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TaeoG

Taeo's WIP addons - TerraThaumcraft, TTFCAPI, TTFCMat

722 posts in this topic

What about something like 1-15 yields one metallum, 16-30 = 2 metallum etc?

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the trick is finding a good ratio that's CLOSE to 9:100 that divides nicely, and also will allow the default values of 15-25-35 to yield 1-2-3 metallum. Right now I'm looking into whether its possible to set an NBT tag on an item that comes out of a cauldron recipe. If so that will make things easier, as I then I can use a conversion ratio that isn't whole numbers.

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Is there a reason that 11 units = 1 metallum wouldn't work? That's pretty damn close to 9:100 at 9:99, and would put the three standard values at 1, 2 and 3 metallum each provided it just floors the values and doesn't try to give partial metallum (if that's even a thing that exists).

 

It should scale pretty well with custom values as well! The only issue would be with ore amounts under 11, but honestly anybody who puts rich ore at 10 or less is enough of a glutton for punishment that they probably wouldn't mind having to get their metallum from ingots.

 

Edit: Another note, in terms of finding a number of units of ore to equal 1 metallum exactly, 11 is the only value that does not immediately cause problems. 10 units = 1 metallum would cause ingots to contain 10 metallum's worth of ore for custom amounts (and technically give small ores 1 metallum), while 12 units would cause the default rich ore to have only 2 metallum, as 35 would just miss the cutoff at 36.

 

Edit 2: Unrelated, I agree about giving Kimberlite greed at least. As a potential indicator of diamonds, it absolutely is associated with greed in humans (and if diamonds get greed, then obviously we're going by a human metric to determine what should have that aspect). Fire also makes sense, but only as much as it would for any igneous rock - I might suggest motion instead, as it actually carries diamonds up to the surface, or void to represent to the fact that it carries gems (most containers have void if I recall) Honestly I'd probably just have it as a weak source of greed and leave it at that.

Edited by KnaveErrant
Kimberlite
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I've come up with a plan, haven't tried it yet as I've taken a short hiatus to deal with developing cubital tunnel syndrome (don't use the IKEA  "Lack" sidetable as a computer desk folks)

The way thaumcraft handles metal conversion is converting nuggets into other nuggets. The idea in TFC is to handle metal conversion using the ores, for a few reasons, one of them being to avoid people using my addon to completely avoid the TFC mechanics of ore processing. BUT, because ores come in all kinds of variant quality, allowing someone to make any of the ore qualities leads to all kinds of issues, as already discussed. Instead, I will be adding a "transmuted ore" item, that will be the result of any of the transmutation recipes. The metallum worth of the various ores WILL be calculated at 1:11, however the transmuted ore that is worth 3 Metallum will be exactly 100 units of metal instead of 99. The reason for this is to avoid the situation where players would always be 1 unit of metal short of a full bar. Server owners would do well to set their ore qualities to multiples of 11 to avoid wasting any ore in the conversion. For example, under default settings, 3 rich ore would produce one Transmuted ore, which would result in a loss of 5 units of metal.

In terms of potential abuse, players could get 1 free bar worth of ore for every 99 bars they produce. I think that's acceptable.

Edited by TaeoG
getting "unit of Metal" and "metallum" mixed up is easy
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Also, Thaumcraft by default has Lead bars being part metallum, part ordo, while my intention was to make it metallum and poison. Thoughts?

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41 minutes ago, TaeoG said:

Also, Thaumcraft by default has Lead bars being part metallum, part ordo, while my intention was to make it metallum and poison. Thoughts?

I like the venenum better, personally, as it makes more sense than ordo. But, if you don't have many other sources of ordo, then it could be really useful to have it give ordo, and the same could be said of venenum if you don't have many sources of that. But if you already have pretty good sources for those, then I would say it comes down to personal preference. I kind of like Venenum better, but there is definitely value to be had in keeping it true to TC4. Also, it would be easier to transmute stuff into lead using ordo, assuming ordo is available from the chiseled stone in TFC like it is in vanilla with stone and the sandstone tiles. Lead is pretty much useless in TC4 and TFC both, but it would play better with other mods if you use the easier aspect to obtain.

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Spider eyes are a good source of venenum, and I will be adding ordo to the bricks, so either should work.

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In regarding the wasting ore from not using multiples of 11, i see that as more of a feature than a result since it could be seen that some material is consumed to fuel the conversion. Thats how i see it anyways.

 

(Note: i set my ores to nuggets still being 10 each and the rest maxed out to where rich = 350)

Edited by Mathias Ademar
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hmmm, ore purification is a problem. It will conflict pretty directly with using ore in the metal transmutation recipes. Maybe I will have to implement nuggets after all, and just make transmutation only possible within the tiers, ie gold can be turned to copper, but not iron or colored steel. That saves me from all these little bits of ore appearing and disappearing in the transmutation process, too.

Now should I make nuggets a mold or an anvil recipe...

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For nuggets, I'd say mold definitely, with a possible anvil recipe for splitting an ingot into multiple nuggets more quickly with less inventory waste.

 

Edit: Side note, I noticed the OP cites wood (including lumber) as being 100% done, but in the alpha I noticed that there was no way to obtain greatwood planks and (as far as I could see) no greatwood lumber coded in at all. I did not check silverwood, though I suspect it is the same. Just wanted to make sure you were aware.

