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Maga

Archery Overhaul

60 posts in this topic

This is an updated OP. The first version was trying to be redundantly realistic, hopefully this is better focused on quality and not just random detail overload.

In real life crafting a quality bow can be done with little more than a knife and a straight piece of wood but it wont last long and it won't be very powerful. Right now the recipe for a bow is a huge let down. Close range weapons have a levelling system and the only long range weapon in the game is nothing but a vanilla item with “longer hold = stronger shot”. I would like to see bow making take on some similar qualities to metal working in this mod (things like scaled tiers of weapon, a unique GUI for crafting, skill with associated benefits ...etc)

If you are wondering why this is such a long post...

It would be easy to make a short post that says “Buff archery!”, in fact many posts of this nature exist for various aspect of the game. Instead of simply complaining loudly about the current state of bows and arrows I prefer to be more solution oriented and actually propose a detailed system to fix the problem. If you think this is too much detail, perhaps you are right about some parts but overall I would disagree. Look at the level of complexity that goes into metals in TFC in contrast to Vanilla Minecraft. There are the basics that you see but loads more details in the background. What we currently have is more or less the vanilla mechanics of archery. Instead of proposing a half-baked idea I have chosen to flesh it out and display a possibility for what archery could (and I believe should) be in Terafiirmacraft.

Mechanics of Archery

•When drawing a bow, any length of draw will shoot an arrow (this makes sense but is currently not the case)

•The velocity of the arrow is determined by the type of bow used and whether or not it was drawn back fully

•Holding an already fully drawn bow for a longer time will NOT increase the damage done by the resulting shot

•Holding a fully drawn bow can only be done for a certain amount of time before your arm tires and the shot cancels

-The time limit is determined by the draw weight of the bow and the archery level of the player

-A bow that can only be held for 5 seconds by someone who is level 0 might be held for 20 seconds by someone who is level 50 and indefinitely by someone who is level 200 (numbers are random to illustrate progression)

-Gaining archery skill adds time to the limit for low level bows faster than it adds time to high level bows

•Quiver HUD will show quantities of each arrow type and which is currently selected (hotkeys to rotate selection)

•In real life, firing an arrow results in the bow tilting forward after the arrow is loose

-This would also be added to prevent people from grinding targets with no challenge once they find an angle that works

•There is a brief reload time between shooting an arrow and starting to draw the next one (mimicking the time needed to nock an arrow in real life, high level archers would be able to nock new arrows faster to increase their rate of fire just a bit)

•Shooting an arrow will spook nearby passive mobs if the arrow

-does not kill the animal instantly

or

-hits the ground near the animal(s)

•The factors that affect the damage of a shot are

-The velocity of the arrow

-The type of arrow

(Damage is determined by the base dmg of the arrow type multiplied by a value that is influenced by velocity)

•The draw weight of the bow only loosely reflects the damage increase, it does not directly influence damage

•The draw weight only determines the strength of the bowstring needed

Archery skill

•Archery skill would be gained by

-crafting bows (highest, variation depending on type of bow)

-crafting arrows (lowest)

-hitting targets (none-high)

-hitting players (medium)

-hitting passive mobs (medium)

-hitting hostile mobs (high)

•Archery skill would

-increase durability of bows when crafting (similar to smithing)

-slightly decrease the time it takes you to draw any bow

-give you more time to aim before your arm gets tired

-slightly decrease the time it takes to nock an arrow (time between firing and starting the next draw)

Target Practice

Targets are created by placing thatch in a 3x3 wall and firing an arrow into the center block. The thatch becomes an immovable entity with 2 hitboxes, the outer ring of thatch is a separate hitbox and the middle block which turns red in color and serves as the “bullseye”

Arrows must hit the bullseye to gain archery skill

The amount of skill gained would depend on the distance from the target

-at close range (none)

-at mid range (medium)

-at long range (high)

•The definition of close, medium and long range would be different for each bow

Stone age arrows

Stone arrowheads are made using the existing knapping interface

Each stone is knapped into 1 or two arrowheads using this pattern (or mirror images/rotations)

1 arrowhead

Posted Image

2 arrowheads

Posted Image

•Stone arrows

-have the lowest base damage value

-will break when they hit anything except a target, dropping a fletched stick at the site of impact

-have no effect on metal-armored players and mobs

-have a strong debuff against leather-armored players and mobs

-can be crafted in a 2x2 grid using a stick + feather + arrowhead (Yields one arrow, 4 arrows from one head is silly)

or

-crafting a fletched stick with a stone arrowhead

•Flint arrows

-have a base damage value slightly higher than stone

-will break when they hit the ground or a metal-armored entity, dropping a fletched stick at the site of impact

-have no effect on metal-armored players and mobs

-have no debuff against leather armored players and mobs

•Flint arrows could be made crafting a single piece of flint, yields 2 arrowheads (or it could be done using the knapping mechanic for stone, or the flint could be used as an arrowhead the way it is currently)

Metal age arrows

•Same recipe as stone age arrows (feather + stick + arrowhead = arrow)

•Metal arrowheads of copper and bronze can be cast in a clay mold

-one arrowhead mold can be cast into 4 arrowheads

-one arrowhead mold consumes 50 units of molten copper/bronze (net yield is 8 arrowheads per ingot)

•Wrought iron, steel and black steel must be worked on an anvil to create arrowheads

- First you must work an ingot into a pile of small ingots, this is made using

Punch, Last

Punch, Not last

Punch, Not last

-Working one pile of small ingots gives 8 arrowheads (same net yield as casting)

•There are 2 types of metal arrows: Broadhead and Blunt

Broadheads

-The clay mold for casting broadheads would look like this

Posted Image

-Making broadheads on an anvil would be done by working a pile of small ingots using

