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Who do you support?    33 members have voted

  1. 1. Which party would you identify with, or none at all?

    • Republican
      10
    • Democrat
      9
    • Neutral, whoever I think best stands for America, regardless of party.
      14
  2. 2. Which democrat candidate would you support?

    • Hillary Clinton
      2
    • Martin O'Malley
      0
    • Bernie Sanders
      14
    • None, I'm republican or I'm party neutral and don't like these candidates.
      17
  3. 3. Which republican candidate would you support?

    • Ben Carson
      2
    • Jeb Bush
      0
    • Chris Christie
      0
    • Ted Cruz
      2
    • Carly Fiorina
      2
    • Mike Huckabee
      0
    • John Kasich
      0
    • Rand Paul
      6
    • Marco Rubio
      0
    • Rick Santorum
      0
    • The Donald
      3
    • None, I'm democrat or I'm party-neutral and I don't like these candidates.
      18

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84 posts in this topic

But cakes and photographs are NOT constitutional guarantees.

 

I guess you are right, I do advocate the right of private entities to censor content (websites banning hatefull users and such), so I should also accept the right of private entities to refuse service to anyone at will. Though I still think all criteria should be treated equally. 

 

As for homeschooling, it can be a mixed bags, and it's very much up to states to enforce standards and that's how it SHOULD be.

 

Agreed. And we do have the option to homeschool, its just so strict hardly anyone uses it. Its mostly used by diplomats who don't want to send there kids to a school where they'd have to be thought in Dutch and/or French, so they hire a certified professional.

So, yes, it needs to be an option.

Also, I was unaware of standards set by states, all I read about mentioned the federal gov.

 

Do you really think the government should be teaching sex Ed? Do you really think it is a that important?

 

Yes, it is that important. It is possibly the most important single bit of education a child/teenager can get.

 

All I will say is that there's scarcely a shred of evidence that would ever convince to believe in evolution.

 

Then I'm afraid I can only disregard your thoughts on anything with basis in more then just subjective opinion.

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Yes, it is that important. It is possibly the most important single bit of education a child/teenager can get.

Wow. I thought the days where I was baffled by what liberals said were long gone, but I was obviously wrong. I guess liberalism really is a never ending well, or black whole should I say, of utter lunacy.

"Sex is the most important thing anyone can ever learn."

-Wow. Just... Wow.

 

Then I'm afraid I can only disregard your thoughts on anything with basis in more then just subjective opinion.

Like I said, this thread is not about whether or not the universe created itself out of nothing, so I will not derail it. Basically, I'm not gonna believe in a logical fallacy.

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As off-topic as this has become, I'm letting this thread remain open because of the continued interest in the discussion. However I'd like to remind everyone to remain civil and not let your thoughts or emotions that are brought out here, spill over into the rest of the forums.

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The biggest problem with homeschooling is not the fact that the parents are inefficient teachers or that the kids are socially deprived, although that does happen in a few cases, the biggest problem is the knowledge of the parents who are teaching them.

 

Lets face it, who remembers everything they learned in school? Virtually no-one. Many/most adults would fail the tests their kids take and pass, because, much of the information they learned is not overly relevant at their current jobs. Yes, they can teach well everything relating to the field in which they are employed, but other fields, and a general education? Even professional schoolteachers cannot teach everything a student learns, especially as they get older and branch off into many more areas and subjects, like science, history, language, math, arts, and more. What is worse can be then that the student is not exposed to some subject that they might otherwise go into.

 

As to sex ed, it is highly important, because at that age, trying to totally repress such activities is futile, without virtual imprisonment. As such, they need to be informed on the issue, and know the consequences and risks, as well as how to do it safely.

 

As to the conservatives wanting to return America to how it was when it was "Great", well, that is absurdly subjective. Conservatives used to argue for segregation, before that, slavery, also there have been things such as polygamy, burning witches at the stake (this is similar to the creationism v evolution issue, people not looking at the evidence and thus killing innocents), and more, all of which they are against now. In a 100 years or so, these social issues which we argue about now will be accepted as totally acceptable, and obvious, by both sides. The only question is how long it will take, and what new issues will come up for them to argue about then. As to the "where you could determine your own path in life and do what ever you wanted with your life without anyone holding you down or taking from you.", for the vast majority of the history of the nation that was not true. A massive amount of what people could do was highly dependent on their circumstances. For much of our history, being born female condemned you to a life of being a mother and wife. Only a lucky few could actually do what they wanted. Socially mobility is as high or higher now as it has ever been.

