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Lumireaver

How Do You Guys Feel About Forevertools [Repairing Tools & Armor]

76 posts in this topic

How do you get coke anyway?

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Which just makes me wonder why we can't use ground-up charcoal, coke, and/or sawdust as flux. (Honestly, I don't actually know if that's how it works.)

Realistically we should be able to, as charcoal and coke were both used as flux in addition to things like lime.

Heck, rosin is a flux derived from pine sap and is used in tin soldering.

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How do you get coke anyway?

You can't yet, but normally you would cook bituminous coal to remove the icky impurities. I'm not sure if an airless environment is necessary, as I remember reading once that old smiths would cook their coal by close to their burning coke, shuffling things around once the coal was clean.

edit: Beaten, kind of. Yeah, I posted a thread about resins and saps. I'm not going to lie though, I just want to collect shiny ambers. The millions of things tree by-products could be used for are just a bonus.

Also are you sure ground up charcoal/sawdust/ect was actually used just like that? Wouldn't they have to combine it with something in order to make it more like a wash instead of...dust?

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Which just makes me wonder why we can't use ground-up charcoal, coke, and/or sawdust as flux. (Honestly, I don't actually know if that's how it works.)

"Some of the earliest known fluxes were carbonate of soda, potash, charcoal, coke, borax,[1]lime,[2]lead sulfide[3] and certain minerals containing phosphorus."

-wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_%28metallurgy%29

So, yes, that is in fact how it works :3

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So, yes, that is in fact how it works :3

Yes, I read the wiki article too, but that doesn't specify how there were used. It's possible that those things were mixed with water, or something, I mean. I'm not knowledgeable on the subject so I can't say for sure.

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Yes, I read the wiki article too, but that doesn't specify how there were used. It's possible that those things were mixed with water, or something, I mean. I'm not knowledgeable on the subject so I can't say for sure.

Most of the organic ones were melted down. Flux DOES normally have to be in a liquid state for metal joining. Although limestone + hammer doesn't usually yield liquid to my knowledge, so...

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half of metal working irl is repair, that being said id like to see it ingame as well.

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Most of the organic ones were melted down. Flux DOES normally have to be in a liquid state for metal joining. Although limestone + hammer doesn't usually yield liquid to my knowledge, so...

So could (flux) be made in-game by crafting the materials with a full water bucket?

I mean, would that be reasonable?

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Just started playing as of Beta2 v36, made an account just to respond to this thread:

I think a couple options for this would be as such:

Armor and Blunt Tools/Weapons

1. Option A: Use the anvil to craft an ingot into "small sheets" directly, an ingot would yield 4 small sheets. Could use a pattern for this if needed.

1. Option B: Use the anvil with a bladed item like an metal axe (of same tier or higher as sheet being cut) to cut sheet metal into small sheets, one sheet would yield 8 small sheets.

2. Weld small sheet onto item requiring repair.

3. Work partially repaired item to increase durability by a fixed amount based on what is being repaired, certain items or armor would take more small sheets than others, obviously a chestplate would take more than a helmet or hammer. Max out durability that can be repaired to at 80%.

Bladed or Sharpish Tools/Weapons

Option A:

Add a sharpening stone on a turnwheel with GUI and a need to keep the wheel spinning and keep an eye on the weapon/tool itself so as to not oversharpen and actually decrease durability.

Option B:

Create a new tool called a sharpening stone that is placed on the anvil with the tool to be repaired and then hit the corresponding options like in normal forging. Sharpening stone would be crafted from metal and smooth stone directly on a crafting table, or forge a sharpening stone assembly from an ingot on the anvil and then add a crafted piece of stone to complete it.

Personally I'm not huge on enchanting, but a more advanced system could be implemented for repairing that kind of stuff, the above was all in mind for non-enchanted items.

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maybe tools with blades such as the scythe, sword, axe, or chisel could be re-sharpened on a waterwheel. you could possibly reduce durability on the tool if you mess up. anything that requires a double ingot to make could be patched back to new with a single ingot, that way you would theoretically only need to make one of each double ingot item unless you get careless and allow something to break.

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maybe tools with blades such as the scythe, sword, axe, or chisel could be re-sharpened on a waterwheel. you could possibly reduce durability on the tool if you mess up. anything that requires a double ingot to make could be patched back to new with a single ingot, that way you would theoretically only need to make one of each double ingot item unless you get careless and allow something to break.

sir, it might be a wise decision to look at the post right above yours, it says almost exactly the same thing
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So could (flux) be made in-game by crafting the materials with a full water bucket?