Hit, Last

Hit, Not last

Shrink, Not last

•Broadheads do piercing damage and cause a bleed effect for an additional bit of damage 1 second later

•Broadheads have a chance to break if they hit a metal-armored mob or player. (chance decreased with better metals)

Blunt Heads

-The clay mold for casting blunt heads would look like this

Posted Image

-Making blunt heads on an anvil would be done by working a pile of small ingots using

Upset, Last

Draw, Not last

Any, Not last

•Blunt heads do crushing damage but are only effective against skeletons and birds, they will stun larger (non-skeleton) mobs for a brief moment (time increases with better metals)

•Blunt heads do not break

Bowstrings

•To make a bowstring hold at least 8 string in your hand and alternate left and right clicking (simulates plaiting)

•After 8 right clicks and 8 left clinks the string is consumed and you will have a bowstring with a 8 pound draw strength.

•Hold the bowstring in your hand and for every following 4 sets of left and right clicks following the initial creation of the string, 4 string is consumed from the inventory and 4 pounds is added to the draw strength of the bowstring

•In order to string a bow, the draw strength must be equal to or greater than the draw weight of the bow.

Stone Age Bows

Basic Self Bow

The staple long range weapon of the stone age.

Specs

-Draw weight 16lbs

-Draw speed 3s

-Draw hold time 8s at level 0

-Durability 300 uses

Crafting

•Splitting a log with a stone axe (by crafting together) gives a Rough Wood Stave

•Right clicking holding a Rough Stave and having a stone knife on your hotbar opens a GUI to tiller the stave into a bow

Diagram of tillering for stone age bows (brown section=wood and is 1500x100 pixels thick, everything is proportional, 1 unit = 10 pixels)

Posted Image

-The Rough Stave is displayed across the screen as a long rectangular shape with a slot at the top right hand corner that takes the knife from your hotbar automatically (to help players know they need to use it)

-The faint shape of a finished bow could be displayed above the visual of the stave to help the player know what to do

-A Rough Stave has a max thickness of 10 units and a minimum thickness of 8 units, wood in the sections outlined in red may or may not be there.

-This means that there is always 6 units of thickness that goes through the center of the entire stave

•Left clicking with a knife in section 1a will remove a unit of thickness from the top of section 1

•Left clicking with a knife in section 1b will remove a unit of thickness from the bottom of section 1

-If all the wood is gone in 1b then clicking in 1b will start to remove the wood at the bottom of 1a

•To successfully turn the Rough Stave into a Basic Self Bow (unstrung) you must thin the Rough Stave so that there is

-1 unit in section 1a

-2 units in section 2a

-3 units in section 3a

-2 units in section 4a

-1 unit in section 5a

(The shape of the bow is what matters, the sections with wood in them can be translated vertically up or down so long as the shape remains intact)

Diagram for shape of finished Basic Self Bow

Posted Image

•If any segment is left too thick when exiting the GUI the item will remain a Rough Stave and the tooltip will display Item has been carved

•If any segment is thinned past the point of being able to create a bow, the Stave will show Ruined on the tooltip when the GUI is exited

•To string the bow

-make sure you have a bowstring with the correct draw weight in your inventory

-hold right click with the bow in hand (like you were firing) and the unstrung bow will bend back

-when it reaches full draw the bowstring is consumed and you now hold a Basic Self Bow

Bamboo Bow

Not as powerful or durable as the Basic Self Bow but much easier to acquire.

Specs

-Draw weight 8lbs

-Draw speed 2s

-Draw hold time infinite

-Durability 120 uses

Crafting

•Harvesting the bottom block of a 3-tall sugarcane with a knife takes 10 seconds and drops a Bamboo Stave

(similar to breaking grass with a knife yields an intact resource while punching will destroy it)

•A bamboo stave only needs to be strung using the same mechanic for stringing the Basic Self Bow and it is ready for use

Metal Age Bows

(Work in progress)

Other features I can’t decide on

-Multiple bowstring materials (string, jute fibers, sinew…etc)

-Bowstring durability (based on material & draw strength)

-Sights to help aim (a use for gems)

If you want to read the original post for quotes, references or just to see where this idea started here you go.

Hi, thanks for coming over to read this, it means a lot to me.

I'll start off by acknowledging that I'm totally new to this forum, so none of you will know me. I hope that doesn't affect your opinion of my ideas too much.

My first time making a bow in terrafirmacraft was a bit of a let down. It's such a delicate, long, time consuming and skilled process in real life that I expected something fun and challenging in game. My goal for this thread is to show you how Archery in TFC could be something that takes time to master, has good rewards, takes effort, patience and ads to the immersion of the game as well as adding another dynamic to SMP where players would become skilled bowyers, serving their communities and making high quality weapons for their friends. Having a good bow would be a point of pride on a server, where crafting the best bow can take a full year to do it properly.

I couldn't get this archery business off my mind so i threw it into words on a page. Nearing the end of my venting I realized I wanted to make a suggestion thread, so I made a forum account but to my horror (Should have seen this coming a mile away) a fellow by the name of Jed1314 already asked for an ranged weapon overhaul. No disrespect to him or his ideas and please know I wrote all of this before I found his thread.

Here goes.

I think everyone was happy when they saw the quiver added but the sad fact is that Archery is currently a 2 and a half tier system.

Tier 1- You have no bow. You have no arrows.

Tier 2- You pluck 2 pheasants and kill 3 spiders. You now have the best bow and more arrows than you will use in a year.

Tier 2.5- You kill a few pigs, make your first saw, hammer and find a few flux stone for making leather. You now have a quiver.

Tier 3- There is no tier 3, you have everything you will ever have. That's it. You're done.... good job. Go mine some copper.

