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ShneekeyTheLost

Immersive Engineering + TFC Crossover - WIP

20 posts in this topic

Long time lurker, first time poster. I had an idea, and a basic plan of action, and decided to share with the class and see if anyone else likes this idea.

 

Basically, I really like TFC (although you can get land-mulligan'd pretty easily, but that's another set of tweaks for another day), but I wanted to add some sort of steampunk-ish tech to it. Technofirmacraft does this fairly well, but there's some things about it that didn't really quite sit well with me. So I saw Immersive Engineering, and thought to myself that it probably wouldn't be all that hard to implement cross-compatibility.

 

It should also be fairly balanced since getting any power generation up is going to require being in the Iron Age at a minimum.

 

The Plan:

 

'cause everyone's gotta have a plan, right?

 

* Ore compatibility is actually pretty good. This also gives players a viable use for lead (outside of Udary's mod) and a bigger use for silver and gold.

  - No aluminium, and I'd rather not get into trying to add it

  + Use Platinum. It's not really used for anything else, and the only things aluminium is used for in IE is the HV capacity stuff, like three recipes. Add in OreDict compatibility should be easy

 No need for aluminium replacement because there's no need for high voltage capacity since we got rid of the high peak machines

 

* Hemp

  - Use Jute instead, OreDict and done.

 

* Plant Oil

  - This is going to be a tough one. Probably going to have to set up pressing recipes for various veggies to press into plant oil (soybeans and corn come to mind) based on a weight to mB ratio to be determined. However, IE is balanced on plant oil being extremely easy to obtain, and TFC much more harshly restricts this, whatever I do. Also, that requires a heck of a change to how the Presser works that probably won't actually work.

+ Barrel recipe? Would have to watch out for conflicts. Also possibly stretching verisimilitude to the point of incredulity.

 I was unaware but olive oil is already implemented in TFC. Done.

 

* Ethanol

  - Use Alcohol types and done.

 

* Crafting table recipes (a couple of recipes use crafting tables)

  - New block used to replace it that does nothing but be a component for these recipes. Probably four treated planks.

 Implemented crafting tables in plain TFC already.

 

* Blast Blocks require magma cream

  - Not needed, blast furnace already exists and implemented in TFC. Use existing methods of making steel.

 

* Core Sample Drill would be awesome as an energy-based semi-non-mobile ProPick. Not sure if it is possible, though.

 

* Arc Furnace, while an interesting idea, is probably not needed. Some method of using energy to fuel a furnace would be nice, though.

 

* Crusher - probably going to just end up as a powered quern that doesn't need the stone replaced every so often since ore refining is handled completely differently

 

* Pottery Kiln? Would REALLY like something other than a pit kiln that can be used to fire clay products.

 

 

 

Balances And Tweaks

 

* Anvil recipe to make wire, which requires a Draw at the end. 

 

* External Heater being able to provide heat to various furnaces is going to probably be impossible, but worth a shot.

 

* Electrum being an alloy done in a crucible/vessel requiring 50% each of silver and copper. Not sure how easy this is.

 

* Treated Sticks being made with creosote surrounded by sticks, since sticks are no longer created with two planks. Alternately, barrel dipping recipe for both sticks and planks.

 

* Lantern will be removed in favor of an already amazing mod doing a much better version Possibly doing an electric lamp which consumes power continuously to produce light.

 

* Pistol will be removed because modifying the damage to comply with TFC damage numbers will likely be impossible, although at least all the resources required to make bullets makes it fairly balanced.

 

* Drill will be removed for obvious reasons.

 

 

Not certain how viable all of these ideas are, but I think this might be a really interesting way to get some steampunk tech into a TFC world without going completely overpowered.

Edited by ShneekeyTheLost
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You don't need to do the crafting table thing. That's already implemented in vanilla TFC. Craft one table to expand your grid, then craft another for a block that can be used as a crafting ingredient.

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Sound not far away from what I have been thinking. As soon as I am done with my own TFC add on, I wouldn't mind working on this as well.

