Go to hell

[MDub 68]

Copper (Bsb), I am not a 'Kid'. I happen to be a 25 year old computer programmer with my bachelors degree in computer science, and four years professional experience, but you make an excellent point in your advice to Eternal. Perhaps if the world didnt revolve around his ideas, and he idk knew what tact was, we might not have found ourselves in this position. Maybe I reached the conclusion before him, but my point was that in no way is spending a large amount of time and effort building a mob trap, or complex redstone creation equivilent to sitting in a hole. The point of games is to reward people for effort. And incase it isnt clear, sitting in a hole = no effort, building a mob trap = effort. If its still not clear, google equivocation fallacy. Granted it is technically an exploit, they are by no means the same thing, or even comparable. Thats just a non sequitur, and a moments though by any reasonable person would make that clear. By comparing my idea to such a rediculous non sequitur over simplification of my idea, he implicitly belittled my opinion, for the SECOND time in less than two days. If you had read my post I though they could fall from the sky or something, which would make the concept of a mob trab considerably harder to implement, especially if said mobs did something like make a crater on impact. Any number of small tweaks to the idea coudl work around this potential exploit. As far as im concerned, if a player wants to think hard enough, is good enough, and survives long enough in the nether to build an effective mob trap, hes earned his drops.

And now im done

Edit - In retrospect, this came across a bit hostile toward you Bsb, and I apologize if you took any offence. I didnt meant to be hostile toward you, and said the above statement with no anger or animosity

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

-argue start snip-

-argue response snip-

So... you guys filled most of the forth page of this thread with this, as i can see... and mostly with this non-sense discussion. I'm not saying i am more mature that you two, as i'm only 16 years old, while you two are... not . However... that was pretty much pointless, and didn't helped very much to the thread...

It would be a good idea that, if you guys are disposed to, instead of writing all this you have to say in this non really related thread, go to the messenger of the forum -or any other private chat you can find-, orderly discuss it there, and try to find a solution that you're both comfortable with. By the way, i'd ask people with any issues between them to do the same thing. This is just to avoid discussions between members to flood up threads.

[Jed1314 420]

Hrm...I'm not a fan of totally spontaneous hell-rift events. Give them some kind of behaviour though and then they've got a pleasantly sticky cohesive feeling. Like making them appear for entire nights, but only on full moons or whatever. Just an example. Then again, I feel like that'll lead to people wanting some kind of kooky rituals to open them manually, which I really don't like. I firmly believe all things arcane should be inherently impossible for mere mortals to fully comprehend without their brain melting into a drippy slurry. (Which isn't to say I'm against enchantments, I just feel they should just be a cautious, experimental supernatural interaction kind of deal, not an "i'm a wizard, watch me make magics' kind of deal.)

I understand your hesitance, I like a degree of spontaneity, but maybe we could mix our ideas ? Perhaps every so often, there could be a red moon or something similar, indicating an impending portal opening. If they want a ritual they can get to f*ck, they're not turning my decent, secular minecraft into some kind of crazy quasi religious cult, not on my watch !

I like the idea of magic being incomprehensible to the average guy. Adds a degree of mystical wonder around the process of magic, as well as the joy (that I'm sure we all experienced as children) of messing around with something you don't fully understand

On the subject of portals and warp stones though, I actually came up with something while at the gym. (I think quickest at six miles an hour. :U)

By god do I know that feeling Albeit I don't run at the gym, but deadlifts are just as mentally stimulating

Also, the shower is the source of a great many ideas.

First of all, I don't think portals to hell would be very balanced as a game mechanic considering how we're building hell as a place that's very difficult to get to... As a matter of fact, what if overworld portal spots activated and deactivated on a timed basis. (Think days, or weeks..? Lunar cycles again?) In this particular case, I'd be alright with players being able to open their own. ...Portals or fast travel stones as a way back home from hell would be much easier to swallow though. Probably best if they just threw you somewhere on the surface of the overworld so you're not necessarily out of danger.