As you can see there more than a little is room for improvement. I am sure that the developers are well aware of this but nevertheless I would like to voice my opinions in hopes that I am not the only one who would like to see this aspect of weaponry fleshed out in the near future. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will even agree with the specifics ;) Bow-making is a highly complicated art form, many people devote their lives to it and are still getting better. Obviously metalworking is the current focus of complexity but I think archery could be a great runner-up. Am I suggesting a ridiculous amount of detail? Yes. Would it take a ton of code? Yes. Could it be simplified? Absolutely. This is just to show what it COULD be. As always it's up to the devs to determine what it actually WILL be.

First I will give you a nice list. Then, if you're interested, there will be more detailed explanations of the logic and rational that went into the the things on the list. That will go under the list. Have a nice day :3

Condensed list of additions to archery

Archery skill- Become a Robin Hoodlum!

Multi-step bow/arrow creation- Get crafty!

Different bows/arrows- Upgrade your gear!

Comprehensive list of additions to Archery

New Blocks/Items/Thingies

Straight Stave

The first step in making any bow above bamboo is to acquire a straight stave of the needed wood type. Straight staves are worked on the bowyer station to create bows. They drop from breaking logs that were not placed by a player and can only be dropped from the log block you are breaking, not from any logs above it that will fall when you chop below them. They are an uncommon → rare drop. (Higher level archers get a better chance of a straight stave dropping)

Tiller

Crafted using 5 planks (must be from hardwood tree) fill center column and place a plank in both bottom corners

Used when crafting higher tier bows, after stretching unfinished bow on it you can see where more wood must be removed to progress to the next stage.

Contains a slot for a string. String must be equal to the draw weight of the bow to use it on the tiller

Drying rack

3 planks on bottom row and a triangle of 3 sticks, can hold 1 bow (and possibly a certain amount of food) for drying

Horn/Antler

Mob drop from rams or deer, respectively

Used in crafting composite bows

Sinew

Rare drop from pigs, cows & sheep

Consistent drop from deer

Used in crafting composite bows

Collagen/Glue

Collagen is a by product from scraping soaked hides, it is the connective tissue on animal hides. Every 4 collagen (stacks to 32), kept very hot*** (or hotter) in a fire pit for a full 2 minutes with enough empty bottles in one of the output slots will produce a bottle of glue. Bottles of glue have a multiple use durability and are used to fasten different parts of higher level bows together.

Linseed (Crop) aka “Flax”

Harvesting flax yields flax fiber and 3-6 seeds.

Cooking 32 seeds in a fire pit with empty bottles in an output slot will produce bottles of linseed oil. Flax fiber is processed the same way as jute.

Osage Orange (existing tree) Tier VI

Osage orange is one of the best woods for bow-making irl. Since we already have an orange tree i decided it would be simpler to use it for this. When harvesting the trunk blocks of an orange tree you will get either a bent, warped, knotty or straight stave. Straight staves make up 5% of drops and are the only stave that can make composite bows and stocks for crossbows. The other staves are useless for bow making but can be cut into lumber and crafted into orange wood planks to make the Bowyer Station (new multi-block structure)

Lemonwood (existing tree) Tier V

Same mechanic as osage orange but using lemon trees. This wood is good enough for a recurve bow but not composite. Chance to get a straight Lemonwood stave is 8%

Yew (new tree) Tier IV

Spawns like any other regular tree (not tfc fruit tree). It is required to make longbows. A straight yew stave has a 10% chance to drop but only from the block you are cutting, none of the tree that falls down above your axe cut has a chance to produce a stave.

Maple/Oak/Ash (existing trees) Tier III

All these trees already exist. Harvesting a straight stave is a 15%chance. These woods are needed to make shortbows.

Bamboo (new item) Tier II

Bamboo staves are harvested by breaking the bottom block of a 3-high sugarcane that grew on its own. The higher archery level you are the faster you can successfully harvest a bamboo stave. You have to be careful, so breaking the block at low levels will take about 45 seconds.

Big Stick (new item) Tier I

Crafted with any 3 sticks diagonal in the crafting table along with a knife in any empty slot. This is used to make beginner’s bows.

Chromite (new ore)

Contains chromium, used in making spring steel

Spiegeleisen (new alloy ore)

A natural iron alloy ore with 15% manganese, 85% iron. Ideal for spring steel because the manganese content is already the right amount. Mix 92% Spiegeleisen and 8% Chromium in a crucible to obtain stainless steel alloy (new crucible mixture).

Spring-Tempered Stainless Steel

Made by repeatedly working stainless steel ingot on an anvil. Every Hit, Hit, Hit finish has a 10% chance to produce spring tempered stainless steel

Bow Strings (new item)

Instead of spiders dropping string they drop silk threads. Hold silk threads (at least 16) in your hand and alternately left and right click in the air (8 right clicks and 8 left clicks). This will plait the threads together into a bowstring with an 8 pound draw limit. In order to make stronger bowstring for higher level bows, repeat the process while holding a bow string in your hand, silk threads in your inventory will be consumed and for every set of 8 left clicks and 8 right clicks (still alternating) 16 threads will be used and the string will gain 8 pounds of draw limit.

Target (new placeable item)

Large targets are made by crafting 2x2 thatch with 2 planks underneath. Hitting a large target adds to your archery skill. Distance to target is factored in.

Small targets are made with thatch overtop a plank. Hitting a small target adds more xp then a large one. Distance is factored in.

Poison (new item)

It would involve 2 new poisonous crops, golden poppies and cassava and appropriate steps for processing the raw plant material into poison. Higher level poisons could be created using other mechanics involving poison dart frogs or abalone shells, to name a few possibilities.