Edited by KnaveErrant
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2 minutes ago, KnaveErrant said:

For nuggets, I'd say mold definitely, with a possible anvil recipe for splitting an ingot into multiple nuggets more quickly with less inventory waste.

I'm working on it as we speak. I'll go with tradition and have a mold for metals with lower melting points, and anvil recipe will be required for the higher ones. I'll be going with 10 nuggets per ingot, because dividing by 11 just doesn't work out nicely.

Still scratching my head as to how to keep this mechanic from allowing players to completely avoid iron/steel generation. Likely I'll make the result require working. IE you can transmute iron, but it still has to go to the blast furnace before its usable.

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14 minutes ago, KnaveErrant said:

Side note, I noticed the OP cites wood (including lumber) as being 100% done, but in the alpha I noticed that there was no way to obtain greatwood planks and (as far as I could see) no greatwood lumber coded in at all. I did not check silverwood, though I suspect it is the same. Just wanted to make sure you were aware.

You're right, I've neglected to add a greatwood planks recipe, but what do you mean by no greatwood lumber coded? Not only are there greatwood logs, but also different blocks for natural greatwood and player-placed greatwood.

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In the case of iron transmutation, just make it give iron ore - I'm still not sure how nuggets solve the ore purification problem, but anything forcing you back to the blast furnace step might as well just be ore.

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Strange. There is a High Carbon Steel ingot and unshaped ingot in the game, but no High Carbon Steel Metal in the code... 

as for how nuggets solve the purification problem, it doesn't. Not exactly. Its just another approach that I think will lead to less issues. I may find in the process of testing and implementing it that I had the right idea in the first place. We will see.

 

EDIT: Yep, trying to pour molten HC Steel into a crucible causes a NPE crash. This is definitely a bug. I can fix it on my end, but should probably mention it to KittyChanley. Not sure if she'd be willing to fix it or not since TFC1 is dead, but maybe.

EDIT2: Nah, I'll just fix it on my end. Its definitely an edge case since there is no way to melt HC steel anyway under normal means. Not worth a new version of TFC unless addons start trying to use HC Steel for stuff. 

Edited by TaeoG
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tried to make it so gold, tin and other non-tool metals could be made into nuggets with a mold. I think it may not work well, however, because filling a mold from a ceramic vessel works completely differently than from a ceramic mold, and relies on there only being 4 types of metal. Annoying design flaw, but it means that only copper and the various bronzes will work properly in a mold. Otherwise a smart player could potentially convert metals without magic at all.

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well, I've found a sort of hacky way to get the non tool metals to pour into the nugget molds without any bugs or exploits. However only copper and bronzes can be done with the small ceramic vessel.

Do you guys know of any addon that deals heavily with small Ceramic vessels or adds a bunch of molds? I'm strongly considering re-implementing them entirely, but I don't want to do so if it will make my addon incompatible with another.

Its getting to the point that I'm likely going to split this addon in two. One part concerned specifically with Thaumcraft, and the other with patching problems with TFC and adding api features for future/third party addons.

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If you are doing a "fixer" addon we should chat. I have my WIP addon I've had on hold while moving. I really want to provide a good framework for pack makers/addon devs to work with for basics. 

Right now it is just worldgen of TFCesque ores and alloys. I've added in the ingots sheets etc. I've also added metal blocks, nuggets, dusts and will add gears and rods. Nuggets I have as 10 units and they are crafted with chisel. 

I'm planning on adding a machine which players add in raw ores and outputs a 100 unit ore pile, which substitutes for standard ores ie oreIron, oreGold etc. 

The TFC mold stuff is limited in how it works/volumes you can use. I'd love to make either an addon to crucible or a new crucible that allows you to pour out into molds, maybe a bit like TiC.

 

 

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We can definitely talk, although I get the feeling we have different goals in mind. I don't intend on adding anything like gears, just simply re-implementing some of the hackier code that got in there to fill an immediate need. The ceramic vessel and molds are a perfect example. Also fixing some bugs that have persisted. Typically stuff that would have been a pull request if TFC1 was still in development.

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I've got the nuggets implemented, one for every type of metal, including intermediaries like weak steel or high carbon black steel or whatever, just for consistency. All the non-tool metals can be easily transmuted, like brass and gold and such, , as well as copper and the 3 bronzes. I've made it so wrought iron nuggets + metallum can be transmuted into small amounts of raw Bloom. This way players can transmute iron, but not completely sidestep the entire process of obtaining it. One of my goals with this is to avoid supplanting entire TFC gameplay elements entirely.

For this reason and others, iron will be the highest transmutable tier.

Edited by TaeoG
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if the TFC tech addon uses the forge ore dictionary, yes. Otherwise probably not

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On 7/24/2016 at 11:12 AM, TaeoG said:

You're right, I've neglected to add a greatwood planks recipe, but what do you mean by no greatwood lumber coded? Not only are there greatwood logs, but also different blocks for natural greatwood and player-placed greatwood.

Pretty sure they mean lumber as in the item you get when you combine a log with a saw. http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Lumber

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5 hours ago, TaeoG said:

Ah yes, I always mix those up.

Yes, that was what I meant, sorry I didn't respond sooner. I had NEI installed and I couldn't find the Lumber item (the single plank) for greatwood, or any recipe to process greatwood logs (the item) into greatwood plank blocks.

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