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ratch

Martial skills and you, Being a Soldier/Mercenary

21 posts in this topic

Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the suggestions forum?(Yes/No): yes
Answering "no" to the above question will result in your post being deleted.

While i was posting my Carpenter thread i thought about this idea as well. While all the threads thus far have been focused on the crafting side has anyone given thought to non-crafting combat? not everyone joins a server wanting to be a crafter or hermit that does everything. some people just want to get on be part of a community and kill stuff. maybe that Magic dude needs Zombie flesh and bones for his project. the butcher needs carcasses so he can fill meat and hide requests. Why should they have to go out, risk their life on something they may be bad at when a player that is good at it can do it for them and just get compensated. 

 

This brings me to the simplest skill implementation out of the suggestions. I'm not saying this from a standpoint of coding being easy, but form the stand point that there is no extra stuff added. most of whats it would take into account is already in TFC1. with weapon skills all this would be is a modifier to your damage. this is already calculate in TFC1 with smithing bonuses. if those carry over then a soldier character could enhance these further he's mastered <weapon> so a master crafted version would deal more damage in his hands than a novices. 

 

TFC1 adds the mace, so you could potentially have 4-5 skills. if you include armor. and armor could be broken down to light and heavy if the Devs want. for ease of coding a general armor skill would be the optimal choice. So you could have, Blades, Mace, Archery, Armor. a little expansion could also be Daggers, Swords, Mace, Archery, Light Armor, heavy Armor. 

 

Having martial skills will just improve Single and multiplayer experiences in this mod.

If the Devs already stated they were going to add this well then i feel dumb and this thread can get deleted without complaint.

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Ya, I think this is a good idea.  It might be nice if more than just a damage bonus were at stake for weapons.  Special moves of some kind perhaps.   Stunning.  Disarming.  Extra damage.   Armor skill could affect speed and swimming, and also add bonus encumbrance perhaps, to offset the armor weight (though if weight is linked to speed, it might be that only the weight bonus would be necessary).  Anything to differentiate players is probably good, so that you don't just end up with everyone being master smiths.

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May be a little out of the tfc scope, prob better in a specific mod. Specially if we are talking about changing steve way of moving.

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May be a little out of the tfc scope.

How would this be beyond the scope of TFC2?  Slowing movement based on encumbrance has already been proposed by Bioxx.  Neither the OP or I were suggesting changing animations.

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that's what I understood. by this:Special moves of some kind perhaps.   Stunning.  Disarming.. Hey,  I am not against the idea, just that if we are talking about changing the way the player fights and giving him special moves it might be something better developed as a standalone mod, talking a minecraft mod, not an addon. 

Maybe I just read too much into what you guys said, but I was seeing the players making moves like Mortal Combat. When I hear about martial arts that's what comes to my mind.

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To be clear then, I meant special in the effects, not the animation.  I think the OP was using "martial" in the true definition - pertaining to war and military things in general.  Not the pop culture sense of karate and the like.

 

I guess to me it would be entirely relevant and appropriate for TFC2, given that it will have a focus on progression through combat pacification of islands.  Why not make things a bit more interesting than hack-n-shoot? 

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Even adding piercing damage to skilled swordsman could give some difference...

 

Or maybe armor-break, which would decrease armor for some time, kinda like Desolator on DotA.

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Here's my suggestion regarding weapon skills specifically:

 

Depending on the level certain things should improve

 

1. Chance to hit. Never 100%. Very low for starting skill level, like 10%. Train to get better, after all - novice's only knowledge of swords is that it's like a stick, only better.

2. Critical chance. So even simple swing can get extra damage in.

3. Critical damage modifier. Higher threshold with greater skill levels. But generally randomized from say 150% weapon base damage for the player (which includes all other modifiers such as crafter's skill or w/e) to w/e top threshold is worthwhile balance-wise. So if you're really skilled - you can sometimes really nail'em.