(More on this idea if you guys are interested)

Addition of archery skill

-Archery skill increased by

-hitting targets (skill increase based on distance to target, size of target and where you hit)

-hitting mobs (skill increase based on distance, size of target and how clean the shot was)

-hitting players (skill increase based on distance and where you hit)

-Archery skill will influence

8]-how fast you draw ANY bow

8]modifies the base value for a faster pull

8]-how steady you are with ANY bow

8]crosshair waivers while holding a draw, this affects how quickly and how much your aim will stabilize after drawing a bow (different from bow accuracy)

8]-how fast you can nock another arrow

8]this is obvious, an experienced archer can rapidly draw and fire arrows but a beginner will take more time to grab for his quiver and nock the next arrow

8]-how long you can hold bows at full draw

8]Bows with heavier pulls wear out your arm faster and holding at full draw for too long starts to make your cursor move erratically until you are forced to cancel the shot

8]-what types of bows and arrows you can use

8]If you attempt to use a bow that is above your level you will get a message saying “Maybe I should practice on something a little easier first.” and you will not be able to fire an arrow

8]NOTE At lower levels the archery skill provides more of a boost per (x number of levels)

8]For expample: (using random numbers) getting to level 100 might take 0.4 seconds off your draw times but getting to level 1000 might only take off 1.3 seconds.

8]

Bow attributes

Draw speed (in seconds)**

Base draw time to a max velocity arrow, holding a bow at full draw for 10 seconds doesn't make the arrow fly any further then holding it there for one second, but it will make your aim a little more steady. This should be a mechanic, it takes only a few seconds to reach max potential energy at full draw but in order to steady your aim you must hold it there while you line up your target. Hold it too long and your arm will get tired (at higher skill levels you can hold bows full drawn much longer as you increase in strength)

Draw weight (in pounds) **

Main factor in determining the resulting velocity of the arrow at any given stage of the draw. In combination with the arrow used and the skill level of the archer this helps determine damage. In conjunction with archery skill this attribute also determines how long you can hold a bow at full draw before your arms gives out.

Accuracy (max angle variation in degrees)*** (low-high)**

When the arrow is loosed it will fly at an angle slightly off what was aimed. Higher tiers of bows will fire shots with less and less deviation from the crosshair. ONLY THE WORD VALUE is shown on when shift+hover cursor, the decimal value is the max angle it can deviate and is used only for calculations.

Durability (uses, numerical) *

This is not what breaks the bow. When a bow reaches 20% of it’s durability it starts to lose it’s spring and fires with 5% less velocity for each additional percent of durability lost until it reaches 0% durability and the bow loses its spring entirely. A bow below 20% durability can be re-tillered at a bowyer station to get it back to 50% of it’s original durability, the 50% becomes it’s new max durability so when it reaches 20% of that it can be tillered again if the player wishes to get a few more shots out of it. Bows can be re-tillered no more than twice, after that there is not enough wood left and it becomes a decorative item.

-Decay (dry >>> rotten)*

Historically the composite bows that had sinew, horn, bone and wood in them were used in dry regions because of the higher risks of decay. With the exception of the crossbow, bows will become progressively wetter when they are taken outside in the rain, when taken swimming or when stored on a tool rack that does not have a solid block over top it during a storm. While exposed to water the bow progresses from damp → wet → soaked → musty → mildewed → decaying → rotten. The rate of progressions increases a you go along Here is information on each stage

Water-proofing of bows can be done by crafting the bow with a bottle of linseed oil (new crop) and a wool cloth (cloth not consumed, empty bottle returned) Each waterproofing lasts 3 days.

Damp No effect on using the bow, serves as preliminary warning.

Wet 25% chance to use 2 durability per shot

Soaked 75% chance to use 2 durability per shot, velocity decrease 10%

Musty 2 durability per shot, 25%chance to use 4 durability per shot, velocity decrease 20%

Mildewed 5 durability per shot, 30% to use 20 durability per shot, velocity decrease by 35%, 4% chance to break on use

Decaying 30 durability per shot, velocity decrease by 50%, 20% chance to break on use

Rotten Bow breaks.

Drying To dry a damp, wet or soaked bow more quickly you must place it on a drying rack (new block) with one air block in between the rack and a lit campfire or 2 air blocks from a lit forge. (This could also be used as the mechanic used to dry fruits, vegetables and meats) Note, if the bow is in the musty, mildewed or decaying stages a drying rack MUST be used, air drying (in the inventory or on a tool rack with no fire) may only be used to dry a bow that is damp, wet or soaked but will take significantly longer.

-Brittleness (supple >>> brittle, affected by temperature)*

This attribute only affects the crossbow because the part that bends aka, the prod (or lathe, in this case because it is made of steel) is metal and so becomes much more brittle when cold. Along with 2x rot progression on the composite bow this mechanic serves to reduce power-creep in archery.

8]Supple Ambient temp above 0º, no debuffs.

8]Cold**** Ambient temp between 0º and -20º, 1% chance crossbow lathe will shatter when both winding or firing

8]Brittle Ambient temp below 20º, 10%chance crossbow lathe will shatter when both winding or firing

* indicates information displayed with hovering cursor over item

** indicates information when shift+hover cursor

***(Note that deviation should be randomized to fit WITHIN the max angle and should not always BE the max angle. ie: a bow with terrible accuracy might shoot right where you are aiming, but it’s unlikely)

****Realistically this is the brittle temperature of high-carbon steel, stainless spring-forged steel would be fine well under 100º celsius. For believability though I think it’s fine.

