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31 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Stroam said:

Flying mounts? I seriously doubt it. Kinda game breaking on a progressive island map.

Not necessarily.  But that's a topic for another thread I suppose.

Chicken coop?  Both Etho's LPs, plus at least a couple others I've watched.  Almost every LP I've watched they've made barns.  I'm not saying it's not believable.  But if all the player has to do is slap a few logs up to block the sky, what's the point?  By the time the player wants a really huge herd they'll have plank blocks and good axes.   The blocks never wear out, and they're not costly to make.  So the mechanic wouldn't add anything to the animal care routine or tech ladder.   Now if thatch became placeable in layers, and in the cold animals would seek out such 'bedding', and the bedding wears out, then that adds to the animal maintenance routine.  And you could say the bedding wears out faster if exposed to the sky and much faster if rained/snowed on (so at the same time you're encouraging a structure to be built over the bedding).  Then you're adding something that wears out over time, so the player has to check it every so often, because if they forget it, then in cold weather the animals' health will suffer.  That adds to the routine.  It would also add another use for thatch, which currently you get huge surpluses of.  I think the thatch would operate fine with random update ticks, so no extra server load.

Salt licks could be as simple as a 3x3 crafting grid of salt = block, or it could involve grinding up minerals and boiling them together with salt in a cauldron, in a sort of crucible-like mechanic.  But even with a 3x3 grid, it's a limited resource.  Not really very effectively limited in TFC1 (you either have none, or all you'll ever need), but at least you have to find it first.

Illness and age makes sense. It would definitely be nice to have one variable control as much as possible, for server purposes.  At least, I'd imagine.

I think some death with illness would be good, in large herds.  But I do think it'd be good to at least have a config option for there to be a floor, so that your herd doesn't die off entirely.  Again, for SMP.  I know, not the mod author's responsibility.  But it helps the community out if it's baked in rather than requiring yet another mod that must stay up to date with the game.  If you come back from long absence and find your animals all at 0 health and requiring a minimum of two months of constant care just to get back to neutral health, that's enough of a penalty.  Or even if they're just at neutral (access to grass and water), so all the work the player maybe put in to get them to max health is gone, and you've got to wait awhile between products, that's probably an ok penalty too, imo. 

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The reason I don't like a minimum number that is safe is because how does the game know that the 5 I have in this pen and the 5 I have I have in a pen 16 blocks away are both suppose to count against the player? If it doesn't then the player can have 100 animals and not fear any of them getting sick because they are spaced so far apart. So at least for the illness mechanic it would have to be an all or none mechanic. If the animals never died from sickness, Again I could have a flock of 100 sheep and only keep 5 of them healthy in a separate pen, so that I could have 5 producers and a large flock of sheep just for the sake of having a large flock of sheep and it costs me nothing extra. Don't have to take care of those 95 sheep at all if there is no death penalty. I can keep breeding those 5 health ones and if one of them becomes troublesome just add it to the larger flock and forget about it. If people do want that minimum number you are right in that it could be done with a mod. If we use TFC 1 as an example with two mods, Udary and carpenters blocks, you can bag any amount of animals then store them in carpenter safe. It's so easy to find mods that safe guard your animals by putting them in item form that you need not worry about keeping up with TFC 2.

Edited by Stroam
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They wouldn't count against a specific player.  I'm suggesting that they be totaled over a large area, not just one chunk.  If it was just a per-chunk check, then ya, it'd be really easy to game the system.  Given that sluices scan a 201x201 area, I can't help but think it'd be possible for a disease check to scan a similar area.  If the player wants to pen their animals hundreds of blocks apart to avoid it, fine, they're going to waste a ton of time running around between animals anyway.     As for a floor, I was thinking it would work something like this: 

DISEASE SPREAD WITH A 'SAFE FLOOR'
 

Spoiler

 

The player has some animals.  None have a disease.  Each animal would be performing a check every so often.  Whatever is code appropriate.   First it checks for a new disease (unless animals can have only 1 disease).  For a healthy animal in it's native climate this might be very low.  1 in 1000 or something.  If this check fails, no new disease.   But if it succeeds, that animal has caught a new disease.  But if if it is still below the number of diseases limit, it also checks for existing diseases in surrounding animals of the same type, and how many have it.   Types would be basically mammal, avian, reptile, or monster.  So this 'catch disease check' chance could be (numberofothers) in 1000, also modified for overall animal health and biome appropriateness.    So the more animals that have the disease the more likely it is to spread on a per-check basis.  But moreover, the more animals there are the more checks are being performed.  So it's burning the candle at both ends, sort of.   And check is performed for each present strain of disease. 