I mean, would that be reasonable?

Well the thing is, many inorganic flux materials are insoluble in water. I think they use a special oil or something, idk.

And the organic fluxes (which are the most commonly used) are, as I said, melted down.

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hi, been playing this mod for a few weeks now and i love it so i thought id give my 2 cent on this topic.

I think there should definitely be a repair system but I don’t think "fathers axe" should be more durable then the new axe you just forged. A new axe should be better than a rusted old axe.

This is what i propose:

If the tool/ armor breaks it drops metal shards.

  • The number of shard would be random and depend on the number of ingots used for the tool/armor. Example, an axe = 1-3 shards and an sword 2-6 shards
  • The sole purpose of the shards is to melt them down. 1 shard would give 30% of an ingot.
in this example on average 60% of the metal used can be reused after the tool/armor breaks or you could see it as you lose 40% of the metal by letting it break

if you want to repair your tool/armor

  • if it’s a tool you would go to the crafting bench put the tool + ??? and get the tool's head (process of removing the handle)
  • you would then take the head to the anvil and wield it together with liquid working temperature metal of the same kind as the tool's
  • the amount of liquid metal used would depend on the tool/armor and the % of durability lost. Example an axe that is almost destroyed would use almost 25% of an ingot while a chestplate that’s almost broken would use almost 100% of an ingot
  • the surplus metal would stay in the welding slot and an crude object would be created in the output slot
  • the crude object would then need to be reforged with the correct plan.
  • the resulting durability and the maximum durability would depend on the result of the forging. let’s say you reforged your axe perfectly it would have maximum durability but it would lose 10% of its maximum durability. Let’s say you messed up bad, your durability would be only 90% of its maximum durability and its maximum durability would be lowered by 15%. this is assuming the axe was almost destroyed.
it’s would be more efficient in the short run as it would cost 25% of the metal used to get an tool/armor from 1 durability to potentially 90%(of the original) durability.

A little statistic using the numbers I proposed:

You’re a master smith and you have a tool/armor you reforged 4 times from 1 durability:

If you let it break you get the same as the you would any tool/armor, in other words on average you would get 60% of the metal back and it would cost you 40% additional metal to make an new tool at 100% durability

if you repair it again when it has 1 durability you use 25% of the original metal cost and you get an item at 59%-60% of the original durability.(0.9^5)

About the same bang for the buck, but the new tool will last more than 150% longer than the old tool and the old reforged tool would keep its enchantments.

Something like this is what I personally would like to see.

Maybe an exponential curve for the %durability before repair to %max durability loss? (the more you wait to repair your tool the less efficient repairing becomes)

Maybe sharpening would be another thing like: sharpening a “bladed†tool will make it 10% more efficient for the next 200 swings?

What do you guys think?

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maybe the tool could be remelted into an ingot with the same durability as the tool had down to 1/9 of an unshaped.

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Well the thing is, many inorganic flux materials are insoluble in water. I think they use a special oil or something, idk.

And the organic fluxes (which are the most commonly used) are, as I said, melted down.

I believe a popular "cheep" flux additive used in the past would have been available animal fats like lard, tallow, and whale blubber back before crude was extracted from the ground. Most modern flux however uses synthetics, or oil derivatives.

I think this would be a great tie in to butchery and a non food use for animal fats from harvested carcasses.

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I believe a popular "cheep" flux additive used in the past would have been available animal fats like lard, tallow, and whale blubber back before crude was extracted from the ground. Most modern flux however uses synthetics, or oil derivatives.

I think this would be a great tie in to butchery and a non food use for animal fats from harvested carcasses.

i believe you are right but i couldn’t find any mention of animal fat being used a flux more than 400 years ago. On a side note I also couldn’t find any use of animal fat in cuisine that long ago either. But fat candles are definitely old enough.

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Okay. Re-sharpening a sword, scythe, or axe is fine. Sharpen it as it dulls. Restore SOME of the function, but not the overall durability. A sharper sword is more useful, but is still made of metal, and can still rust, break, bend and/or chip. We're not using laminated forging, so chipping is a big issue. The tool will eventually fail under duress.

A hoe REALLY isn't going to wear down beyond use after a few thousand uses. I've had a steel flathoe for 12 years. I've barely sharpened it, and I keep a garden. Just keep it clean and it's fine.

A chisel on the other hand, will fail. The metal will warp and chip away rather quickly, as we cannot temper the metal to improve it's rigidity.