Different bow types

Beginner’s bow

6s

12lbs

Dreadful accuracy (1.4º)

120

Bamboo bow

7s

22lbs

Poor accuracy (1.1º)

220/220

1.5x rot progression speed

Short bow

5s

30lbs

Fair accuracy(0.6º)

410/410

Can be fired while riding a horse

Long bow

6s

45lbs

Fair accuracy (0.55º)

440/440

Recurve bow

4s

60lbs

Good accuracy (0.2º)

710/710

Can be fired while riding a horse

Composite bow

3s

80lbs

Very good accuracy (0.025º)

1300/1300

2x rot progression speed

Can be fired while riding a horse

Spring-Tempered Steel crossbow (fires steel bolts)

16-Draw speed

150-Draw weight ca

Very good accuracy (0.1º)

1200/1200

susceptible to cold

CONCERNING ACCURACY

If you are wondering about the accuracy values I will briefly explain. Using basic trigonometric ratios you can determine how much an arrow can go off course. Assuming all arrows fly straight lines (no gravity) and every bow was capable of shooting 100 blocks. A bow with a max accuracy variation of 1.5º COULD hit roughly 2.6 blocks to either side and up or down of where you aimed. (Keep in mind the bows with the more terrible accuracies will not be able to fire great distances anyway so this will be diminished) A bow with 1º COULD be up to be 1.7 blocks off center at 100 meter distance. A bow with 0.1º COULD be up to 0.175 blocks off center at same distance. Remember that I say COULD because it will more often hit somewhere between center and the max variation. Your shooting won’t ALWAYS be off. Fewer mistakes when crafting a bow will be able to make the accuracy slightly better (and visa versa), more on crafting later (if you guys are interested)

Crafting Arrows

Too many arrowheads spoil the broth… Not sure who makes arrowhead soup but I’ll keep that in mind.

All arrow recipes are shapeless and involve the arrow head, a stick and a feather.

Crossbow bolts are crafted with a bolt shaft on top a feather.

All arrows have 0% chance to break when fired into a target (right clicking target will pull arrows out one at a time starting with the most recent addition

Stone age arrows

Stone arrowhead

Lowest Damage

Crafted using the existing knapping interface

Created 2 arrowheads at a time using this technique (requires some finesse, horizontal and vertical mirror images also viable) http://i.imgur.com/x1F9S37.png All arrows with stone heads will break on impact unless the arrow hits a player/mob/target in which case igneous extrusive arrows have a 60% chance of dropping when the animal/player dies. Igneous Intrusive have a 40% chance to do the same. Metamorphic rocks are at 20% chance and sedimentary stone cannot be used to make arrowheads. (IMHO it shouldn’t be used for any tools… who ever heard of stone tool being made from chalk?) If the arrow is not retrieved then the animal broke it off and it is gone for good

When hitting the ground with a missed shot only the head of the arrow breaks or all the birds would be dead in a week. Simply recraft broken arrow with a fresh arrowhead and try again.

Flint arrowheads

Same dmg as stone (but can cause bleed, can add poison)

I don’t think the current recipe has anything wrong with it. If you added flint knapping and used the same knapping recipe as stone to double your arrowhead output that would be appreciated by people who keep firing arrows at the ground and breaking them.

Flint arrows would use the same breaking/repairing mechanic and percentages as igneous extrusive rock, but they have a 30% chance to cause a mob or player to bleed for an additional 50% of regular damage due to being sharper than their stone cousins.

Flint arrows are the only arrows that can be treated with poisons to create poison arrows. (poisons contain compounds that could react with metals and become useless, also serves to prevent OP arrows with both high damage and poison)

Metal age arrows

All metal arrowheads are produced by working metal ingots in an anvil.

Start ingot with a process that ends in Punch, Punch, Punch (punch ingot 3 times = 4 joined pieces)

This creates a metal item called “small joined ingots”

This item is immediately worked again with a process ending in Draw, Any Hit, Punch (pull out shape, flatten to broadhead, punch to separate 4 arrowheads)

Allow arrowheads to cool and craft as before mentioned to create arrows.

All metal arrows are retrievable when the animal they are shot in is killed.

Broadhead Arrows

-Effective against naked players, leather armored players and mobs (except skeletons)

Copper Broadhead

Lower dmg, 15% chance to break if arrow hits the ground

Bronze Broadhead

Medium dmg, 8% chance to break if arrow hits the ground, 10% chance to “bleed” an additional 50% dmg

Wrought Iron Broadhead

High dmg, 3% chance to break if arrow hits the ground, 20% chance to chance to “bleed” an additional 40% dmg

Steel Broadhead

Highest dmg, will not break if hits the ground, 25% chance to “bleed” an additional 35% dmg

Steel Bolt Shafts

Made by working “Small joined ingots” with a final process of Any, Draw, Punch (pull shape and punch to separate, no flattening needed)

Only effective against armored players/mobs. (Bolts don’t have the internal bleeding effect of broadheads and so are not used in hunting, they existed solely to punch through armor)

Crafting Bows

This is where I have to figure out how to explain the visual in my mind about the interface for working staves into bows. It would require multiple steps, drying in between, tillering, bending with hot oil and some other stuff in a unique GUI but at this point I feel I should slow down and ask what you guys think before writing an almanac on bow making.

Let me know if you're interested in my ideas for actually crafting the bows! And questions, criticisms and general feedback are welcome!

PS, If you made it this far I am truly flattered. Thanks!

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This should be in the combat overhaul post.But the length, thought and detail of this post is something Ive almost never seen. PROPS! :)

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my only qualm is the staves being a % drop. that could result in getting tons of wood while trying for a stave.

I'd rather that you get wood, then craft the wood into a stave, rather than hack at a log with a axe hoping for a fully formed stave to pop out

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Amazing topic, the first time I played TFC, I thought this mod had variety of bows and arrows. This is just one of the things that (if developers can) should be added to this fascinating mod ...