But I really need some help with  textures for my own mod first.... :P

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Agreed Ray I like the sound of this too, maybe we can work together or something idk. :D

 

Most of the ideas here I find acceptable, the platinum instead of aluminium is a bit far off I would need to do research but I'm fairly sure we have a metal that's closer to the properties of aluminium.

 

Great post! :D

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Agreed Ray I like the sound of this too, maybe we can work together or something idk. :D

 

Most of the ideas here I find acceptable, the platinum instead of aluminium is a bit far off I would need to do research but I'm fairly sure we have a metal that's closer to the properties of aluminium.

 

Great post! :D

 

Sure, would be cool to work together... :-)

As far as I know, there is no big case adding an additional ore to TFC, I think you actually can do it the TFC ore config?

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Plant Oil

  - This is going to be a tough one. Probably going to have to set up pressing recipes for various veggies to press into plant oil (soybeans and corn come to mind) based on a weight to mB ratio to be determined. However, IE is balanced on plant oil being extremely easy to obtain, and TFC much more harshly restricts this, whatever I do. Also, that requires a heck of a change to how the Presser works that probably won't actually work.

+ Barrel recipe? Would have to watch out for conflicts. Also possibly stretching verisimilitude to the point of incredulity.

ly overpowered.

 

I'd think using the existing Olive oil press would be the easiest route. 

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FYI cryolite is aluminium. Just not a particularly good one compared to bauxite. I'd suggest looking how my pack implements IE and general compatibility. I'd highlight my creation of ore piles which are 100units. Alternatively make smaller grit piles that can be combined.

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Agreed Ray I like the sound of this too, maybe we can work together or something idk. :D

 

Most of the ideas here I find acceptable, the platinum instead of aluminium is a bit far off I would need to do research but I'm fairly sure we have a metal that's closer to the properties of aluminium.

 

Great post! :D

 

If adding in aluminium is not a major task, then by all means. I haven't had a chance to dig into the API to see how easy/hard it is to add new metals. The platinum use is a 'quick fix' using an already existing material which already has the conductive properties which are needed and is otherwise unused in the mod.

 

I'd think using the existing Olive oil press would be the easiest route. 

I... was not aware an olive oil press existed. However, this still presents a problem as you will need a consistent supply if you are running a biodiesel generator, and one harvest of olives is not going to provide enough for a year's supply by any means. I guess this means you could simply use it for 'on demand' peak output, and really the only excuses for that much energy are machines which will likely be removed (the auto-miner which won't work due to how TFC works and the arc furnace, which won't work because of how TFC handles the smelting system). Maybe it is less a problem than I think.

 

Thanks for the support, I'll see what I can do in my supposedly free time. But if anyone wants to take a stab at this, by all means, feel free.

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I'll work on getting a dev environment together once I get the next update for terramisc out. :D

 

I'm also doing some more research into other metal options, platinium has a very low ability to conduct electricity, lower than copper, silver would be a good option.

Edited by Powerman913717
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It would be cool to add oil... maybe we could ask Emris to borrow some of his code from his BC addon...

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I would want to keep this within TFC's time frame, alcohol and steam power can be made to fit (this is still very advanced, windmill and waterwheel would be the basis), vegetable oil was too hard to come by and crude oil refining is very advanced in terms of tech for TFC.

 

And aluminium is out of the question because aluminium refining into useable material is other some what advance and expensive process so that's why I suggested silver.

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I would want to keep this within TFC's time frame, alcohol and steam power can be made to fit (this is still very advanced, windmill and waterwheel would be the basis), vegetable oil was too hard to come by and crude oil refining is very advanced in terms of tech for TFC.

 

And aluminium is out of the question because aluminium refining into useable material is other some what advance and expensive process so that's why I suggested silver.

 

Well, that kind of rules out the IE water/windmills as well, as they generate electricity...