 

To the examples of leftist extremism; I will not deny that such opinions exist. They do exist, but in small numbers, and much of that is just ignorance or over-reaction, problems which plague both sides of the spectrum. Don't judge all of one side by the few hyper extremest. Such still exist on the right as well, 3 months ago pamphlets from the KKK were distributed on cars 10 miles from where I live. That doesn't mean everyone who is a conservative agrees with their views.

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The biggest problem with homeschooling is not the fact that the parents are inefficient teachers or that the kids are socially deprived, although that does happen in a few cases, the biggest problem is the knowledge of the parents who are teaching them.

Let's equally face it that everything kids are learning up to probably age 14 is dead simple.  How many people forget multiplication?  Grammar is probably the most complex, but I honestly couldn't tell you what my language classes were like then, so I'm not sure.   I would say that everything up through about 8th grade (US) is so simple the parents do not NEED to have their own innate knowledge.  That's what textbooks are for - I don't think anybody homeschools from pure memory.    Even beyond that into high school, a lot of things are very simple, very textbook teachable.  I'd honestly say that grammar probably requires as much innate teacher knowledge as anything.  

 

There's nothing that says that if one begins homeschooling, one must do it through the child's 18th year.  A great many homeschoolers around here only homeschool through the lower grades, and then send their kids to public schools for high school, if not earlier.   This allows them to influence the most early and highly impressionable years, where kids are extremely easily brainwashed by liberal education.   Additionally, it allows the parent to teach things which liberals have managed to remove from public education, such as the constitution, a positive view of US history (and present), and civics in general.   By the time they're teenagers they're probably as prone to disregard their teachers as they are their parents on social issues. 

 

 

As to sex ed, it is highly important, because at that age, trying to totally repress such activities is futile, without virtual imprisonment. As such, they need to be informed on the issue, and know the consequences and risks, as well as how to do it safely.

The problem a great many parents have is, there there can be a line between 'sex' ed and 'perversion' ed, and moreover how early sex ed is tought.  I would definitely want my kids to know some basic stuff.  They don't need to be instructed on acts.  And they don't need to be taught these things when they're 8.   I will return again, to local control.  These things should be under the control of the local schools, not the federal government.  Respect the local culture.  Funny how for liberals, everyone from anywhere outside the country, you have to respect the hell out of their culture.  But if you're an American, and especially white?  Oh, you don't have culture.

 

Look, you can't just argue that anything in history that was bad was done by "convervatives".  At the risk of getting into an argument over labels, I would say the worst attrocities in history have all been done by 'liberals' (I'm mainly going off body count here, rather than details of particular cruelty - i.e. Inquisition).  If we're taking 'liberals' in this context to mean people who don't like the current social milieu, then the communists and their ilk who performed the various attrocities in Russia and Asia in the early 20th century are far and away the worst.  And far from isolated examples.  They are perfect examples of the result of rampant federal power vs a disarmed populace in most cases, and the inherent danger therein.

 

I can't speak for other 'conservatives' (and many conservatives would not call me that) but the main thing I want to return America to is a point where everyone took responsiblity for their own well lives, rather than relying on the government for handouts.  That's the worst thing going on in this country right now.  Return of local control to states would be great too.   I want people to actually be free.  Not have their lives dictated by the feds.

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As to sex ed, it is highly important, because at that age, trying to totally repress such activities is futile, without virtual imprisonment. As such, they need to be informed on the issue, and know the consequences and risks, as well as how to do it safely.

It is important, but is certainly not the most important thing anyone will ever learn. And it should not be taught by the government, but privately by parents and/or other private entities, and it should not be taught to young kids. Maybe start at 15 or 16 at the earliest. I will say no more, as this is pretty off topic.