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I would like a system similar to that of Anvil Working.

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Alright, one by one.

 

Hello, Maga, nice thread you have here. Despite connection to other suggestions, it's quite original. I don't think you should worry much about how new of an user you are. I'd like to believe that at least most users here are mature enough to judge posts by their inherent intelligence and content, rather than by the post counter next to them.

 

I do really like the general idea - archery and bow-making are very primitive and crude in comparison with systems such as smithing, which is kind of the shame because there's plenty of potential and fun to be had. I like the fact that the thread offers several recipes and a bit more complex crafting, with different bows and arrows to both make bows in general more useful and to provide variety for different players (and even playstyles, to a degree!)

 

However, there's also a few issues I see with the suggestion, not letting myself get swayed by length of OP post otherwise offering quite a few, as mentioned, great ideas.

 

I understand that Maga is quite interested in the subject and so tries to make a suggestion that would do the craft justice but in a few elements, it's simply going too far. While bow-making simulator may appeal to some players, for some it will only enforce certain elements that will be redundant and simply not fun. For example, bows as they are in-game with regular use lose their durability relatively fast, fast enough to be useful but needing replacement with extended use. While this value can be adjusted, I very much dislike additional decay/brittleness for something that is meant to serve a long time. Those who employ bows regularly won't need additional time limit for the use of their bow, those who do not I doubt will find any challenge or entertainment rather than annoyance in equipment that progressively gets worse with time. It will be simply bad, very bad.

 

The other thing I dislike quite much and which is quite commonly considered simply a bad design decision is addition of items just for this particular crafting that would be otherwise useless. There are already complains and suggestions for using gems, showing up all the time - some of them good, some of the bad but all of them underlining how much of a waste it is to add particular type of items that have only a single use and how many people may be annoyed by ignored potential. Here, we have several news trees, ores, animal body parts, crafted items and so on. While trees aren't a problem as they may be used in currently-implemented ways, adding new ones for the sake of having additional bow material rubs me the wrong way. The same with having items which will be useless and bothersome if I won't want to make a bow. I like how crafting is made in a mod mentioned above, where number of new items is kept to minimum, depending more on using current content - and what new there is - is mostly for user's convenience. Some of it may seem simplistic (if not oversimplified and wrong) to someone actually dabbling IRL in bow-making, but it's practical and does it's job well.

 

So, with all respect for the effort made in the suggestion, I'd rather have crafting and necessary elements for the bow somewhat limited and streamlined, possibly with incorporation of new ones in time - only if range of other uses for them (that'd be an entertaining addition to the game) will be provided. Especially since adding it would be a lot of work yet a pain in the butt after making a few bows, at least for most casual players. The same as it could be with metallurgy - ore-processing and smithing is quite a complex activity requiring far more many 'steps' and tools but overt realism would only hurt what we have right now.

 

Different stats for the bows are nice. I like how you wouldn't use two different bows exactly the same way. But again, I am uncertain about a few things. Things like crossbows I already mentioned as per ores and other such elements (though, personally, I do find crossbows to be quite different from bows, at least in handling and later in the history - making, so I'd think twice between adding this tier of bow in general). Decay I also regarded. Accuracy, yes - I see some problem here.

 

Pardon me, maybe it's simply I (and everyone I saw playing Minecraft and not regularly using a bow without longer period of a break ever) but it already uses some skill to actually hit medium and long-distance targets and I had to have a few hours of gameplay behind my belt before I was relatively proficient (meaning being able to hit targets at varied distance and elevation without wasting several arrows needed to adjust the aim). Though that is not a problem. However, while I am sure there would possibly be some manic fans of archery who'd want to be rare elite for status and whatnot, making every other player to be forced to shoot stuff like short bow point-blank (and I assure you, if people have problems aiming with bows NOW, that's what we'd get) would be horrible and easy turn-off from this whole aspect of the gameplay, a feature less-able players would be nearly barred from.

 

I also voiced certain uncertainty (and now I'll voice my like for oxymorons) about making fighting-related activities into skills. Aside from encouraging whole 'kill kill kill' grinding attitude and creating bigger dissonance (and less fair fights) between different players, where player's skill gets lesser and lesser value while arbitrary in-game skill and chosen equipment becomes most important it also makes the activity lack fun in early moments of the game, where such weapons either would already have to start as powerful (which makes the progression and alternative designs/'models' of the item hardly matter) or bring lot of irritation to players who won't be able to shoot a tree few blocks in front of them. No, I really doubt fighting skills are a good idea.

 

Beside those, I see no real issues that couldn't be resolved and, again, I do think that aforementioned aspects aside, this is a good suggestion.

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Wow! What a detailed post!

 

In my opinion, the best parts of your post are:- Adding a better variety of bows and arrows

- Adding an archery skill

- Adding a more detailed crafting system (although you sadly did not elaborate). Gameplay is key, so I hope your ideas are focused less on multi-step tedium and more on skillful/engaging GUI usage, similar to the anvil.

 

Crosshair-sway and inaccuracy are not vanilla mechanics, and sadly I think the amount of work to implement these could be daunting. Draw speed, arrow velocity and velocity are still enough to differentiate bow types, though.

 

Complicated degredation is interesting but I'm not sure it adds much value given the amount of work it would take.

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Such feedback.

      Much compliment.

  Wow.

 

Thanks guys! It's great to see you take an interest in this :D

I don't think anyone posed a non-valid concern. I wrote this yesterday and the day before so after having time to look at it I think Visitor is absolutely right in saying I went overboard. Many mechanics are redundant, too code-heavy, annoying etc.

