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teiwaz

Wooden buckets and barrel liquids

42 posts in this topic

Currently, wooden buckets can hold fresh water, salt water, milk, and vinegar.  Is there any particular reason why wooden buckets cannot also be used to hold tannin, alcohol, brine, curdled milk and/or limewater?

 

I ask out of both curiosity and a need for believability and consistency.  All of these liquids can be put into wooden barrels, so why can only some of them be put in wooden buckets?

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Because there's no reason a player would ever need a bucket of any of those other liquids. If you want to transfer the liquid, the barrel works like a giant bucket when sealed and broken.

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Because there's no reason a player would ever need a bucket of any of those other liquids. If you want to transfer the liquid, the barrel works like a giant bucket when sealed and broken.

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

What if a player made one full barrel of tannin, but wanted to split the tannin across five barrels to process five pieces of hide simultaneously?  Or if I had one barrel of 2000 mB of limewater and one barrel of 10000 mB and wanted to split them into 6000 mB and 6000 mB?

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You can throw all five hides into the same barrel. Tannin is extremely cheap, if you want to process all three sizes of hides at the same time, then just make three barrels of it.

 

Why would you ever want to split the liquids? If you can come up with a reason other than something along the lines of OCD and wanting to use all the liquid each time, we'll consider adding the buckets.

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You can throw all five hides into the same barrel. Tannin is extremely cheap, if you want to process all three sizes of hides at the same time, then just make three barrels of it.

 

Why would you ever want to split the liquids? If you can come up with a reason other than something along the lines of OCD and wanting to use all the liquid each time, we'll consider adding the buckets.

 

I can come up with more reasons if you want, but my main question was "Why?" and based on your answers, I've inferred that bucket liquids are hard-coded and do not share common code like metals do with ingots and sheets, and that the ability of buckets to hold liquids was added specifically for those liquids that needed buckets and neither programmer bothered to add that functionality for the other liquids, i.e., it would take a lot of effort to add and isn't worth it.

 

Here's another reason I thought up just now: I only have one barrel of alcohol, and I want to make 6000 mB of vinegar.  I don't have access to glass bottles, or I can't be bothered to perform four times as many transferring actions than I would have needed to were I able to use buckets instead.

 

And another: I want to move large amounts of alcohol from one place to another, and I can't see why I shouldn't be able to use buckets to increase the amount of alcohol I can carry at one time (buckets in barrel, buckets in inventory, buckets on donkey).

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Why do you only want to make 6,000 mB of Vinegar? That still isn't an actual reason.

 

Yes buckets are hardcoded items, they are not like tanks where it's simply a matter of registering them as a container in the fluid registry.

 

If you want to transport more than an entire barrel worth of alcohol (which you can do on your back), then just use bottles. Sand is cheap, you can make glass in just a firepit. A full barrel is equal to 40 bottles, which can very quickly be filled by just holding them in your hand and holding down right click on the open barrel. They stack up to 64, so using bottles you'll be able to carry way more alcohol than just using buckets if they existed.

 

Or the even easier way is to actually plan ahead of time and simply transport the materials to make the liquid, and create it on-site instead of making it first and then trying to move it around.

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Thanks.  The only reason I have left is believability.  I'm not pushing for this feature to be added, I was just curious as to why this is the case, as TFC pays so much attention to details elsewhere that when I ran into this it stuck out for me.

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http://terrafirmacraft.com/index.html/_/articles/believable-r64

 

 

Everything in the universe is incredibly complex, no matter what the subject is, that you have to decide what to cut. 

 

However, there are times when believability and accuracy is sacrificed because we are dealing with a game and with players that will exploit anything if given the opportunity.

 

Have you ever taken a look at just how many items and blocks there are in TFC? There are over 2,000 textures alone. When it comes to game design, cutting out anything unnecessary to keep things a bit more simplistic is generally good practice, especially when you can't really come up with a valid reason why a player would actually need to use the thing you aren't implementing.

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I'm with Kitty on this one...

