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infinus5

ore milling and concentration (get more ore for your hard work)

26 posts in this topic

hi there

i have noticed that even with ore generation set up so that ores will spawn in large quantities, ores seam to be used up fairly fast.

my idea is this, what if ores could be concentrated to make them richer (easyer to melt down and process)

this would not replace the current mining and smelting system, but could act as a higher level in a more advanced stage of the game.

in the real world, ores removed from under ground mines need to be processed to make it suitable for smelting.

ores that are mined within the mod would could still be smelted in a camp fire or bloomery, but if the ore was to be milled you could get ore powder.

ball mill

to make the powder, you must construct a "ball mill"

the ball mill would crush the ores down into a fine powder that is ready for direct smelting or can be sent through more processing.

ore powder could than be agian put directly into a fire pit, or put through a ferther chemical processing in a concentration tank.

concentration process

ore powder is dropped into the tank and mixed with (limestone, murcury, or other chemicals). different chemicals used in different combinations = more or less ore powder produced

ore concentration would also have a side effect.

after ores are concentrated, the "tailings" waste from the mineral processing would be very toxic.

i have a seperate post about my idea for acid drainage and its effects on the natural world. look under acid drainage and bacterial growth

here are some pics of a ball mill in action

Posted Image

and here is an acid concentration tank

Posted Image

i am open to other ideas

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Pretty much a ball mill is a container, with hard, preferably hard objects inside it, and you roll said container.

A ball mill has a few quirks.

  • You can use the mill to smooth items, don't really know how, you'd need to use a small-soft milling medium
  • Processing speed/efficiency is based on the milling medium's size, amount, hardness, and shape compared to the items' being milled
  • The larger capacity drum, the more you can put into it
  • The more you put in a mill/ the larger the mill, the more power you need make it run
For a ball mill, all that matters is how fast you want to mill something, and what you want it to end up as.

The rest is really spending time learning what set up works.

You could use a ball mill to rehone a tool, but the results are very questionable, and it may simply degrade the tool into material detritus.

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Err...I'm not comfortable with how modern these methods seem, but I can't find anything actual dates as to when they were devised, and the concepts that make them work seem simple enough. As a matter of fact, because of how straight forward the concepts are, I wouldn't mind if they were dressed down to suit a more dark-ages aesthetic. ...Could a manual ball mill even work at any reasonable speed? What kind of GUI-minigame could we devise to make it interesting? (Personally I believe the one thing this mod must absolutely avoid is complete automation.) ...Anyway, different concentration methods (Hydraulic/Froth/Magnetic?) could be used for different ores to encourage large-scale ore concentrating rooms/plants.

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Yeah, settling tanks and that hubbub.

And a manual ball mill could very much work.

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Err...I'm not comfortable with how modern these methods seem, but I can't find anything actual dates as to when they were devised, and the concepts that make them work seem simple enough. As a matter of fact, because of how straight forward the concepts are, I wouldn't mind if they were dressed down to suit a more dark-ages aesthetic. ...Could a manual ball mill even work at any reasonable speed? What kind of GUI-minigame could we devise to make it interesting? (Personally I believe the one thing this mod must absolutely avoid is complete automation.) ...Anyway, different concentration methods (Hydraulic/Froth/Magnetic?) could be used for different ores to encourage large-scale ore concentrating rooms/plants.

ball mills have been used since the romans to crush gold and copper ores on a large scale. back in those days, the system was powered by a water wheel, men, or a horse.

concentration tanks go back to the early middle ages in german and french galena mines, and were used to seperate the different metals from each other.

i don t think the eras of the equipment matter as i did mention that that these sort of equipment would be high level technology

though i get your point.

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Pretty much a ball mill is a container, with hard, preferably hard objects inside it, and you roll said container.

A ball mill has a few quirks.

  • You can use the mill to smooth items, don't really know how, you'd need to use a small-soft milling medium
  • Processing speed/efficiency is based on the milling medium's size, amount, hardness, and shape compared to the items' being milled
  • The larger capacity drum, the more you can put into it
  • The more you put in a mill/ the larger the mill, the more power you need make it run
For a ball mill, all that matters is how fast you want to mill something, and what you want it to end up as.

The rest is really spending time learning what set up works.

You could use a ball mill to rehone a tool, but the results are very questionable, and it may simply degrade the tool into material detritus.

in early iran copper tools were heated and dumped into a form of ball mill to harden / polish tool heads.

the heavy stonee balls used were made of dolomnite or granite, would slowly pound away the rough edges and flash from newly cast tool parts.

after several hours of this, the tools are put into a smaller mill and polished with valcanic ash.