 

Reading it now I feel as though I was asking for "Bow Simulator 2014" ;[

 

I'll be heavily editing the suggestion shortly. I'm not much in the way of digital art so I really don't think I'll be trying to make any crafting diagrams or item textures.

 

Updates will include but may not be limited to:

-No cross-hair waiver or %accuracy variation (People have enough trouble as it is, good point)

-No overly-complex decay mechanic (Although I still think that there needs to be a way to make the best bows not over-powered)

-No new ores (especially since they would serve only one purpose, that was silly)

-Few as possible new items in crafting (same as above)

-Simpler effects for archery skill (Still think this should be a thing)

 

In regards to the comment regarding Terrabow. I checked it out and noticed a lot of similarities that I like. My main grievance is that crafting a composite bow should not be done in a matter of minutes while holding the items in your hands. This to me seems as outlandish as the vanilla mechanic for metal working... (smelting ores the same way you cook chicken...etc) Something as refined as crafting a quality bow surely deserves at least some level of complexity beyond that of placing a variety of items next to each other in a grid.

 

That being said... crafting bows was the one thing I didn't go into detail on so I better show up with something better or I'm a hypocrite.

 

Again, thank you for providing some common sense, I'll do my best to pay attention :)

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-No overly-complex decay mechanic (Although I still think that there needs to be a way to make the best bows not over-powered)

Well, things like a slow draw speed is a good way to 'cripple' op bows.

Since range, power, draw speed, durability and possibly arrow speed is really all we need in a bow, utilizing those and mix-and-matching them could do all the balance we need.

 

Say, a bow with far range and high power can be balanced with slow draw speed, making it good for sniping, but a horrible weapon close range.

On the same note, a bow with low range and power can be boosted with a fast draw speed, making it a good mid-to-close range weapon.

 

I don't really think decay or durability nerfs are needed to balance the bows.

And the problem with the decay mechanic is it works for all bows, not just the complex one, so it does little in the way of balancing.

 

That being said... crafting bows was the one thing I didn't go into detail on so I better show up with something better or I'm a hypocrite.

I really think that we should have a separate crafting thing for wood, cloth/leather, stone, etc, etc.

I mean, we have anvils for metal, we have firepits, forges, pitkilns, bloomeries, blast furnaces, and crucibles for smelting/cooking, we have a meal table for food, and barrels for um... barrel-y things, and knapping for stone tools.

So why not a carpenters bench for wood things? A stonemansions bench for stone things? A tailor bench for cloth/wool things?(that's a lot of benches, but you get the idea).

It'd be much better then the 'put item A with 3 item Bs in shape E to get item C and put item R with item X and item M in shape Q to get item D and put item D with item C to get whatever it is you wanted to get '

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As long as we gain the ability to shoot skeletons at some point I'm all for any changes to archery because when you're unable to shoot skeletons archery is basically pointless because all other mobs can be easily dealt with without ever getting hit using only melee weapons

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I really think that we should have a separate crafting thing for wood, cloth/leather, stone, etc, etc.

Couldn't agree more... Survival is much more about acquiring/managing/crafting resources in a way that keeps you alive than just fighting evil things all the time. I really hope they continue to buff other aspects of craftsmanship the way that metalworking is currently being done. Ie: glass blowing... multi-block kilns for advanced pottery... bowyer stations... coal refining... smoke houses... shipbuilding (for bigger boats with cargo holds) It would give SSP more longevity and add so much depth to SMP comunities, but I digress.

There's too many nice things I have read on the forums, but it's not like the dev team is lagging behind on content. It's still beta after all.  I am trying my best keep my focus on archery here.

 

 

As long as we gain the ability to shoot skeletons at some point I'm all for any changes to archery because when you're unable to shoot skeletons archery is basically pointless because all other mobs can be easily dealt with without ever getting hit using only melee weapons

Great suggestion. I could add blunt arrows. (Much less range, damage skeletons, stuns other mobs with slowness for a few seconds...etc)

For progression's sake they should probably be metal-age, but blunt stone arrows doesn't seem like a terrible idea either...feedback plz?

Thanks for the inspiration :D

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Fire arrows? that might work.

 

But another thing with crushing damage is that leather is the best armor against it, not the metal that most people lug around.

 

So a blunt arrow that does crushing damage could be a good anti-armor arrow

Ignore this,  I made  mistake on my part.

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Fire arrows? that might work.

Bones don't burn that great... doesn't really make sense imho. Every arrow mod under the sun adds 12 different fire and explosive arrows, next we'd end up with egg arrows and then jukebox arrows because why not. Everyone said to keep things simpler... A believable fire arrow would need a flint and steel on the bow and an oil (new liquid) soaked cloth tied to arrow with a string... Not saying it isn't doable but it's a dangerous first step into fancy arrows out the wazoo.

 

While I do like the idea... and oil should be something in the game anyway (olive press, anyone?)  The general consensus regarding my OP was to cut down on all the frivolous details so I'm loath to trust my own opinion on this one. I'd like to hear what other people think about more specialty arrows in general.

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But another thing with crushing damage is that leather is the best armor against it, not the metal that most people lug around.

 

Wrong, leather is simply the only armor that protects best against crushing damage in comparison to it's protection against the other damage types. Any other piece of armor except for Copper will give you more protection against crushing than leather will.

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darn... Finally though leather was useful.

Well, it is a bit misleading that wiki page:

The following armor is geared to protect best against crushing damage:

Armor Posted Image Leather¹

I didn't see the bit on the bottom that said that other armor will give better protection anyways.