...What if there were incomplete portal structures in fortresses. Mining these broken portal blocks, dusting them off and filling in the cracks somehow would allow a player to assemble their own completed portals. Doing so would open temporary portal on the other side that little things could also jump through. Replacing the temporary hole with portal blocks could make it a permanent portal. Even then, the permanent portal could be made to open and close randomly, or based on lunar cycles or whatever. (Maybe lunar cycles for portal blocks, random for natural portals?) The reason it'd have to be in the same spot as the temporary one would be because how portals are linked based on coordinates. Just brain storming.

If nether portal zones underground were relatively recognizable (IE: Any 2x3x2 hollow pit surrounded by bedrock), and perhaps just a smidge more common, it could just be made so that they only rarely open. Once you've found one you'd only have to frequently check up on it.

For the record I've been imagining horizontal portals the whole time. I also think no man-made portals would be best.

I also prefer horizontal portals, and don't like manmade portals, I feel it trivialises the place you're going to, where you can just have one in your basement :S

I like the idea of incomplete portals in fortresses, maybe these could be a more sustainable way for the player to travel to the nether, along with the full/red/whatever moon portals

I feel like getting out should be *slightly* challenging, but not to the point where you are trapped in hell for all eternity :S

That sounds just .. hellish *Ba dum dum tis*

[bsb23 303]

Ya, go 16 year olds! I apologize Mdub i didn't realize you weren't a kid your whinning reminded me of my 8 year old brother when I try to help him with his homework. They just don't understand that your trying to helpful. Oddly enough that fits the situation rather perfectly. His world doesn't revolve around his ideas contrary to your belief and considering he hasn't really said any ideas but rather just sharpened others, I don't see where you got that idea from. As for the whole mob trap thing, stealing and crime takes work that doesn't mean its right, your cheating the game, the fact that you put in limited work and get an unlimited outcome is unbalanced. We need you to sharpen your ideas and you did a little, mobs falling out of the sky is a good start and if you would have said that after eternal first comment none of this crap would have happened. Once more, Eternal does this to everyone so don't feel to special he isn't picking on you. We need that sharpen ideas mentality in someone. Your still arguing so obviously you are still a little hostile.

I change my mind also they incomplete portals would be rather cool, what if you only had a limited amount of time in the nether?

[Jed1314 420]

Ya, go 16 year olds! I apologize Mdub i didn't realize you weren't a kid your whinning reminded me of my 8 year old brother when I try to help him with his homework. They just don't understand that your trying to helpful. Oddly enough that fits the situation rather perfectly. His world doesn't revolve around his ideas contrary to your belief and considering he hasn't really said any ideas but rather just sharpened others, I don't see where you got that idea from. As for the whole mob trap thing, stealing and crime takes work that doesn't mean its right, your cheating the game, the fact that you put in limited work and get an unlimited outcome is unbalanced. We need you to sharpen your ideas and you did a little, mobs falling out of the sky is a good start and if you would have said that after eternal first comment none of this crap would have happened. Once more, Eternal does this to everyone so don't feel to special he isn't picking on you. We need that sharpen ideas mentality in someone. Your still arguing so obviously you are still a little hostile.

I change my mind also they incomplete portals would be rather cool, what if you only had a limited amount of time in the nether?

I think we all need to drop it. This is between Eternal and MDub. If you have something to say to either of them, say it in private chat. That advice also applies to anyone considering replying to BsB's post re. the argument in this public thread as well.

Sorry if that seemed hostile to anyone, but I don't want this thread to erupt into another argument. Let's keep it on topic !

Now, following my own advice .....

In principle, I like the idea of limited time in the nether, but I get the feeling it would become a growing source of irritation for a lot of the community, so I'd be inclined to avoid setting a hard limit on how long you can be there :S

[fred da kiko 28]

I'd like to see the nether as a more dangerous place. As it stands, the nether is isn't more difficult than the overworld, it just has harsher penalties to death in regards to losing items. The most dangerous thing in the nether is other players doing stupid shit and lag.

