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16 posts in this topic

Grain decays a lot faster than I'd like, even in Vessels. And even then, more structures are always fun-so why not a Granary?

Must be constructed of stone, with a minimum capacity of 1 block, and a maximum volume of 5 blocks per Y-level, in the shape of a +. A granary must be built on stone brick or raw stone, and capped-with stone brick, wood, or thatch in reverse order of effectiveness-and made of stone or wood, again in reverse order of effectiveness. Within, grain decays at one tenth speed (wood) or one percent speed (stone brick.) Placing the Granary Hatch creates a context sensitive space behind it akin to the Bloomery, turning Grain dropped from above into Grain Blocks.

Grain is removed from the granary by breaking a block at the bottom (resulting in the Grain Blocks within returning to item form) or right-clicking the Granary Hatch to bring up the Granary interface. The total capacity of the Granary and current amounts will be displayed in said interface, and blocks immediately adjacent to the Granary Hatch will be immediately available for removal, represented as a stack in a central interface space like a barrel.

Kind of vague and not without issues but I wanted to get the idea down, and out for discussion.

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I like the idea, we shall see.

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Could this be implemented as a kind of 'super barrel' - with each level up adding another 'barrel's worth' of slots that can only hold grain?
The only problem them *might* be if you want to limit the grain to a single type - only wheat, only oat etc..

 

Personally, I think the former is more *playable*, but the latter more *realistic*.

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For me, limiting a granary to a single type (of threshed grain) is the most *believable*.  Since this suggestion has the entire thing made of common materials, building a separate granary for each grain type should be trivial.  The question I have is: should it be walk-in-able (similar to the Cellars mod) or should it not (similar to the bloomery).

Just got an idea!  My googling has informed me that granaries are often built raised off of the ground to keep rats and other vermin out.  Is that something that could be brought into the game?

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1 hour ago, Konlii said:

For me, limiting a granary to a single type (of threshed grain) is the most *believable*.  Since this suggestion has the entire thing made of common materials, building a separate granary for each grain type should be trivial.  The question I have is: should it be walk-in-able (similar to the Cellars mod) or should it not (similar to the bloomery).

Just got an idea!  My googling has informed me that granaries are often built raised off of the ground to keep rats and other vermin out.  Is that something that could be brought into the game?

You could make the bottom layer out of logs in the same arrangement as the pit kiln arrangement

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I was thinking about having an actual rat spawn in and eat your grain if it is not elevated.  The concern with that is the possibility of exploiting it for rat farming... but thinking about it some more, if you have enough grain to waste as rat bait that might actually be a viable way to do it.

Assuming the granary is a multiblock structure that must be built in a certain way, it could perhaps check that there are no blocks touching it (including tangentially at the corners - so no permanent "staircase" blocks) other than support beams on the bottom to be considered "elevated."  If it is not elevated (and the granary contains at least one grain item), there could be a random chance to spawn a rat inside the granary every so many ticks.

You could also remove the ability to store refined grain in chests.  That leaves you with either storing your grain in:

  • clay vessels (not a scalable storage solution, but perfectly adequate for the Stone Age or as local storage in your kitchen)
  • wooden barrels (though larger, provide no decay modifier)
  • a granary (scalable, long-term storage, but vermin must be managed)
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The most important thing for me would be if it completely removed the necessity to cut off decay. 

Yeah, Yeah, I know you can cut decay from a fruit or vegetable, but grain in a granary does not goes bad by percentage. For me it always was removing from the feeling of believable and just grinding.

I cant imagine any other reward from building a granary, than knowing that I will not need to worry about the grain in it at least for a few years.

If is made hard enough to build and requiring some advanced technology I believe it keeps the balance.

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Might be an interesting way to tie a granary mechanic with malting grain.  Maybe have a single layer of grain near a block of water.

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17 minutes ago, theJalden said:

Might be an interesting way to tie a granary mechanic with malting grain.  Maybe have a single layer of grain near a block of water.

and a grain bit with 5% decay as a seed to start the malting

 

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10 hours ago, TonyLiberatto said:

If is made hard enough to build and requiring some advanced technology I believe it keeps the balance.

Granaries have been around since farming became a reality - I do not believe that this should require any "advanced technology".

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Hey? Remember, people, that food in TFC2 would be in integer amount and decay measured in seconds, not percents. And, oh, decay is counted per stack, so people are incentivized to stack up their goods.

For me, a granary would feel like increasing the stack size of grain from 64 to way higher, thus reducing decay rate.

If you cap the granary, then how would you drop the grain from the top? :/ Maybe make the block right behind the hatch to have access to the sky.

No one proposing how much capacity one block has? I propose 4 stacks / block.

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My implication was to have each block have the capacity of a barrel...

Thinking again on this - perhaps, instead of having an empty core, we should have a core of barrels? :)

 

Edit:  With hardwood barrels being better at preserving than softwood ones?

Edited by ChunkHunter
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Why the barrels? I thought what a granary is was a silo for grain storage. 

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The barrels were an idea to form some kind of lining for the granary.

perhaps a lined granary would work better than when not lined?

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On 5/9/2016 at 4:02 AM, Miner239 said:

Why the barrels? I thought what a granary is was a silo for grain storage. 

Some traditional granaries are silos, but others are simply small elevated buildings.  That is why I mentioned previously that it would be useful to lock down which one we are actually talking about.

Silo style like a bloomery?

Or walk-in style like the Cellars mod?

Personally, I think I'm leaning toward the walk-in style just so that my rat-spawning idea has a chance to get implemented.

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If silos are to a useful thing I think the food system overall will need to be harder, but in addition I think grain as a whole might need a revised storage tree. Grain is already one of the most durable food items and being stored in vessels, it lasts a very long time.

To bring proper use to the system, I think first you make grain so it can only be stored in large vessels, sacks, chests, or silos.   The chest is non-portable, and not safe.  However chests do their updating, there is a chance, if there is grain or other food inside, that some of it is eaten by a rat - a rat object appears inside to represent this.   Once the food is all eaten, this flags the chest, and the next time the player opens the chest, rat(s) appear outside of it.  They can get into other chests, and will start eating the food at some interval.  This puts a rat object in the chest, and if the player trys to remove this, it is removed from the player inventory, and spawns a rat in the world.   So, chests are not ideal.  It could additionally be the case than every time a stack of grain is put in a chest that has *any* other items inside, one piece of grain is lost (keep in mind, TFC2 will have discreet 'pieces' of food like Ark, not weighted stacks like TFC1), representing some of the grain falling into cracks and otherwise being lost.

Large vessels are rat proof, and portable (back only), but do not have  decay reduction properties.  Some grain is lost on insertion if any other items are in the vessel.

Sacks are portable (inventory or back, either one) do not fit in other containers, ONLY accept grain, and reduce decay, but are not rat proof.  So if left sitting somewhere, rats can still eat the grain inside.

And finally, the silo is not portable, Only accepts grain, but is rat proof and reduces decay quite a bit. 

So you end up with a variety of options, each with advantages and disadvantages.   I think this would make for a more interactive and interesting system.

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