So yea. Note to self: Read the small print. All the small print

 

Bones don't burn that great... doesn't really make sense imho. Every arrow mod under the sun adds 12 different fire and explosive arrows, next we'd end up with egg arrows and then jukebox arrows because why not. Everyone said to keep things simpler... A believable fire arrow would need a flint and steel on the bow and an oil (new liquid) soaked cloth tied to arrow with a string... Not saying it isn't doable but it's a dangerous first step into fancy arrows out the wazoo.

Well, flint and steel on a bow isn't a good idea, I don't think.

 

You'd just need a arrow with a oily rag tied on it, slightly longer so that the fire doesn't touch the bow(or your hand) at full draw, and slightly lighter to make up for the extra weight of the rag and longer length. Then just make a small fire/spark, light the arrow, the shoot it.

 

I say fire arrows are fine, because they are actual real-life arrows that where used to burn down enemy structures from a distance.

From the wiki: The simplest flaming arrows had oil- or resin-soaked tows tied just below the arrowhead and were effective against wooden structures.[13] Both the Assyrians and the Judeans used fire arrows at the siege of Lachish in 701 BC

 

Explosive arrows did exist, but there where never fired from bows, and where more of a early form of missile than arrows anyways, so they don't actually fit into the 'archery' group.

And things like egg arrows or whatever would never work, for multiple reasons.

 

So I think fire arrows would be fine, and it would give wool cloth more uses

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The charts on that page are intended to be used as "I want armor that has armor ratings so that it protects the best against X damage in comparison to its protection against Y and Z damage. I should choose a piece of armor from X's chart."

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Ah, I see.

Well, thanks for clearing that up

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Regarding crafting, I am not sure about making several different benches for different tasks. Aside from common sense factor, where one bench is as good for different types of production provided necessary tools are available (the whole point of a basic bench is a flat surface to drop and process resources on, at least when we talk about items at the level of complexity of TFC) I think it would be somewhat redundant and not fun to run between several different benches in order to make one item using different components.I'd rather 'put stuff in shape of X' as it uses one single UI, doesn't force me to run around or build a sizeable manufacture. Such elements don't help the survival aspect, they just bog the game down somewhat, I'll risk saying. There are people who already consider smithing a handful and while I support earlier statement that other types of crafting could use some additional developments, making all of them get just more complexity may not be good.I like the idea of blunt arrows, though. Not only for fighting skeletons - I wonder if they could be used to stun animals. Once wildlife is improved and so will be animal behavior including making them harder to hunt down, being able to stun running animal to leash or finishing it off would be quite nice, I'd say.Fire arrows, however, wouldn't work. At all. Realistically (yes, yes, it's about believability, stock answer - that believability depends on a degree of common sense and realism, just with concepts simplified for the sake of fun) flaming arrows didn't damage living targets more than regular ones and things don't catch fire with them easily either. They were mostly used for signalization and to set (usually thatch-roofed) structures on fire.As for exploding arrows, I am ambivalent. Yes, currently they'd be quite demanding on suspension of disbelief but hopefully one day we'll get semi-esoteric, semi-fantasy things like alchemy and I'd like to see small explosive arrow payloads - even if they'd be basically regular arrows with additional knockback and dealing decent damage against skeletons, having some chance at detonating creepers etc.In case of balancing, I didn't regard bow-draw speed and time you can hold it drawn before your arm gives up because I think they're at the very least ideas worth considering. If there's issues with balancing different types of bows, I think those two stats would help here considerably without making archery much harder for players in general.

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In my reply to Dano6655's suggestion of blunt arrows I mentioned I would like them to stun mobs, I've already re-written most everything and it's in the changes.

Another one of my edits was to remove all bow specs except draw speed, draw weight, durability and how long you can hold a full draw.

Looks like we're on the same page this time Visitor  ;)

 

 

Metal age bow crafting GUI diagrams and explanation will take me some more time but I'm almost ready to post updated archery mechanics as well as stone age bow crafting.

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ORIGINAL POST UPDATED! :D

 

Changelog: 

-stuff

-more stuff

...

-basically all the stuff

 

Thanks for all the feedback and positive comments on version 1

 

Special thanks goes to kaldskryke for highlighting the positives, Visitor for outlining the negatives, AllenWL for suggesting a better set of balancing mechanics and shoutout to Dano6655 for suggesting blunt arrows!

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I'm not keen on having varied draw speeds for bows, actually. It's a strength thing, you either can draw this bow or not, and if you can, you would want to do it equally quick for every bow type. Drawing process is often used for taking aim to avoid doing it while one's arms are strained very hard. Muscles tire quicker if they holding something compared to when they are moving something. So, basically, you generally aim it while drawing, quickly correct once you drawn and immediately shoot pretty much.

 

But different draw speed is a descent gameplay mechanic, I suppose.

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But different draw speed is a descent gameplay mechanic, I suppose.

I can draw a 20 pound bow faster than a 60 pound bow, granted the difference is minimal compared to the one am (and will be) suggesting.

I made a judgement call and decided it was appropriate to sacrifice ultra-realism for  believable progressive game-play.

 

If you could propose an alternative mechanic for keeping high power bows from becoming over-powered that is more true-to-life I would be happy to implement it.

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If you could propose an alternative mechanic for keeping high power bows from becoming over-powered that is more true-to-life I would be happy to implement it.

I mean, I could try, why not. Let's say that one's hands start to shake when he draws a bow, and the heavier bow it is, the quicker it starts and the more severe the effect, to the point when if he doesn't shoot it immediately after he has drawn it, he will most likely miss the shot just due to that. Maybe make it so the ideal time to shoot the heaviest of bows from this standpoint is when the bow has been charged to do about the same amount of damage as a fully charged medium bow, meaning everything after that you'd actually have a chance to miss.

Shaking itself is manifested through the camera movement, so player can actually correct the aim even when it is fluctuating.

 

Something like that.

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