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Just_Another_Guy_:)

Enchantment system

187 posts in this topic

This is interesting also. How would we acquire recipes though? I'm feeling something like that achievement system I mentioned up there. (Certain achievements could be cleared on death) Taking advantage of the preexisting achievement mechanic has its merits. The recipe would just be selectable via a scrollable list.

How about this:

A research table. Made from bookcases, probably.

Open it up, and you can place runes inside of it. Various combinations make various things. Hit "Combine" or "Scribe" or whatever, and it deducts a number of experience levels based on the complexity of the recipe and spits out the formula for enchanting.

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Simple version:

Obtain a rune pattern (I'm all for this just not the random patterns on the ground)

Enchant your gem using the rune pattern.

Affix to tool.

The interesting part is how to get rune patterns. I support anything as long as it doesn't require finding rare formations in the world or an ungodly amount of effort (even metallurgy isn't too bad). Is that a good enough compromise for you guys? The research table is a perfectly cromulent way to get runes. As to people who support "learning" enchantments, how about the required items to get a rune in the research table are related. So for a creeper slaying enchant requires a lot of gunpowder to get the runes (which last a limited number of uses)

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Why is this system becoming so arcane (no pun intended... Well, pun intended)? Why not simply enchant a gem, then affix it to the correct tool? All this talk about runes and glyphs and primordial ooze is making my head spin.

No offense, but this is a mod that makes it complicated to dig holes.

The designing, forging and affixing of foci for arcane energies should be difficult and in-depth. I mean come on, we have trouble making tin chisels for Steve's sake.

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No offense, but this is a mod that makes it complicated to dig holes.

The designing, forging and affixing of foci for arcane energies should be difficult and in-depth. I mean come on, we have trouble making tin chisels for Steve's sake.

good points.

Edit: Although, personally, I almost wish digging holes was more complicated. I don't have to support my 1 by 2 shaft!

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Difficult and in-depth? Yes. Arbitrarily random and ridiculously complex? No. But I cede the point.

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Difficult and in-depth? Yes. Arbitrarily random and ridiculously complex? No. But I cede the point.

I think the basic issue here is that vanilla MC makes the enchanting process so simple it is almost insulting, and yet is so difficult in it's arbitrariness that it can be completely infuriating. Pretty much not-fun all around.

Striking a solid balance that makes the system difficult enough to be rewarding, arbitrary enough to be rare and exciting, but logical enough to be comprehensible, and skill based enough not to require hours of pointless grinding (I'm looking at you, Thaumcraft Quaesitum :angry: ) is a very difficult prospect.

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Wonderful. I can't +1 on phone but it's there in spirit. And yes, "thaumcraft" has become a dirty word on these forums.

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I'm going to basically say leave this thread for when enchanting is actually implemented. We have some good base ideas to start from, and then we can tweak and change with the experience of actually having used them.

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The best thing I think of in vanilla MC for what I would like the enchanting system to be like is a Blaze farm:

Finding a Nether Fortress? Difficult, requires you to have access to the Nether in the first place, and requires a bit of luck to do quickly, but you will find one eventually.

Getting some blaze rods? Dangerous, but anyone can do it with persistence.

Setting up a system where you can control the blaze spawns, kill the blazes, and collect the rods in complete safety? Difficult, dangerous, heavily involved, and ultimately, very rewarding.

Essentially, anyone can get the minimum benefit with a little bit of work, but if you really want to get the most out, you will need to invest heavily first.

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The best thing I think of in vanilla MC for what I would like the enchanting system to be like is a Blaze farm:

Finding a Nether Fortress? Difficult, requires you to have access to the Nether in the first place, and requires a bit of luck to do quickly, but you will find one eventually.

Getting some blaze rods? Dangerous, but anyone can do it with persistence.

Setting up a system where you can control the blaze spawns, kill the blazes, and collect the rods in complete safety? Difficult, dangerous, heavily involved, and ultimately, very rewarding.

Essentially, anyone can get the minimum benefit with a little bit of work, but if you really want to get the most out, you will need to invest heavily first.

+1.
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+2

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Love these ideas I am on my way on the document and I promise that it can be extremely simple or you can work really hard and get far more benefits.

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I'd like to have that artificing table, seems contrived, but it'd work if the "ingredient" input dialogue were relatively small, like 3x3, next to a rune slot, and a target item slot, with the tools/catalysts at the bottom. [so some anvil, with a 3x3 instead of a weld slot]

I am excited, for whatever it becomes.

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"contrived" THAT'S The word I was looking for. Thanks boea :). I agree and +1

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Okay, two things first off I'm having trouble with the document and now I'm on vacation, i apologize it will be done on wednseday. Second I'm having trouble think how to put in the three by three grid and also how does a gem actually get put into sword. I see a possibility of combining the two in the binding table.

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Hmmm...

...See now, I'm looking at all this and I'm thinking; 'What if there was a table like the planning table, where you could use special magic markings in rune shapes to make something like 'plans' for enchantments, that used gems instead of paper'?