But if you want a safe floor, you have the check discriminate: non-fatal diseases perform the above check as stated, unless every single animal has the disease.  But fatal diseases perform a sum check.  If animals can only have one disease it simply checks total animals of *it's own species*, and subtracts the number infected with itself.  If the difference is X or less, then it does not spread (X is the 'safe floor').  If an animal can have multiple deadly diseases, the animal might store a variable for this, so that any given deadly disease can check for that variable, and make sure at least X animals of a given species do not have any deadly disease.  Note that the disease spread check for liklihood checks type, while the safety check is species specific.  In this way, deadly diseases can still occur and spread, and kill animals across species, but each species can be given a safe floor number. 

So for example Steve has 10 cows and 10 pigs.  five pigs and two cows have the same deadly disease, and the safe floor is 5.  Every other factor is a wash and only infected numbers are in play.    So a cow checks, and has a 7 in 1000 chance to catch the disease (five pigs plus two cows; all mammals).  This check succeeds.  But this is a deadly disease, so now the cow checks the number of cows present vs infected already.  10-2 = 8.  Safe floor is 5.  8>5, so this cow now catches the disease.  But now a pig does its disease check.  It now has an 8 in 1000 chance (5 pigs plus 3 cows).  Check succeeds.  However the subsequent safe check results in 10 total pigs minus 5 already infected, = 5.  Since this is equal to the safe floor of 5, the pig does not actually get the disease.  Meanwhile, if the player does not take care of the other 5 sick pigs, they will all sicken and die.  The remaining 5 pigs are safe from deadly diseases, but not merely debilitating diseases, which have no safe floor.  The check could further drill down based on gender, to ensure X of each gender of a species are safe (small comfort if 3 cows are safe, but they're all male). 

Variables could include a 'safe floor' number (applies separately for male and female), a 'max diseases' number (for non-deadly diseases) and a 'max plagues' number (for deadly diseases).   Default game for single player could be 0 safe floor, 3 diseases, 2 plagues.  Or whatever.  But players could customize for a less (or more) disease-filled experience, and also to keep a safe floor of animals, just in case. 

 

Now what I don't know, is how burdensome this becomes on a processor, each animal checking such a large area.  Perhaps it would lessen the load if the mobs only actually perform this check every 6 game hours?  Or what if the check resides on the player themselves, so the processing doesn't ramp up drastically with animal numbers?  I don't know these things, but that basic framework was my general notion.  

And sure, maybe when magic comes into play, there's magical ways for players to safe-guard their animals.  And in a server context people can purchase that safeguard from mages.  It's certainly a possibility.

 

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I say the safe floor is not effective at doing what you want it to do. Nothing stops the neighbor from raising the same type of animal while you are gone and then your animals dying off because he still has above the safe floor. 

As far as performance goes, I don't think it'd scale well, but am currently unable to provide any proof, so that doesn't mean much.

If you are looking for a way to protect animals while away for long periods of time you needs something else other than a safe floor. The only way to do that and prevent people from having unnecessary herds is imposing a death penalty and having an option for people to turn their animals into items or blocks. Heh, imagines a field full of stone cow statues and trying to go cow tipping

 

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4 hours ago, Stroam said:

I say the safe floor is not effective at doing what you want it to do. Nothing stops the neighbor from raising the same type of animal while you are gone and then your animals dying off because he still has above the safe floor.

I guess my limited SMP background is that animals are communal town property, and its highly unlikely to have another town within sight of your own.  The magic solution is definitely better.  And if anyone can do anything then that's probably good enough.  I was approaching it from the perspective of not everyone being a magic user.

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If it's communal, then the non-magic solution is to have someone watch and take care of them while you are away.

Edited by Stroam
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