 

No reasonable reason why and it's not easty to add it.I'm sure if it were as simple as, say, setting a flag in the object then it would have been done a long long time ago.

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The only reasons I can think of as to why somebody would need to seperate barrels are limited supply and trading. It is possible, I suppose, for somebody to have so little vinegar or limewater that they would like to spread their limited supply between two points, say a farm and a food larder, or the home and a construction site. But really, if you have so little of those liquids, then you wouldn't be using a lot of it anyway, and so would save little time by spreading it out. The better reason I can think of is multiplayer. Given how precious olive oil is, I could see people only wanting to sell it in lots of a fraction of a barrel at a time. The buyer might need need a full barrel and be unwilling to pay for the lot, or your supply might be so low that you only want to sell part of your supply and keep the rest for yourself.

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Given how precious olive oil is, I could see people only wanting to sell it in lots of a fraction of a barrel at a time.

 

For this case, it would probably be smarter for us to add olive oil bottles, not buckets.

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For this case, it would probably be smarter for us to add olive oil bottles, not buckets.

Quite agree with you there.

 

*EDIT* How expensive is olive oil to produce, anyway? I've only ever seen Pak do it, and I never saw how much that produced.

Edited by Hubertus
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One thing to take into consideration though, a bottle holds 250mB of alcohol. A lamp holds at maximum 250mB of olive oil. While the stacking feature of bottles is nice, you still wouldn't be able to break the barrel down into small enough amounts to split the oil between multiple partially-filled lamps. You also would not be able to use a bottle to refill a lamp unless the lamp is already completely empty, because bottles cannot hold partial amounts of liquid, and I know you wouldn't want the extra oil in the bottle to be destroyed.

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Can partially filled lamps be filled by placing them in an olive oil barrel? And if so, could bottles of oil be used to fill a barrel, thereby letting you refill the partially full lamps that way?

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Yes, but then you're stuck with a barrel that has so little olive oil in it that you can't put it back in a bottle.

 

A single 160 oz olive with no decay at the start of squeezing will produce 250 mB of olive oil. Keep in mind that just 250 mB is enough for a lamp to burn for almost an in-game year by default.

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You can use lamps to move oil in 250mB "shots" from barrel to barrel - just right-click a lamp on a full barrel then right-click it again on an empty barrel (like a bucket)Does the lamp metal make any difference to how long it burns?  My gold lamp doesn't seem to burn for anything like that long...  (I could be wrong, mind.)

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The only metal that matters is blue steel, which when filled with lava instead of olive oil will burn indefinitely. When you fill your lamp completely, the tooltip will show how many in-game hours it will burn for. There is a bug in the current version that lamps that have been turned off can still occasionally burn fuel when they shouldn't be, but other than that they should all be burning equally.

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perhaps my lamp is "occasionally" burning fuel then.

Thanks for the clarification - I thought that was true.

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I was also annoyed with the inability to move small amounts of liquids without moving the whole barrel. And the number of times I picked up a barrel without sealing it first and losing the contents :(.

 
 

 

Yes buckets are hardcoded items, they are not like tanks where it's simply a matter of registering them as a container in the fluid registry.

 

They do not have to be hard coded with their own separate textures. If they used the glass bottle example with an overlay, only two textures would be needed for all of them. And yes, it is as easy as registering them as a fluid container.

 

 

I'm with Kitty on this one...

 

No reasonable reason why and it's not easty to add it.I'm sure if it were as simple as, say, setting a flag in the object then it would have been done a long long time ago.

 

It is easy to add, and the reason I know it is, is because I have added them to my mod. I added the ability to move most of the fluids with bottles and buckets. If the buckets used an overlay texture like the glass bottles do, then this would not be a problem.

 

 

Something else that I found weird, you can move a bucket of water 1000mB without any problem, but moving a barrel of water 1000mB requires you to put it on your back. You can carry heaps of buckets of water without a problem.

Edited by Bletch
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This is a known "exploit", but minor enough to not worry about it. In fact if you use a barrel as item storage you can store a larger volume in buckets than the barrel can hold as fluid.

