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dabman10

Confused about Ores

10 posts in this topic

I'm a little confused about what's been said on a few videos and guides about smelting. I was given the impression that there were a few options to creating higher-tier metal items if you couldn't find cassiterite, like rose gold, black bronze, or bismuth bronze. However, from all of my attempts, it seems like every metal past copper requires a bronze anvil, which means tin. Bismuth bronze requires tin all the same.

I've also heard that it's possible to go straight to copper without having to use a tier 1 metal, such as bismuth. My friend and I tried countless times trying to smelt copper in a firepit, using every high-temperature type of wood and a bellows. Nothing worked, as the copper was only able to get to Orange****. Any tips here? It says in the wiki itself that you can.

I'm also wondering why brass isn't a workable metal when zinc and bismuth - definitely not pure metals you could realistically make any useful tool out of - are. Brass is stronger than copper is, and I think it would make a good top tier metal if one cannot find cassiterite. Brass has been used for ages, even before bronze I believe, and there was some use for weapons/tools for Egyptians and Romans, and possibly Chinese.

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You can use bismuth as a starter metal, along with zinc, as their melting temperatures are low. After that make a chisel and bloomery. There you go, went straight to copper.

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I'm a little confused about what's been said on a few videos and guides about smelting. I was given the impression that there were a few options to creating higher-tier metal items if you couldn't find cassiterite, like rose gold, black bronze, or bismuth bronze. However, from all of my attempts, it seems like every metal past copper requires a bronze anvil, which means tin. Bismuth bronze requires tin all the same.

I've also heard that it's possible to go straight to copper without having to use a tier 1 metal, such as bismuth. My friend and I tried countless times trying to smelt copper in a firepit, using every high-temperature type of wood and a bellows. Nothing worked, as the copper was only able to get to Orange****. Any tips here? It says in the wiki itself that you can.

I'm also wondering why brass isn't a workable metal when zinc and bismuth - definitely not pure metals you could realistically make any useful tool out of - are. Brass is stronger than copper is, and I think it would make a good top tier metal if one cannot find cassiterite. Brass has been used for ages, even before bronze I believe, and there was some use for weapons/tools for Egyptians and Romans, and possibly Chinese.

I'll respond to each of your paragraphs individually.

1)The whole Rose Gold, Bismuth Bronze, and Black Bronze thing is an alternative to making regular Bronze, not starter metals.

2)It has been said many many times from early on that Copper can be smelted in a firepit under the right conditions, but to my knowledge the only proof is hearsay. There have been no videos or pictures of it happening as far as I have seen. It could be that it once worked, but the heating system has been changed numerous times since and may have made it impossible. It may have never worked in the first place.

3)Brass is actually in the game made from copper and zinc like you said, but has no applications yet. After a quick google of its uses, the primary choices are mechanisms (like locks, gears, and doorknobs), musical instruments, and plumbing/electricals. It could be Bioxx just has one of these options planned for the far far future. There are a lot of "useless" things in TFC, but it just means they have plans that aren't relevant now. As for the comment about copper and zinc not being viable for tools, you have to remember that this mod is not going for realism, it is going for Bioxxrealism. Basically stuff that makes sense. Example: metal with low melting point> easier to obtain> lower quality metal tools. We have Red and Blue Steel, and those don't exist after all. ^_^

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2)It has been said many many times from early on that Copper can be smelted in a firepit under the right conditions, but to my knowledge the only proof is hearsay. There have been no videos or pictures of it happening as far as I have seen. It could be that it once worked, but the heating system has been changed numerous times since and may have made it impossible. It may have never worked in the first place.

I have heard rumors about that if you move your firepit up into the mountains the low preasure, will make the heat increase!

I do not know if it is true but i will test it if i ever find an ore that can be melted... :P

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I have heard rumors about that if you move your firepit up into the mountains the low preasure, will make the heat increase!

I do not know if it is true but i will test it if i ever find an ore that can be melted... :P

The firepit's heat is definitely effected by elevation. I was saying that there was never any proof that it was enough for copper to be workable.
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valkupo,

So are you saying that you can make black bronze without a source of tin? From my understanding, you have to have tin or there's no way of making a bronze anvil, which is required to make black bronze or rose gold.

I understand the difference between realism and bioxxrealism, but it doesn't make sense that brass cannot be made into tools. You have copper, you have zinc, but no hopes of finding tin. There should be a higher-tier metal that doesn't require any source of tin, and brass could definitely be it, although it certainly wouldn't be much better. Even if brass didn't exist, it would still make sense for there to be a side tech tree in a game that can have ore deposits so vastly far apart from each other.

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valkupo,

So are you saying that you can make black bronze without a source of tin? From my understanding, you have to have tin or there's no way of making a bronze anvil, which is required to make black bronze or rose gold.

I understand the difference between realism and bioxxrealism, but it doesn't make sense that brass cannot be made into tools. You have copper, you have zinc, but no hopes of finding tin. There should be a higher-tier metal that doesn't require any source of tin, and brass could definitely be it, although it certainly wouldn't be much better. Even if brass didn't exist, it would still make sense for there to be a side tech tree in a game that can have ore deposits so vastly far apart from each other.

I'm saying Black Bronze does not in fact require any tin.

Rose Gold is made from Copper and Gold, worked on a Copper Anvil

Black Bronze is made from Copper, Gold, and Silver, worked on a Copper Anvil

Bismuth Bronze is made from Copper, Tin (not helpful in this particular scenario), and Bizmuth, Worked on a Copper Anvil.

Bronze is made from Copper and Tin, Worked on a Copper Anvil.

Brass is another potential option yes, but you will notice you can't make Silver, Gold, or Sterling Silver tools/anvils either. This means Bioxx has plans later on for them that may have you saving it for other things.

I am not shooting down your Brass idea, I am letting you know you have alternatives already. If you want to make Brass another Bronze-level metal, I would say put it in the Suggestions section.

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Here's my misunderstanding: I didn't know you could make rose gold and black bronze anvils. Now everything makes 100% sense.

That's for trusting the wiki (complete absence of this information).

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I can confirm that you can in fact smelt copper in a firepit. I can provide a series of screenshots if you'd like. All I know is that you have to be using hickory logs, (hickory has the highest burning temperature of all the wood types), you have to run bellows on the fire literally constantly, (You can't even check the copper, you have to keep pumping those bellows) and that I did it at an altitude of +156.

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You also need to have a cleared area around the firepit- a 3x3x3 cube of air centered above the firepit that only has your bellows in it.

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