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If you are determined to stick to the TFC timeline then there is no point in you participating in making a cross over for IE as pretty much every portion of the mod is outside the TFC timeframe.

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Some things I feel like push the bounds of what is acceptable in TFC, and whatever is done for cross compatibility should be based in fact.

 

Electricity has been around for a very long time, just not in a widespread and widely used or even productive way, some greeks were messing around with static electricity in BCE times. Electricity based on motion is acceptable in TFC has it is just on the edge of the timeline, windmills and waterwheels function based on spinning a coil within a magnet to generate power. That same method has been used for many years starting with the basics like wind and water, then to steam, and in our modern age with nuclear power plants generating heat and steam for a similar system.

 

Something like oil is out of the time frame because refining oil is a complex process that is just out of the tech range, vegetable oil is some what applicable however the ability to produce enough food to produce the necessary amounts of oil.

 

Furthermore what machines are actually applicable in TFC? (Therefore not much of need for electricity in the first place)

Rock Crusher (Electric Quern) is something that could be used.

Maybe Electric Lighting, however that's a bit eh as we have lighting options.

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I'll work on getting a dev environment together once I get the next update for terramisc out. :D

 

I'm also doing some more research into other metal options, platinium has a very low ability to conduct electricity, lower than copper, silver would be a good option.

Silver is already going to be used in electrum for the medium voltage wires and applications, plus used in steel manufacturing in regular TFC, so there's going to already be a high demand for silver.

 

Gold is also used in making electrum and also used in Rose Gold for red steel, otherwise it would be nearly ideal.

 

Platinum has close to the same resistivity as iron does. Not great, but not horrible. And is otherwise unused in the mod. It beats out Mild Steel by quite a bit for conductivity, which is what IC2 uses.

 

 

I would want to keep this within TFC's time frame, alcohol and steam power can be made to fit (this is still very advanced, windmill and waterwheel would be the basis), vegetable oil was too hard to come by and crude oil refining is very advanced in terms of tech for TFC.

 

And aluminium is out of the question because aluminium refining into useable material is other some what advance and expensive process so that's why I suggested silver.

The ancient Greeks were producing Olive Oil in quantity, then the Romans, always trying to improve things, used pneumatic-driven presses to take it up to surprising levels of output for a preindustrial society. So vegetable oil is perfectly within the time frame cited.

 

Crude oil was used... crudely by the Greeks and Romans. It was used as an alternative to Turpentine for waterproofing ships, and at least one of the more popular theories about 'Greek Fire' is Naptha, which is fairly easy to crack. At the least, they did demonstrate the basic knowledge of cracking by leaving it in sealed jars out in the sun. Granted, they had nothing like modern petroleum products, but they at least had tar, naptha, and probably some of the more liquid (at room temperature) carbon chains. Still, I don't really think it is appropriate for this particular project. IE doesn't have oil, neither does TFC, so probably outside the scope of this project.

 

As far as power-consumers, we have as follows:

 

Crusher (powered quern)

electric heating element for furnaces (I had an idea about being able to regulate the power to the electric heating elements to more precisely monitor the temperature for those finicky alloys that like to go poof on you two plusses after being weldable).

Core Sampling Drill (non-mobile version of a ProPick that will drill all the way down and will give you somewhat more precise measurements of what you can expect in the area).

Maybe electric lighting (since other options tend to stop after a while unless you have red steel lamps filled with lava)

 

The electric heating element is going to require a steady draw of power when not in use, and a significant draw of power while in use, or you let it cool completely and have stupid amount of power requirements to spin it back up. The Mining Drill eats up a huge amount of power so it will likely run very slowly without the biofuel generator. Electric lighting is going to be low-level constant power draw.

 

In all, not having biofuel is probably not going to kill the conversion. The only block that needs that kind of peak power output is going to be the drill, which will simply run slower without it and maybe the electric heating element if you're doing a run of high-temperature alloy welding.

 

Actually... that obviates the need for an Aluminium replacement as well, because you will never need HV capacity wires, which is the only use for aluminium in the mod. We can just chop the top tier off the mod as a whole.