[Jed1314 420]

I'd like to see the nether as a more dangerous place. As it stands, the nether is isn't more difficult than the overworld, it just has harsher penalties to death in regards to losing items. The most dangerous thing in the nether is other players doing stupid shit and lag.

I agree. I think the nether should be a dangerous place, even for the prepared player. A venture to the bowels of hell should not consist of a merry jaunt through a bland homogeneous red landscape, dodging the occasional lava flow and half-heartedly killing mobs with ease

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

In principle, I like the idea of limited time in the nether, but I get the feeling it would become a growing source of irritation for a lot of the community, so I'd be inclined to avoid setting a hard limit on how long you can be there :S

Someone has said the portal in the overworld would close either randomly or at fixed rates, depending if it's or not finished. So, wouldn't it mean it would close as well the way back to the overworld that portal created? I mean, the overworld and the nether are different realms, but they are closely related in space -Go to vanilla minecraft, create a portal, travel to nether, go away as much as you can from the portal, create another, go back to overworld- and time -You'll not only be far away from the first portal, also you would be on another time of the day-. Therefore, there is no reason for the portal in the nether to keep there while it's opposite in the overworld has already been closed.

I'm gonna post my idea as i think it:

-The first time you manage to activate a portal, it would be unstable, and you would have no way at all to stabilize it until you get some materials down there. However, parcially to add some coolness to it, if it is activated anywhere under a block, some lightings will fall and break anything which blocks it's view to the sky.

-This materials are fairly easy to find, but there's a problem: your portal leads you to a random section of the nether -either the low, the center or the high section-, while what you're looking for can only be found in the middle section -maybe something you can get from a nether mushrooms forest-

-The portal, on the nether, wouldn't be nothing but some kind of hole in the middle of the air; you have to get a nether portal frame around it in order to stabilize both portals, which can only be crafted with this materials, or rarely found in nether fortress.

-While unstable, the portal will open and close itself at a pseudo-random rate; while it's night time on the overworld, it is more likely to be open, while in day time it's more likely to be closed.

-While stable, the portal will remain open all during the night time, and closed all during the day time. However, lighting storms -yeah, i really like lighting storms- can confuse the overworld portal, making it close itself until the storm finishes.

+If the portal gets hit by a lighting, it will remain open during a complete day; however, due to extra usage, it will as well remain closed for another day. Then it will finally come back to it's normal rate.

-The portal NEEDS to have an unblocked view of the sky. If you enclose it, it will remain open for two days, but then it will sundenly explode due to the energy overload, with a massive force -reason enough to keep your goodies as far as possible from it!-. The same will happen if you are enough unlucky for TWO lightings to hit it during the same storm.

-Due to the fact that you could travel to the nether through an overcharged portal and not be able to go back before it explodes in the overworld...

+The nether would be survivable, even though it would be very hard in comparison with the overworld survival.

+Though difficult, you can re-activate the nether portal you came from in order to get back to the overworld. It wouldn't re-build the first portal in the overworld, as it no longer exists... you would be taken to another overworld portal, which could even be millions of blocks away from your home... or, if you're lucky, just behind your house.

+The overworld portals would only be found in the middle of mountains, at sea level. At the moment of activating, the mountain -due to one of the side effects of the activation of the portal- would become a dead volcano. The portal itself would, as well, open a bunch of galleries in the mountain, some of them going down in the earth, and some of them going up to the outside.

+Why that last for, you may ask? as you go back from the nether through a new portal, which wasn't activated, it will open the galleries and create the mountain as any other... however, it would automatically behave as if it was overcharged, and will in some moments explode. The galleries are there just for you for escaping the explosion, which could easily take out the mountain itself!