4. On-hit effects unlocked (or chance increased from 0%) from certain skill levels and then increases chance to apply (and/or length of applied effect) - bleeding, stun, knockback, stagger, disarm, off-balance, w/e should apply to a chosen weapon.

5. Swing speed (or delay between swings) - since novice doesn't even sure how to handle a weapon.

6. Stamina (energy, w/e) consumption per swing. Maybe apply short debuff of some kind (on stamina regeneration or w/e) when swinging without or otherwise completely lock ability to swing or connect your swings - whichever you think is best. Say - hunger/thirst consumption. Maybe on lower levels - even hurting yourself when swinging while tired.

7. Block/parry chance and/or effectiveness regarding damage blocking and/or stamina consumption per blocked attacks, assuming chosen weapon can be used for blocking.

 

Any of said suggestions in my opinion would improve gameplay aspect of a fight both PvP and PvE (assuming mobs or w/e will also have various effect/damage type resistances and abilities with in some way randomized effectiveness to hurt and/or disable you). I expect it is difficult to tacke vanilla hardcode regarding battles, but I hope some/most of this can be implemented in in some way. It would make battle much more interesting than simple mashing of LMB like crazy.

Edited by Jee-Host{gm}
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It would make battle much more interesting than simple mashing of LMB like crazy.

As far as that goes, form what i've seen of people playing vanilla MC 1.9, they've revised combat so that spamming clicks won't work, you have to allow some time to recover between swings.  Plus 1.9 has shields.  With any luck, maybe their new code will better allow some of these special moves and so forth.  It'd definitely be nice if combat had more to it.

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As far as that goes, form what i've seen of people playing vanilla MC 1.9, they've revised combat so that spamming clicks won't work, you have to allow some time to recover between swings.  Plus 1.9 has shields.  With any luck, maybe their new code will better allow some of these special moves and so forth.  It'd definitely be nice if combat had more to it.

 

Oh, really? Didn't know - that just shows how long it took MC to get over this (6 years, eh?). I honestly didn't play new vanilla cause it's still flat out uninteresting, just like increasing flat damage with weapon skill. Concordantly - shields in terms of specific skill for using those would be uninteresting if it just eats up more damage (percentage or otherwise). But if it might on higher level have a chance to mirror some damage (simulation of shield bash) or put some status effects on either player or opponent - it might get interesting. Then again - nobody took down weapon block, right? So that point should still stand. In short - I bet there are opportunities to make combat not only more in-depth but also having a certain luck element, which should inspire careful preparations and valuing one's life.

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I think we should have a combat-based skill. No one can be an archer the first day. No one can kill a zombie with a heavy sword the first night. I totally support this idea. Some effects like bleeding, unarming or AoE for axes and mazes could make every weapon unique, while the coding shouldnt be too complex: there are plugins that do such things.

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I am not really sure where should a combat system go.

To be honest I always hated games like Mortal Combat. My friends would spend time memorizing all those key combinations and I would just go crazy with the control and win the fight. 20 years latter and is the same thing, I never cared about learning the key combinations.

On the other hand having a shield that just works as a bonus for the armor protection without requiring any player interaction feels really dumb.

Maybe a system where a right click raises the shield and can parry an attack, even arrows. A double right click creates a bash, as long as you are also moving in the target direction and can actually hit.

When using the sword with the left click, you have no protection from the shield.

One way that I like is to have a hot swap key to change from shield/sword to Bow and arrow. It should not be really instant, but needing to open the inventory is also not good. Of course there is no way to use the shield with the bow, as you need both hands for that.

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From what I can tell from watching videos, you do indeed have to right click to use the shield in 1.9.  It  doesn't just passively reduce damage.  And when you right click, it raises the shield, blocking a lot of view.  Even just carrying it around blocks a fair amount of view.  So it does appear to come with consequences.

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Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the suggestions forum?(Yes/No): yes

Answering "no" to the above question will result in your post being deleted.