Edited by ShneekeyTheLost
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I honestly would just like to have basic mechanical power added for things like windmills and water wheels as power sources with drive shafts and gears (cogs etc) for power transfer. This would allow a plethora of multi block structures such as large grain mills or woodworking tools like band saws etc.

or restore red stone functions with steam power...

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I honestly would just like to have basic mechanical power added for things like windmills and water wheels as power sources with drive shafts and gears (cogs etc) for power transfer. This would allow a plethora of multi block structures such as large grain mills or woodworking tools like band saws etc.or restore red stone functions with steam power...

 

That's exactly what I have been thinking too, but IE don't have the mechanical side unfortunately... 

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I'm trying to use TFC and IE together, because these IE multiblock structures fits nicely into TFC [email protected]

In IE config I turned all ores off, and put terrafirmacraft name in excavator priority, but excavator return 'classical' stone embedded ores instead of TFC ores. (I checked with propick and seems, that these ores match propick tests and nuggets appearance). Is it possible to fix such issue? IE have some MineTweaker handlers, but not for excavator.

On the other hand, such excavators are not so precise in comparison to manual pickaxe, maybe I should leave it as it is, remove furnace recipes and use crusher to get metal dust or small nuggets?

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Excavator is like mining laser and creates ore and has nothing to do with what ores are near it. Read the IE manual for details. The issue is that because TFC ores aren't a full ingot value they aren't ore dictionaries to the oreIron oreGold etc values. It is these values that I.E. Uses for output and looks at the Mod list you enter in the config. 

 

There is a minetweaker module for the excavator. I'll see if I can dig up the details when I have more time. I know I gave them to OneWolfe previously. 

Found it. 

//Excavator

To add a entirely new vein to the world.
//MineralString, MineralWeight, FailChance, OreStringArray, OreChanceArray, DimensionIDArray, isWhitelistOrBlacklist //true=blacklist; false=whitelist
mods.immersiveengineering.Excavator.addMineral("Sediment", 30, 15, ["sand", "sandstone"], [50, 15], [0, 1], false);

To remove 1 output from all veins.
//MineralString
mods.immersiveengineering.Excavator.removeMineral("Bauxite");

To add 1 mineral to an existing vein.

//MineralString + OreString, Chance
mods.immersiveengineering.Excavator.getMineral("Magnetite").addOre("oreNickel", 0.75);

To remove 1 mineral from an existing vein

//MineralString + OreString
mods.immersiveengineering.Excavator.getMineral("Magnetite").removeOre("oreGold");

So what it is:

MineralString = the Vein name.

MineralWeight = the rate that they spawn in the world. I believe it is dependent on how many vein types there are and how they are weighted.

So (MineralWeight/Sum of all MineralWeight for all veins)*100 = % chance a vein will be that type. So if you have a total MineralWeight of 150 when you add up all veins. The MineralWeight of vein X is 15 then the chance of a vein being vein X is 15/150 * 100 = 10%.

FailChance = is the chance the bucket comes out empty.

OreStringArray = The actual ID of the ore itself as a ore-dictionary string.

OreChanceArray = The chances of getting the various ores in the OreStringArray (so in example sand would be 50/65 = 77% and sandstone would be 23%).

DimensionIDArray = The dimension IDs that this vein can spawn in, just 0 for TFC.

isWhitelistOrBlacklist = put true if you want to appear everywhere except that dimension and false to only appear in that dimension.

Edited by Bunsan
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2 hours ago, Bunsan said:

Excavator is like mining laser and creates ore and has nothing to do with what ores are near it.

Thank you for enlightening me, I tough that it works like BC quarry laser, but seems that it works similar to MFR laser and create additional 'fake' ores from nothing, not removing any existing ores? Were readings of mining drill scan just a pure coincidence with propick?

Well, on the other hand, excavator is a good solution to add some ores, which are absent in TFC but needed for other mods.

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