Armour gets dented, punctured. The metal will eventually fail even after a few patches, because it's not just the material being depleted, it's the bonds IN the metal that are being damaged.

Repairing tools is a way to restore a small ammount of life to it, early on. If it's wearing down, keep it in good condition.

Basically, tools should only be able to be repaired if their within 75%. Because you don't sharpen an axe after it's began to chip or crack. You do it before then, and you oil the metal to protect it from corrosion and the elements. Repairing tools--Maintaining tools...Is what should be suggested...And I kinda am, I guess. You need to clean metal to keep it free of corrosion and such, and you need to replace the wooden components of such as they wear.

Mainly, I'm suggesting that flax or other oils or animal fat to protect the blade (restore less than 10% of the uses.) and to sharpen those tools which have blades (restore 15% of the uses) rendering the tool in a "like new" condition. Under 75%, the tool really cannot be saved unless it's recast. You'd need a mold, sand, chalk, pitch or a pitch substitute, and a manageable heat, as you don't want to heat the metal too much. Since making the tool is laborious, repair should be as well.

That is an easy way to balance repair for tools. Armour, roughly the same deal, except instead of sharpening, re-hammering following the same guidelines as sharpening. Adding metal as needed to replace thinned spots from flexing. Armour it makes sense to add metals since it's being displaced as it's struck in small amounts, and the odd flake smashing off due to the lack of tempering.

And the idea of something receiving a buff for being repaired a lot? If you've had a tool for a long time, it's wearing down at it's core, ebbing closer to it's eventual failure point. No amount of repair can prevent that. Metal under stress cannot last forever no matter how strong.

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I like the idea of improving tools so they get more condition. Why not adding a sharpening step for axes,knives,saw,sword... so they don't get damaged as quickly as an unsharpened one. Of course after a certain ammount of uses the tool looses this and gets damaged at normal rate until you sharpen it again.

Also for the rust thing that has been stated earlier: I think too that this would be a great use for new natural objects: Like you can make oil of olives or creat vinegar to clean them.

For the repairing part I can only support what has been stated above: take some metal pieces (no ingot, maybe a heated nuget or a semi-filled bar) to repait the tool at an anvil.

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hey everyone! I'm semi-back after 3 weeks of being gone. sorry for the absence, i couldn't really tell about it, all is good now. So hey, this thread is still here? I will stick back to my earlier argument that while I agree with Lumi, there really is no point in allowing tools to be repaired if a new one could just be re-created. My argument is that, with enchantments, and perhaps something along the lines of the Goblin Tinkerer from Terraria, there would be a reason to repair your tools, instead of making new ones.

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hey everyone! I'm semi-back after 3 weeks of being gone. sorry for the absence, i couldn't really tell about it, all is good now. So hey, this thread is still here? I will stick back to my earlier argument that while I agree with Lumi, there really is no point in allowing tools to be repaired if a new one could just be re-created. My argument is that, with enchantments, and perhaps something along the lines of the Goblin Tinkerer from Terraria, there would be a reason to repair your tools, instead of making new ones.

if you think about it, this is exactly what vanilla got wrong, repairing destroys enchantments there :P
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OmegaForte has a point though infinitly repairing something would quite make sense. Unless there some magic process to fix that, which may be taking it too far.

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While repairing INFINITELY is somewhat ridiculous, i strongly approve of the management system, as i watch my metal tools far into disrepair, i lament that the metal used in it's forging is unsalvageable. which is another good idea, throwing a used tool in a forge/bloomery should remelt the metal with an intrinsic loss of material + wear. So, if you have a tin tool, but don't want to waste the metal, why not remelt it into bronze, or another tool.

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While repairing INFINITELY is somewhat ridiculous, i strongly approve of the management system, as i watch my metal tools far into disrepair, i lament that the metal used in it's forging is unsalvageable. which is another good idea, throwing a used tool in a forge/bloomery should remelt the metal with an intrinsic loss of material + wear. So, if you have a tin tool, but don't want to waste the metal, why not remelt it into bronze, or another tool.

I forget where, but I already saw this suggested in another thread. I even cobbled together a bit of pseudocode describing an algorithm for determining how much metal you'd get back based on the item's damage when tossed in.

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I forget where, but I already saw this suggested in another thread. I even cobbled together a bit of pseudocode describing an algorithm for determining how much metal you'd get back based on the item's damage when tossed in.

Ah well, i just sampled a bit of your psuedocode in another thread, bravo :D But, i apologize for the rehash, i was unaware of the previous statement.
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