While i was posting my Carpenter thread i thought about this idea as well. While all the threads thus far have been focused on the crafting side has anyone given thought to non-crafting combat? not everyone joins a server wanting to be a crafter or hermit that does everything. some people just want to get on be part of a community and kill stuff. maybe that Magic dude needs Zombie flesh and bones for his project. the butcher needs carcasses so he can fill meat and hide requests. Why should they have to go out, risk their life on something they may be bad at when a player that is good at it can do it for them and just get compensated. 

 

This brings me to the simplest skill implementation out of the suggestions. I'm not saying this from a standpoint of coding being easy, but form the stand point that there is no extra stuff added. most of whats it would take into account is already in TFC1. with weapon skills all this would be is a modifier to your damage. this is already calculate in TFC1 with smithing bonuses. if those carry over then a soldier character could enhance these further he's mastered <weapon> so a master crafted version would deal more damage in his hands than a novices. 

 

TFC1 adds the mace, so you could potentially have 4-5 skills. if you include armor. and armor could be broken down to light and heavy if the Devs want. for ease of coding a general armor skill would be the optimal choice. So you could have, Blades, Mace, Archery, Armor. a little expansion could also be Daggers, Swords, Mace, Archery, Light Armor, heavy Armor. 

 

Having martial skills will just improve Single and multiplayer experiences in this mod.

If the Devs already stated they were going to add this well then i feel dumb and this thread can get deleted without complaint.

I think it is up to your initial skill to deal damage with weapons. I am against martial skills, although I feel welcome to support the idea of extra weapons and armour.

Edited by NeverMore0011
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I like the idea of adding combat as a skill based ordeal but just slightly increasing damage based on skill may not be the best way about this. You'd end up with what you see on a lot of pvp / pve servers with mcmmo, people grind combat based skills solely, as being able to kill and bully those who invest time more in artistic pursuits like building or other grind fests like armour production, is easier than doing it yourself. TFC2 if it keeps similar damage/armour system will already be pretty balanced, with builders being able to be on equal odds damage wise with a sword in comparison to an elite pvper.

On the counter side to this, I think more bloodthirsty tendencies should be catered to. Maybe subtler changes like an increase in swing speed or less duration on debuffs against you. I really don't like the idea of armour skills as in a believable situation I don't think a knight would get better at wearing something, in fact I don't think anyone anywhere can get 'better at wearing something'. It just sounds a bit, well, silly.

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I like the idea of adding combat as a skill based ordeal but just slightly increasing damage based on skill may not be the best way about this. You'd end up with what you see on a lot of pvp / pve servers with mcmmo, people grind combat based skills solely, as being able to kill and bully those who invest time more in artistic pursuits like building or other grind fests like armour production, is easier than doing it yourself. TFC2 if it keeps similar damage/armour system will already be pretty balanced, with builders being able to be on equal odds damage wise with a sword in comparison to an elite pvper.

On the counter side to this, I think more bloodthirsty tendencies should be catered to. Maybe subtler changes like an increase in swing speed or less duration on debuffs against you. I really don't like the idea of armour skills as in a believable situation I don't think a knight would get better at wearing something, in fact I don't think anyone anywhere can get 'better at wearing something'. It just sounds a bit, well, silly.

I could not agree more. 

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+1 Support, we have skills, combat should be included in the skills

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I really don't like the idea of armour skills as in a believable situation I don't think a knight would get better at wearing something, in fact I don't think anyone anywhere can get 'better at wearing something'. It just sounds a bit, well, silly.

Maybe the knight gets better knowledge on how to block effectively using his armor, not letting any attack strike true.

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on top of this, you should not be able to hold a sword/any other item whilst using a bow an arrow (which you can in MC 1.9) -maybe even some other two-handed weapons such as longswords or battle-axes where they have some damage, reach or other advantage over something like a vanilla sword (which I would say is an arming sword or shortsword). I just think that this would make more sense, and add another way to open up opportunities for certain weapons that might be unbalanced otherwise

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