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They do not have to be hard coded with their own separate textures. If they used the glass bottle example with an overlay, only two textures would be needed for all of them. And yes, it is as easy as registering them as a fluid container.

 

I sort of agree with Bletch.  I have no experience working on Minecraft mods, but I am a programmer, and my natural instinct tells me that buckets can be implemented as generic liquid containers.  This would also make it easier on the devs in the long run if more liquids are added in the future, they won't have to build more and more hard-coded case-by-case code.

 

Still, I have no complaints if the devs spend their time working on bigger and better features than this.

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Hmmm... I was just noticing the "exploit" aspect last night.  I've just started a new world and I made a large pot to use as a backpack.  Without thinking about the fact that large pots can hold water I filled a bunch of jugs and put them in the pot.  However, I discovered that if you put a full jug in the top left slot it will empty into the large pot.  Seeing my large pot filling with water I decided that it might be better to simply use it to carry water.  Nope.  A large pot with eight full jugs and one small pot as a place-holder carries three more jugs worth of water than if you simply filled the large pot with water.

 

I would like to make it known that I'm not complaining, just confirming the "exploit."

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Why would you ever want to split the liquids? If you can come up with a reason other than something along the lines of OCD and wanting to use all the liquid each time, we'll consider adding the buckets.

 

I once played on a server where food, for some reason, was scarce, plus I had the dubious luck of always connecting either in Autumn/Late Autumn or in Winter.

 

I had some potatoes, some other vegetables and I lucked out - I found an orange tree. I had a bit more than 100 oz of oranges (the tree was next to a stone wall, so one side of it had no space to grow, hence the smaller than usual amount of fruit from a tree). I knew that the vegetables would probably last through the winter no problem, but the fruits decay faster. I had a brilliant thought - I'll use half of the oranges to make vinegar and preserve the other half. But, unfortunately, I used my potatoes to make a full barrel of vodka before I found the oranges.

 

OK, no problem, I can use the bucket to divide 10000 mB of Vodka ... ooops, I can't...

 

After that, I knew and I planned ahead, but it WAS frustrating and I saw absolutely no reason why alcohol cannot be transfered in a bucket except to make a player's life harder in a non-fun way. Now, when you say that wooden buckets are hardcoded I can see that you did not go out of your way to do that ;) but still, I agree that all barrel liquids should be transferable in buckets whenever possible. It's ... logical. And TFC is otherwise a very logical mod, as much as a computer game can be.

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OK, no problem, I can use the bucket to divide 10000 mB of Vodka ... ooops, I can't...

 

But you could just use bottles of vodka.

 

Edit: Also, if you wanted to split it exactly in half, you could right-click on the barrel with a large vessel, which will then fill the large vessel which only has half the capacity of barrels.

Edited by Kittychanley
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But you could just use bottles of vodka.

 

I couldn't at that point in that particular game (not to mention I didn't know it yet, I learned that MUCH later), but in general, you are right. It's something else. When I started to play TFC the first time, I had my nose in the wiki all the time. But after I learned the knapping patterns for basic tools by heart, I only glimpsed into the pottery patterns once, I saw that a pottery axe mold is a mirror image of knapped axe and I made a pottery knife mod without looking in the wiki at all. Logical.

 

When I read about how to make brine and learned to use bucket, I was sure that I can transfer all barrel liquids by bucket. I did not check that I can't, because it also seemed logical.

 

Now imagine a frustrated player, that has half hour of play left (because real life has demands, unfortunately) and that suddenly realises that they need to go find sand, make glass, make bottles. Yes, I agree, it can be done. There is a way in the game to do everything you want with that barrel of vodka. But the need to divide is real, not OCD and the logical way to do it would be like with any other liquid that can be transferred with a bucket. I can bet you a cute kitten picture ;) that if you asked most TFC beginners, that just used their bucket for the first time to transfer vinegar in it, "are you able to do that with alcohol too?", they would say yes...

 

You do as you want, I'm only trying to point out it's not only (not even mainly) players' OCD when they want to transfer liquids in buckets :)

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