trying to reshape them to work and I would appreciate if you were to help. And what's nice?

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- snip -

This is interesting also. How would we acquire recipes though? I'm feeling something like that achievement system I mentioned up there. (Certain achievements could be cleared on death) Taking advantage of the preexisting achievement mechanic has its merits. The recipe would just be selectable via a scrollable list.

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Against the recipe idea didn't see that. That would mean we would pretty much have to restart this topic as most ideas (not all have been based on enchanting into groups and then into an enchantment during binding so it could better adapt and could be "shaped" better that is we could have a little more control on enchants and still have a random factor. Rather than consuming items lets improve on the system we already have and use experience in a redone enchanting table.

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eh, I think I'm done here (just topic, not the board lol)... not to be all 'I'm taking my ball and going home' or anything, but I just can't really see this going in a direction I'd like anytime soon and I'm quickly tiring of being misunderstood. And bsb, if you understand what I'm saying then why do I keep getting suggestions to change things I never even mentioned? It's just getting silly.

This has turned into such a divisive topic that I'm not sure that - by the time this has been implemented - anyone will be quite happy with it. Because each of us seem to have our own unique ideas and opinions on this, and bioxx simply can't use all of them at once. Either some people are going to feel rather rejected because their idea wasn't picked, or he'll go with something different entirely and this whole thing will have been useless anyway. Not worth the creativity I could be using thinking up other things that actually have a chance of making it into the mod.

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bsb23, I suggest you go over your posts to make sure that your posts are clear before posting them. I have re-read your posts a couple times, and I'm still not sure what exactly your are talking about. Another thing, Lumireaver isn't forcing the player into specialization, as if you don't specialize you get an unspecialized enchant. I actually quite like his ideas.

Eternal, bsb23 is in fact not completly restating your ideas, but instead saying "I like that, but I think parts of it don't fit so wouldn't it be better like this".

cevkiv, I like that idea. It sounds like it would be like forging, but harder and easier to screw up. bsb23, um, the "recipe idea" has everything to do with what is being said. It's along the lines of the rune idea, except with extra difficulty added to enchanting.

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Why is this system becoming so arcane (no pun intended... Well, pun intended)? Why not simply enchant a gem, then affix it to the correct tool? All this talk about runes and glyphs and primordial ooze is making my head spin.

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Peffern, you make it sound WAY too simple. In fact, that's almost all we've been talking about, we've just been going into actual DETAIL.

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Okay so I've read this over and would first like to apologize to everyone I have commenting on this thread far too much. EternalUndeath I didn't mean to misunderstand your system and I apologize for that. Cevkiv you got a great idea, honestly I was against because it would mean most of my ideas would be removed it fits very well here. However, I'm going to try to do better, I have decided to make a document that explains what I have see coming from this system and EternalUndeath I will include as much of everyone's ideas as possible. Expect it by tomorrow morning. Hopefully this document will make more sense than me explaining things.

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