TFC theme and 'automation'

[InsanityPie892 0]

Hello there, ive been a avid TFC player since the days when rocks acctually looked like little rocks on the ground and thought I would share some of my views, opinions, and possible ideas(Note: This isn't in suggestions since this thread isn't about my ideas as much as it is my views and general observations as a whole).Now to start off, like I said im a fan of the mod. I love the feeling of working up from nothing and thriving off the land and everything in between... but like everything in life, theres bound to be a hiccup or two along the way at points along the line.Number 1 - Brass tools and armor: Now I know this has been asked a bit in the past and I know the developers have asked the community about "Why should brass tools should be a thing?" and even though they said no one responded with any good reasons(My personal opinion, it's pretty obvious and shouldn't need to be spelled out... maybe that's just me? Most likely just me) I firmly beileve brass tools and armour should be craftable. As for my reasons, mainly balanceing purposes and to get rid of a small fragment of useless grinding when a player first starts off... I understand that grinding is a big part of the mod but the moment you can only find either sphalerite or casseritie and only one or the other over thousands and thousands of blocks of each other then starting the bronze age becomes all but impossible without starting a new save or traveling the distance on foot and inevitablly dieing again, and again on the way.The way I see it is it's fully believable that we could make brass tools and armour, just look at the uses it has in real life! Brass, a metal that is just a bit weaker then bronze(still pretty dang tough on it's own) so reasonably making brass tools, weapons, and armor in't that much of a stretch. Since we can vessel smelt it already that is also a plus for getting into the bronze age at some point without needing to worry "Will it be cassiterite or sphalerite within reasonable distance?"... obviously players still need bronze to progress at some points but brass is a more then reasonable substitue for bronze, even if it has slightly lower durability.To be frank, I myself am sick of collecting all this sphalerite when im in the copper age and keep needing to start a new save just to have some cassertite within a reasonable distance to be any use with making bronze tools(10000 blocks or more between the two is not reasonable in the slightest). The fact that the mod is trying to achive beleivable factors and I keep imagining my character holding vast amounts of this obviously reasonable tool capable material, yet unable to do anything with it irks me quite a bit more then it should since 'it's unbalanced' can't really explain why this hasn't been implemented, it would be perfectly balanced from what ive observed in all my hours of play and what I know of real life brass.Number 2 - Metals: This one is a big one that firmly breaks immersion for me. We have a player, whos character can build a settlement from nothing.. and some metals can't be crafted into tools and armors? I can understand the whole 'certain metals wouldn't be good for tools/armor' argument but what if I want to make a gold pickaxe just to show off my bling? What if I want a set of tin armor so I can be the tin man with the easy to penetrate armor?(no idea WHY you would do this but it's immersion breaking, I bet more then a few players have wondered these things for whatever reason.) In real life, it's possible to make these metals into tools/armor... people just don't since they aren't practicle. The only players who would spend the resources to make these wastes anyways are those wealthy players on a multiplayer server who want to show off their awesome or those that have lost practically everything to a skeleton/spider invasion and desperatly need something, no matter how weak it is, to protect themselves for a while until they get back on their feet... I will admit, ive had this happen more then once and had a gold/tin ingot pile and a bronze anvil/hammer after losing everything and I thought "Why the heck can't I make this into armor, or even a simple sword?! It's metal and sure the heck better then running around without anything!" and boy was it one heck of a immersion breaker for me and I gurantee im not the only one whos been there ;-; .Another factor, like I said a bit earlier, is the effect this would have on multiplayer enviroments to make for a slightly more realistic 'economy' setup. The wealthy players would collect gold like our real life ancestors so they can make tools or armor to show off their status as a thriving and wealthy player in the community and effectivly making gold even more sought after as a precious resource. Our ancestors also had gold things they wore all the time to show status so it's definatly not unreasonable and since gold, tin, and the other metals that don't have tools for them aren't really good for tools the general balance of the mod isn't effected much, if at all... except for brass, but since bronze is better then brass in the long run bronze will still be the go to metal for the bronze age with brass a secondary fallback until players can make it though the bronze age.Number 3 - Ages: Ive been reading here on the forums that TFCs getting steam power and possiblly some medival stuff later on and if that's true then why suddenly stop at the medival age? Right now the mod goes up to metal working but there isn't much beyond that currently from what all my playthoughs have shown... players just reach a certain point where progression just suddenly stops and they are just stuck at working steel since thats the current end game at the moment. After you reach steel theres no more ages to 'step into', the ages are what make to mod great in my opinion, not the survival(even if it has a large part of it).I love the feeling of seeing a far off future age and climbing the ladder from nothing to creating something grand over the stretch of time until I finally reach a future age and become relativly self sufficent. Sure the survival elements the mod introduces are amazing to give life to the immersion factor the ages give but what makes the mod 80% better is the players having distant goals to reach and certain obsticals to overcome. Take away the ability to progress anymore and what to you have then? I keep seeing various comments and posts on the forum that keep saying stuff like "keep the mod away from the industrial age" or "technology doesn't fit the theme of the mod" and I just have to ask, can anyone explain exactly why these are bad ideas without just saying "it doesn't fit" when it very well can if done right?Heres the downlow when it comes to the "it