 

As to the conservatives wanting to return America to how it was when it was "Great", well, that is absurdly subjective. Conservatives used to argue for segregation, before that, slavery, also there have been things such as polygamy, burning witches at the stake (this is similar to the creationism v evolution issue, people not looking at the evidence and thus killing innocents), and more, all of which they are against now. In a 100 years or so, these social issues which we argue about now will be accepted as totally acceptable, and obvious, by both sides. The only question is how long it will take, and what new issues will come up for them to argue about then. As to the "where you could determine your own path in life and do what ever you wanted with your life without anyone holding you down or taking from you.", for the vast majority of the history of the nation that was not true. A massive amount of what people could do was highly dependent on their circumstances. For much of our history, being born female condemned you to a life of being a mother and wife. Only a lucky few could actually do what they wanted. Socially mobility is as high or higher now as it has ever been.

Let's not forget that it was always the democrats advocating for segregation. Many liberal extremists such as Margaret Sanger even advocated for the eradication of all "inferior" races. There were conservative racists, but the liberal racism always outweighed the conservative racism.

Slavery was more financial, the rich & elitites in both the north and south supported slavery because it was imperative to their financial well-being. Most poorer people either couldn't care less or did not want slavery. It was never oriented based on conservative vs liberal, those political divides were not really well-defined yet.

-So creationists are murderers because they have different beliefs than you do, is that what you're saying? Isn't unfair to judge so many people for based on some weird cult stuff that a handful of crazies in a little town in Massachusetts did 400 years ago?

 

To the examples of leftist extremism; I will not deny that such opinions exist. They do exist, but in small numbers, and much of that is just ignorance or over-reaction, problems which plague both sides of the spectrum. Don't judge all of one side by the few hyper extremest. Such still exist on the right as well, 3 months ago pamphlets from the KKK were distributed on cars 10 miles from where I live. That doesn't mean everyone who is a conservative agrees with their views.

But most commonplace leftists views are extreme. If ripping apart children, taking peoples' property, affirmative action aka racism, suspension of constitutional rights, etc. are not extreme, then pretty much nothing is.
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It is important, but is certainly not the most important thing anyone will ever learn. And it should not be taught by the government, but privately by parents and/or other private entities, and it should not be taught to young kids. Maybe start at 15 or 16 at the earliest. I will say no more, as this is pretty off topic.

 

I can't think of very many things that can ruin you life earlier then having to care for a child you didn't want / are not ready for.

(That you can blame on on proper education.)

 

We got the very basics at 12. Which is good, because its right around the average age of first menstruation.

The more detailed stuff came at 14 to 16, depending on what you did when in school.

But that can be too late (girl in my class had her first serious boyfriend when she was 14, and she is still with him now 5 years later).

Another major issue is the internet, you don't want young kids to get google'ing.

 

I guess I can agree with what Darmo said, it depends on local culture. But better be safe then sorry.

 

As off-topic as this has become, I'm letting this thread remain open because of the continued interest in the discussion. However I'd like to remind everyone to remain civil and not let your thoughts or emotions that are brought out here, spill over into the rest of the forums.

 

It is the Off-Topic section after all  ;). I decided against creating an anonymous account, because I hoped it would help avoid this discussion turning into a extremist shit-show. (You decide if it worked  :D)

 

This allows them to influence the most early and highly impressionable years, where kids are extremely easily brainwashed by liberal education.

 

Or most easily brainwashed by there conservative parents. This sword cuts both ways. At least in a school there can be oversight.

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Or most easily brainwashed by there conservative parents. This sword cuts both ways. At least in a school there can be oversight.

Aye.  But the parents are individual cases.  A federally controlled education system is all-encompassing.  'The Big Lie' isn't perpetrated by one-offs.  It's perpetrated by a system.  We'll always have to deal with 'the crazies'.  They're annoying but mostly harmless.  I'm far more concerned about government sponsored propaganda.

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Well, I'm an icky, evil, Liberal who has beliefs which have apparently been likened to Socialists, but I don't necessarily agree with Socialism. I like a decent chunk of the ideas proposed by the Libertarian Party, but feel the movement ultimately won't work, because I believe it will lead to corporations committing all the atrocities our government already commit. Unfortunately, I feel no candidate adequately represents my beliefs, and it will probably be a long time until one comes along. I used to think Sanders was the silver lining in our deeply flawed system, but have come to realize his fiscal policies are hilariously flawed, as it doesn't account for anywhere near the amount of money his plans would apparently cost. Considering the community here apparently leans a particular way on the political spectrum, it's probably best I not go into any more detail yet, as, frankly, I don't want to piss anyone off. Perhaps I am wrong in saying this, and the community is more civil than my presumptions lead me to believe. We shall see.

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