And the plans wouldn't be something already known, or obvious... you could have little fairy circles generate in-world in random places (must have forest in the biome type), that have mushrooms growing in the shape of a random rune (though there might need to be some identifier to mark them as different from regular mushroom growths... maybe a faint particle effect? idk). There could be negative spell effects, like mentioned above, so you'd really never know what you're getting until you go to try it out! Or, bioxx could make it so that the correct patterns always have positive effects, but any pattern OTHER than a legit one generates a random negative effect. Also, perhaps only certain kinds of gems could hold certain runes, the same way only certain kinds of stone can hold certain ores?

Imagine wandering a forest near your home, and then coming across a cluster of glowing mushrooms arranged in a spiral - you rush home to your arcane workbench, and quickly scribe your new-found rune onto the first gem you happen to grab. You manage to get it right, even in your haste, but the gem remains lusterless. Damn! You etch the pattern into a second, more carefully chosen stone, and suddenly it starts shimmering with power - success!! Applying it to your sword and giving it a test swing, you clumsily knock it into one of your chickens...

...Setting the poor bird on fire. Awesome!! And pre-cooked food!! :D

Best idea I've seen on this thread. But I do think all the runes should work on all the gems, just with diminished effect on the wrong gem. Also like the ideas using exp. Each tier of gem could have a higher capacity for energy/lifeforce/magic, whatever you want to call it. But you can put in as little as you want and the strength of the enchantment scales accordingly. Or, even better, the enchantment strength is based on the gem, with each enchantment having a different gem as the strongest, and the amount of exp you put in the gem increases the duration of the enchantment. As you use the tool, the enchantment durability decreases, but you can refill it. Once you've depleted the gem you lose the enchantment until you refill the gem. The gem should break when the tool breaks, so that way you'll still need multiple gems.

The idea of using lifeforce in a gem to fuel the magic comes from Eragon :)

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The idea of using lifeforce in a gem to fuel the magic comes from Eragon :)

I loved the magic system in Eragon. It was really well developed, made allot of sense, and didn't break any of newton's laws on the side.
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I loved the magic system in Eragon. It was really well developed, made allot of sense, and didn't break any of newton's laws on the side.

Yes but it also required a truenaming system that minecraft has no way of implementing nor a need for

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We might be restricting which enchantments you can do. Enchantments might require recipes (sorta like anvil plans) but would be uncraftable, only ubtainable as loot from new dungeons. What do you guys think?

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So my idea was trash, bummer, oh well. So enchantments can only be found in dungeons and the whole 'skilled enchanter' idea is dead the enchantment just depends on you finding the dungeons. I like this ok and I think it would be a good simple way to do it, but I think we could do better. I suppose I'm judging a little early though. How would the actual enchanting work? Will gems be used in any way? Will any skill be involved? Are the enchantments reusable? Will the process be detailed and engaging like the anvil's GUI or will it be done with a press of a button?

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So my idea was trash, bummer, oh well. So enchantments can only be found in dungeons and the whole 'skilled enchanter' idea is dead the enchantment just depends on you finding the dungeons. I like this ok and I think it would be a good simple way to do it, but I think we could do better. I suppose I'm judging a little early though. How would the actual enchanting work? Will gems be used in any way? Will any skill be involved? Are the enchantments reusable? Will the process be detailed and engaging like the anvil's GUI or will it be done with a press of a button?

It's really only an idea atm, but I guess while adventuring, you might find a special kind of dungeon or crypt deep underground. Venturing inside, you would see desolate halls and rooms filled with the dead. Random chests scattered about would contain loot, such as potentially, weak armour and tools or arrows, with a rare chance of discovering enchantment scrolls. Each enchantment scroll would probably need different varieties of gems, and the quality of gem would probably determine how powerful the enchantment was. It gives a nice reward to adventuring and adds a trade-able commodity to SMP.
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We might be restricting which enchantments you can do. Enchantments might require recipes (sorta like anvil plans) but would be uncraftable, only ubtainable as loot from new dungeons. What do you guys think?

It's really only an idea atm, but I guess while adventuring, you might find a special kind of dungeon or crypt deep underground. Venturing inside, you would see desolate halls and rooms filled with the dead. Random chests scattered about would contain loot, such as potentially, weak armour and tools or arrows, with a rare chance of discovering enchantment scrolls. Each enchantment scroll would probably need different varieties of gems, and the quality of gem would probably determine how powerful the enchantment was. It gives a nice reward to adventuring and adds a trade-able commodity to SMP.

Woo, I was sort of on the money with my plan-like thing :3

Kinda removes the possibility of 'mastering' the arcane though.

I had kindof gotten attached to the idea of having to do part of it yourself, and maybe getting a negative result if you fucked up (drew the 'plan' wrong or whatever).

This way feels less like smithing (skill) and more like mining (luck and labor). Granted, there's nothing particularly wrong with that - I just thought we already had that end covered with having to find gems and all. These found-only plans, near as I can tell, could be replaced with pre-enchanted gems without anyone being able to tell the difference.

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Don't know exactly how we're going to implement it

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Oh, well, i'm happy that at least, the enchantments will stay in game :D although the original idea of this post was trashed...

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All of ideas minus pieces of eternals were trashed. But yeah I agree at least we are going to get enchanting. I just think more skill would be nice I suppose it could be in the binding process or whatever you guys will call it. Also the need for gems would be strange with this system, would the gems needed be dictated by the plan? Would we need multiple? Does the plan enchant the gem(s) or the tool? This system is starting to seem more and more iffy but at least it works.

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