doesn't fit" complaint, the mod itself. This mod adds various features and implements others that the core, minecraft, was never intended for and the entire mod 'doesn't fit' the game it's modifying. So I wanted to state my view on these 'future' ages so it gets out there. Progression is a core aspect of the age 'evolution' the mod gives and if done right the industrial age and beyond would acctually add more to the mod then it would take away.Most hear the words "age" and any time period past medival and think "Well theres someone else wanting to add automation and ruin the fun of the mod..." but the fact of the matter is upkeep. TFC at it's core is a mod for server enviroments. Look at the computer your on, it's only got power due to the upkeep and regular maintence some random workers are doing on your local power plants and it only runs due to the parts being manufactured by a company that knew what it was doing.Try running ANY sort of power plant/machine without regualr maintence or repairs over time, see what happens... and that's not even counting the materials to even run them at all.To that effect it sounds exactly like it would fit into the TFC theme in the long run in my opinion. Obviously the groundwork for ages before industry was even thought of would need to be done so we wouldn't see any sort of tech for a very long time, if ever but yes it could fit if implemented with the heart of TFC in mind and would even benifit servers in the long run if it is. Not to mention the new gameplay elements and new ways to do things it would implement. Players can work from nothing up to the modern age in a beleivable and semi-realistic fashion... that's my dream mod but ive never seen ANY come as close as TFC has to makeing it a reality. Obviously anything past medival would most likely need a multiplayer server to be able to progress in any reasonable amount of time.Like I said, it wouldn't just be for show either since it would have to cost to benifit in the long run. Heres an example: A player makes a fridge but then they need to power it, at that point they can A.) make there own power station over a long stretch of time or B.) connect it to a local power plant owned by another player with their permission and possiblly need to pay for that players power service. Another example is a nuclear power plant, the blast of a melting down power plant is VERY devestating in real life so why not in the mod? To prevent such it would need a steady maintence like real nuclear plants do. It wouldn't be "gaining automation or a feature and taking away from survival" since to gain anything you need to put in a equal or greater effort.Shoot, alone the industrial age is PERFECT for terrafirmacraft and anyone who know the history will see why. The worldwide interactions, the communications and booming economy as well as the rapid expansion of man are all things that industy would bring to servers and if your on a greif/raid server(never got why people even play those...) then it would enhance that even more due to battles over precious resources, sabatoge, and economic rivalries just like the real life industrial age did.Honestly, after pointing all those factors out the "it doesn't fit" argument just flew out the nearest window so please let me know exactly why future based ages wouldn't work out if you can without the word 'fit'. I honestly want the ability to go beyond even medival so I can keep the 'spark' alive while climbing up the evolutionary ladder over a long term playthrough and to be blunt it doesn't matter if some players don't like it since you can easily ignore them and play the mod as it currently is(or the developers can add a config option, either or but it is easy to boycott it since you would need to activly progress into it to do anything with it. We need more ages anyways and the more the merrier in my book)Number 4 - Food: We have straw, ice, and wood or stone and we can't make a food storage box or something? I honestly don't see why we don't have a rudimentary fridge box or something that can be crafted after a certain point... I have all this food rotting in vessels that I have sitting in chests so you would think there would be some better food storage options later in the progression right?Not to mention crops, growing crops is great as it is but what we need is away to make greenhouses or something to help them survive the winter. I myself garden quite frequently and I have brought my various plants inside for the winter and replanted them outside for a year long harvest so this is a very reasonable addition. I have also cultivated seeds under lamplight and have gotten harvests from green beans and various others using only a lamp light so 'needing sun' also breaks immersion a little, plants don't need sun but I have observed that those grown under lamplight ARE slightly weaker and stunted then those grown in direct sunlight so maybe a light level system for crops? The lower the light level when they aren't in direct sunlight the less of a harvest you get and the more likely the crop dies sounds reasonable to me.Although for this to be effective a temperture system for us players to heat areas up would be needed. Would make greenhouses possible to.Number 4 - Cats: Im a cat person and not a big dog fan, I want a cat to join me on my adventures ;-;Numer 5 - Wild life: Has anyone else wanted to tame the deer or bear and domesticate them over time with breeding and getting the babies more familiar each generation, just to have a steady supply of venison or to ride the bear into battle to wreck the skeles or use it as a pack mule to carry your stuff on moving day or is that just me?Having a bear as a mount, while sounding a bit farfetched is acctually a real thing in real life but who cares about that?its a bear. that. you. can. ride.That would be 100% awesome xDAlso: Chickens < Phesants needs to be possible. That is all.Number 6 - Straw huts and roofs: I remember when thatch was solid... those were good times and made it a great roof material. Now it's non-solid and I got a rude awakining from the santa spider every night until I finally decided to rip the roof out for logs.What we need is a type of straw block that can be crafted for a solid type of thatch for building purposes and maybe even giving another option for players first hut, maybe crafting string and thatch together in a specific pattern?Number 7 - The Mod: This is the last one thankfully... this is already way to long as is. I already said it before but I love the mod. It has a charm to it and even though it makes the game more difficult I love it either way.I eagerly wait to see what new features and stuff is in future updates!Anywys, like I said... this got too long so sorry about that, hope it isn't too bad D: 