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ball mills have been used since the romans to crush gold and copper ores on a large scale. back in those days, the system was powered by a water wheel, men, or a horse.

concentration tanks go back to the early middle ages in german and french galena mines, and were used to seperate the different metals from each other.

i don t think the eras of the equipment matter as i did mention that that these sort of equipment would be high level technology

though i get your point.

I figured as much. Usually, as long as the methods don't entail totally synthetic things or microscopic precision stuff, the process is ancient. Thanks for enlightening me. Anyway, I heard from a person who heard from a person who apparently heard from Bioxx that as a rule of thumb, inventions from the last four hundred years are out. Of course that's not the case this time. :U

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I figured as much. Usually, as long as the methods don't entail totally synthetic things or microscopic precision stuff, the process is ancient. Thanks for enlightening me. Anyway, I heard from a person who heard from a person who apparently heard from Bioxx that as a rule of thumb, inventions from the last four hundred years are out. Of course that's not the case this time. :U

good to hear, but that still means that we have alot of work to do when it comes to making this work in game.

for example what would the ball mill look like and be made from? would it be a player built structure or a block?

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For sake of expansion, from a block into a larger structure with use of "additional structure blocks" much like Arthur's Gold.

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whats "authur's gold"? never heard of it. but making it into a structure makes sence though i do like when its just a block for compatibilaty with other mods like buildcraft and industrial craft

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I've never heard of Arthur's Gold, but I think I get what he's saying.

He wants to add new blocks that are used in the construction of a player built structure. A loose example would be adding a ball mill tank block, and ball mill crank block, then allowing the player to assemble the a functioning ball mill. Obviously there are better, more creative ways to implement that, but I don't presently know enough on the subject to come up with a nice, clever idea.

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whats "authur's gold"? never heard of it. but making it into a structure makes sence though i do like when its just a block for compatibilaty with other mods like buildcraft and industrial craft

It's simply you start out with one single block, and then you add onto it with 'ball mill structure' blocks, but simply adding on one or two blocks won't make the mill 'size up' or really 'upgrade', much like the bloomery.

In Arthur's Gold, you build structures by making 'parts' of a structure, like an outpost, or a workshop, even a catapult, after constructing a block, you'd have to place it within a very simple rectangular pattern, and with all the pieces assembled you get the structure.

In TFC, this is only really seen with the bloomery/charcoal pit, adding capacity, or adding a bellows to a heating apparatus, like a forge, or fire pit.

And for something like a ball mill, it'd be interesting how one would have to arrange the blocks to make the mill 'tier up'.

And for your concerns about compatibility, the steel mill, and coke thing from railcraft is fully compatible with buildcraft, and so on, the i/o being the interactable blocks on these larger structures.

I've never heard of Arthur's Gold, but I think I get what he's saying.

He wants to add new blocks that are used in the construction of a player built structure. A loose example would be adding a ball mill tank block, and ball mill crank block, then allowing the player to assemble the a functioning ball mill. Obviously there are better, more creative ways to implement that, but I don't presently know enough on the subject to come up with a nice, clever idea.

But yeah, considering, this would be a far more competent way to assemble larger pieces:

Construct the drum, place a crank mechanism onto it-making sure it is the right size for what you are doing-and adding a few supports to the structure.

Coding it may be a hell, so a simpler template like what you use for the bloomery, and charcoal pile may be easier.

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I've never heard of Arthur's Gold, but I think I get what he's saying.

He wants to add new blocks that are used in the construction of a player built structure. A loose example would be adding a ball mill tank block, and ball mill crank block, then allowing the player to assemble the a functioning ball mill. Obviously there are better, more creative ways to implement that, but I don't presently know enough on the subject to come up with a nice, clever idea.

i see

i was just confused if we were talking about how structures are made in the mod (ie forges / bloomeries) vs structures made with "arthurs gold"

and btw your idea makes sence, as in the different componant blocks coming together to make the mill

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It's simply you start out with one single block, and then you add onto it with 'ball mill structure' blocks, but simply adding on one or two blocks won't make the mill 'size up' or really 'upgrade', much like the bloomery.

In Arthur's Gold, you build structures by making 'parts' of a structure, like an outpost, or a workshop, even a catapult, after constructing a block, you'd have to place it within a very simple rectangular pattern, and with all the pieces assembled you get the structure.

In TFC, this is only really seen with the bloomery/charcoal pit, adding capacity, or adding a bellows to a heating apparatus, like a forge, or fire pit.

And for something like a ball mill, it'd be interesting how one would have to arrange the blocks to make the mill 'tier up'.

And for your concerns about compatibility, the steel mill, and coke thing from railcraft is fully compatible with buildcraft, and so on, the i/o being the interactable blocks on these larger structures.

i see and btw i forgot that this is a forge mod, so anything we add makes it mostly compatable with other mods

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Arthur's gold is another game that takes a similar route to how we build larger structures in TFC, but TFC is more complicated since it uses interactions between entities, special blocks, and normal blocks. Arthur's gold only uses one generic 'XXX structure' block per structure, so you can't mix and match blocks like we can.