Wow... i writed a lot xDU but i'm out of ideas, and taking a look, i think i may have gone a little too much in the fantasy logic... Still, i like this :3

[bsb23 303]

Getting stuck in the Nether would suck, what would happen if you die (limbo?), but i suppose it would make it more exciting I'm not sure if you can make the portal update while your in another world if you could it might cause lag. Choose one lightning thing the world can't revolve around lightning =P. The whole mountain thing seems like a little much.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Yeah, i know... i was just brain-storming -pun intended- there, and the good ideas got mixed up with the bad ones...

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

and considering he hasn't really said any ideas but rather just sharpened others

Oy, I've had plenty of ideas around here :<

Not in response to our 'programmer', but hell I'm the OP of this thread. Where's the love, man?

*sadface*

I agree. I think the nether should be a dangerous place, even for the prepared player. A venture to the bowels of hell should not consist of a merry jaunt through a bland homogeneous red landscape, dodging the occasional lava flow and half-heartedly killing mobs with ease

...My first thought here is Death Mountain from Ocarina of Time. Remember before you got the goron tunic, you started taking damage the longer you were in there until you either died or time ran out and you also died?

Perhaps we could do the same thing for hell, sans the timer! You take a half heart of damage in the nether every x seconds, so if you stay too long you're dead meat. I'd make the damage rate just slightly faster than the regen rate from having a full hunger bar, just so that having an inventory full of food doesn't guarantee you hours of safe nether travel.

And perhaps a metal ore only found in hell can be smelted into armor that, while less effective than wrought iron, grants you immunity to nether damage as long as you have the full set?

Edit: OMG, I just saw my status! Congrats Teranz, your thread got incorporated into the forum!

[Azdoine 218]

My thought that first travel to the nether would be expensive as hell, (no pun intended) but the nether would also contain a common material that could be used to move to and from the nether easily.

In my mind, I had an image of a ring of 8 blocks of Hell-steel (Some sort of expensive metal requiring red/blue steel, and with gems hammered into the ingots). Throwing an Exquisite gem into the center would make a portal appear over the structure, and destroy the gem. In the nether, another portal back to the overworld would appear.

In the actual nether, ashes or soul-sand could be collected, formed into a 8-block ring, and then a glowstone block could be sacrificed to open another portal.

I don't like the helll-steel/gem idea all that much, but the basic concept, I do like

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

The goron tunic style solution sounds like a good one to me. It means that there's no hard and fast "timer" and it will definitely add a sense of purpose (and haste no doubt) to the first trip to the nether

Perhaps you could describe it as analogous to needing a hazmat suit in a radioactive environment.

Which makes me think that there is some kind of dangerous "energy" shooting about the nether. I may elaborate on that later when I decide if it can go anywhere that isn't stupid :L

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Which makes me think that there is some kind of dangerous "energy" shooting about the nether

Well yes, it's molecular kinetic energy

In layman's terms, 'heat'.

Things in hell burn, to my knowlege.

Or you could go the D&D route and go with the concept of negative energy - the polar opposite of the animating force of life (positive energy), which cancels and dispels positive energy, thereby weakening the life force of any living creatures. This is also the animating force of undead and necessarily gives them regen buffs... which come to think of it would make hell all the more challenging.

...I like this idea, actually. +1 for negative energy? Health defuffs for living and regen buffs for undead?

And then you could make the metal, like... 'Vitanium' or something. And soul sand could be the ore for it! Totally makes sense!!

[Jed1314 420]

Well yes, it's molecular kinetic energy

In layman's terms, 'heat'.

Things in hell burn, to my knowlege.

Or you could go the D&D route and go with the concept of negative energy - the polar opposite of the animating force of life (positive energy), which cancels and dispels positive energy, thereby weakening the life force of any living creatures. This is also the animating force of undead and necessarily gives them regen buffs... which come to think of it would make hell all the more challenging.

...I like this idea, actually. +1 for negative energy? Health defuffs for living and regen buffs for undead?

And then you could make the metal, like... 'Vitanium' or something. And soul sand could be the ore for it! Totally makes sense!!