[Miner239 47]

Number 2: Too much item IDs?

[WillOfStone 33]

How about bears that shoot lasers out of their eyes?  That would be awesome!

[Shiphty 66]

Your argument for more ages doesn't exactly hold water.  You suggest that stopping at the medieval age is "Taking away the ability to progress anymore" but isn't that true no matter what age the player has to stop at?  There will always be a stopping point.  The difference is you want one further along.  Most folks who play this mod, and the creators, don't.  I'm glad this mod doesn't have futuristic ages, I think that would ruin it for me.  If anything I'd vote for a final age of simple steam-punk.  'Simple' being the operative word, the FTB stuff where you make bigger and bigger machines turns me off.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

First of all, brass is made with sphalerite, so adding brass to early-game metals does not stop the "I hope I can find sphalerite" mentality. You've already got three options. If you manage to find cassiterite, you can make regular bronze. If you manage to find sphalerite and bismuthinite, you can make bismuth bronze, and if you manage to find gold and silver, you can make black bronze. Any of those three metals will let you progress into the bronze age and onwards. Until then, it isn't the end of the world that you are stuck in the copper age. And if you take a look at the alloy ratio for making brass in TFC, you'll see it's more along the lines of gilding metal, so any tools out of it would be so soft they'd likely break on first use.

 

Number 2 won't be implemented primarily because TFC is a large enough mod as it is. We aren't going to put in the time and effort to add in a whole bunch of useless things that players are rarely ever going to make. Minecraft really isn't a game that's all about immersion anyways, considering how blocky everything is. And wealthy players already show off their status with the luxury of Blue/Red Steel stuff.

 

Number 3 - Once again, TFC is a massive mod. We have a hard enough time keeping up with it all without adding more ages. We are however working on compatibility with other mods, so TFC can be used as a jumping point for the other mods to add in more recent technology. Railcraft is one example.

 

Number 4 - http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Food#Preservation  As for crops needing sun, that was implemented because players were creating massive farms deep underground.

 

2nd Number 4 - Dunk just never got around to adding cats, and he's retired now.

 

Number 5 - Chickens and Pheasants are both already in the game. Not sure what you are talking about. You can also familiarize bears and deer so that they aren't so skittish of the player, you just can't breed them at this point in time.