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i am going to expariment tonight with regular minecraft blocks to see what would best look like a ball mill

i ll post pics later

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So basically you're talking about adding a macerator from tekkit (IC2). But this macerator-type machine would be more hands-on in how it works and how its used by adding chemicals and stuff. I like the idea.

If you dunno what the macerator is, basically, you throw in one ingot and it crushed it into two dust, doubling your return.

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So basically you're talking about adding a macerator from tekkit (IC2). But this macerator-type machine would be more hands-on in how it works and how its used by adding chemicals and stuff. I like the idea.

If you dunno what the macerator is, basically, you throw in one ingot and it crushed it into two dust, doubling your return.

yes i do know of the macerator, though a ball mill is very differnet in how it crushes the materials it is very simaler to a ball mill. a ball mill only uses iron spheres and a spinning tub to grind up ores.

yes a ball mill would double your erturn on minerals or metals placed into it through farther processing, but the down side to this would be very toxic tailings.

tailings have to be delt with, improper desposal of these materials will cause acid drainage and damage to the nearby environment.

this creates a ballance in my opinion, you gain more metal, but you cause harm to your area.

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I do have an idea about how to make the ball mill...

-You make the mill structure out of a metallic block -Something hard enough to endure the constant ball hitting from inside-. You will have to let a 1 block hole in the side, and some space from where you can enter the structure.

-Then, with the help of your chisel and some regular granite blocks -or any kind of rock that suits the usage it's gonna have- you create the balls of the mills, some "stone balls". You place LOTS of them inside, and then cover the hole you made for being able to enter the structure.

-Finally, you make a "insert here a good name for the block that make the mill a actually work" and place it in the previously made hole.

That would cover the creation of the ball mill, but not it's powering. I don't really have ideas about that point...

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I do have an idea about how to make the ball mill...

-You make the mill structure out of a metallic block -Something hard enough to endure the constant ball hitting from inside-. You will have to let a 1 block hole in the side, and some space from where you can enter the structure.

-Then, with the help of your chisel and some regular granite blocks -or any kind of rock that suits the usage it's gonna have- you create the balls of the mills, some "stone balls". You place LOTS of them inside, and then cover the hole you made for being able to enter the structure.

-Finally, you make a "insert here a good name for the block that make the mill a actually work" and place it in the previously made hole.

That would cover the creation of the ball mill, but not it's powering. I don't really have ideas about that point...

how about a hand crank or cattle wheel

better would be a water wheel

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Eh, ball mills, they don't have to be sealed, the beauty of it is how you can chuck items into it unceremoniously, and it'll still pulverize, or smooth them.

I still advocate using something like placing sheets, or double sheets [if it is large enough] to make the drum, and then supporting it with a few supports [to hold up the structure, if it is large], some rails [so it can roll on the tracks], and a crank mechanism [attached to the side of the drum to roll it powered by whatever].

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Eh, ball mills, they don't have to be sealed, the beauty of it is how you can chuck items into it unceremoniously, and it'll still pulverize, or smooth them.

I still advocate using something like placing sheets, or double sheets [if it is large enough] to make the drum, and then supporting it with a few supports [to hold up the structure, if it is large], some rails [so it can roll on the tracks], and a crank mechanism [attached to the side of the drum to roll it powered by whatever].

i agree with this idea, though from experiance anround big mining equipment, you don t just toss something in to a ball mill. perhaps the "mill block" part of the construction should look like an open drum on one side, where materials could be loaded into, and on the other side ores would be ejected.

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Well, whatever the case, I wouldn't assume one would be allowed to let a major league pitcher be the one to insert materials.

And again, having that back end would be if you invested in grates :/

Sometimes you want to make powder, or smooth a cast item

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Well, whatever the case, I wouldn't assume one would be allowed to let a major league pitcher be the one to insert materials.

And again, having that back end would be if you invested in grates :/

Sometimes you want to make powder, or smooth a cast item

makes sence

heres some omre ideas

- grinding balls would come in three types = large, medium and small

- the size of the balls dictates how fine the ore will be crushed

- grinding powder could be added (made from clay and crushed granite)

- grinding powder could be addded with small milling balls to smooth out cast tools

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  • The larger the mill, the more items you can place in them.
  • The mill usually processes things into smaller items with more milling medium
  • Heavier mediums tend to be better at pulverizing
  • Porcelain grinding mediums usually have the least contamination in its pulverized output
  • Having a grate to automatically output processed ores usually are of less quality than ones that are allowed time
  • Large amounts of small mediums can pulverize hard objects, but will be slower at it
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