You have my plus 1

I like this, it's adding challenge to the nether. I don't know if you saw my post about the nether but I proposed something *kind of* similar, albeit mine didn't have as good names as yours

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

You have my plus 1

I like this, it's adding challenge to the nether. I don't know if you saw my post about the nether but I proposed something *kind of* similar, albeit mine didn't have as good names as yours

Actually I did in fact see your post and added my rather verbose insights X3

[Jed1314 420]

Actually I did in fact see your post and added my rather verbose insights X3

I've taken them on board, is it possible to change the name of a thread ?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I've taken them on board, is it possible to change the name of a thread ?

I, uh...

...have no clue, actually o_0

[bsb23 303]

I apologize Eternal just trying to cool things off i was referring to ideas in this thread i guess i just skipped over it on accident.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I apologize Eternal just trying to cool things off i was referring to ideas in this thread i guess i just skipped over it on accident.

lol I'm just fucking with you dude, it's all good

[Sasqaucth 45]

Oh eternal you Troll.

[Sasqaucth 45]

Hmmmmm..... Well, this is minecraft, so maybe a whole Diablo town portal deal, that teleports you to the nearest overworld/underworld temple. Leaning more towards the ancient tartarus and hades side, but it's whatever. Next you'd have to have an expensive way to make these portals, so it stays balanced. Maybe you could find or make wax, and then you'd have to find seals inside abandoned temples? The wax would HAVE to be expensive, the seals would have to have maybe a two or three time use.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Hmmmmm..... Well, this is minecraft, so maybe a whole Diablo town portal deal, that teleports you to the nearest overworld/underworld temple. Leaning more towards the ancient tartarus and hades side, but it's whatever. Next you'd have to have an expensive way to make these portals, so it stays balanced. Maybe you could find or make wax, and then you'd have to find seals inside abandoned temples? The wax would HAVE to be expensive, the seals would have to have maybe a two or three time use.

Ergh...

...wracking my brain to see if I can make this into a good idea, and I just can't.

...well, not at 2:30 in the morning anyway.

there's 3 major problems I find with this:

1) This requires generated structures, which I think would kill the TFC feel a bit

2) Making portals isn't really something I feel should be encouraged for TFC - it gets the player a bit too involved in what (at least I personally feel) should be a fairly supernatural occurrence. TFC is survival as it should have been, and while that certainly does not exclude magic, I think that magic should be something that happens around you, that you gradually tame, just as you do with the vast wilderness. You shouldn't be able to get to the point where you've just acquired a few bits of obsidian and then decide 'welp, time to go to hell now!'.

3) Where the chuffing hell would we get wax? Because all I can think of are bees, and SirSengir might want to have a few words with Bioxx if apiaries start showing up in TFC

[Jed1314 420]

magic should be something that happens around you, that you gradually tame, just as you do with the vast wilderness.

This.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I have a job, thank you. I'm pretty certain most people on this forum do. I actually leave for work today 2.5 hrs after this message is posted.

And did I go out of line once? Yes. And I apologized (though not for insulting macs).

And I am not comparing building a mob spawner to digging a hole, what I am saying is that AFTER the one-time expenditure of effort required to make a mob spawner, the rest of your mob collection for the remainder of the game will consist of pretty much just waiting in a hole, same as the first method. The idea is to provide constant challenge rather than a one-time rush followed by permanent languor and sailing through what is ostensibly supposed to be hell on a golden jet powered by thoughts and operated with the Staples 'easy' button.

I wouldn't apoligize for insulting macs either, they deserve it. Useless shiny pieces of crap. You'd be much better off using a REAL Unix OS that comes bundled with a package manager and has associated repositiories. (as in Centos, scientific linux, ubuntu, and debian). Mac is built off a unix core and then piles shit on top and doesnt provide many of the most basic command line tools that SHOULD by rights be there.

We even have to go to Apple to get the compilers, instead of the open source developers, how lame is that shit?