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theJalden

Implications of removing the crafting bench

12 posts in this topic

I've always felt the the crafting bench is a weird holdout from vanilla minecraft that still hung around in TFC1.  And as that game went on they took more and more away from making it useful.

I'm wondering if it's possible, or practical, to just remove it entirely.  Maybe the crafting square in inventory could be expanded slot by slot as a leveling system.  Or each item would need a more involved way to craft it, as it is with tools, armor, food, alcohol, pottery, thread, torches, and so on.

Any ways, is such an idea even desirable?  I'd really like to hear what everyone thinks.

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No. We expect players to install other mods alongside TFC, and other mods require the crafting grid/bench.

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Yeah, I forgot about other mods.  I want to be a carpenter in TFC dagnabbit

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18 hours ago, Kittychanley said:

No. We expect players to install other mods alongside TFC, and other mods require the crafting grid/bench.

So we definitely need some method of opening a crafting grid for external mod support.  For the sake of discussion, let's say TFC has a specific item/workstation/whatever that brings up a standard crafting grid GUI just for mod compatibility.

But what if nothing within TFC itself uses this?  What if literally everything in "vanilla" TFC is either crafted by interacting with it in the world (like scraping hides in TFC1), through minigames (like the anvil in TFC1), or by using a specific crafting interface (like is being discussed in the Crafting Table 2.0 thread and is already used in TFC1 for alcohol, limewater, and such)?

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The problem with removing all use of the crafting grid completely in TFC means that when players do install other mods, there's going to be a very obvious difference in how you play depending on which mod you are currently focusing on. The mods won't integrate together for a good continuous experience if the way you create things are completely different. If anything, it's just going to result in players whining and begging for some way to make it so that all other mods can use TFC's system too, which is not an easy thing to make possible. It would also mean that there would be a lot more effort involved in installing other mods alongside TFC because there would be all the extra configuration files involved to get the "complete" experience.

If instead we just do some in-world crafting and leave the crafting grid as a generally large component in the entire system, there won't be as big of a disconnect in experience with other mods.

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moreover, it would make tons of work for the devs in coding all these task-specific objects and interfaces.   I don't see any benefit to having a special object for crafting stones into cobble, putting a head on a tool, making a firestarter, making a flint and steel, etc.  I'd say save special interfaces for interesting processes, tech gating, or producing special items. 

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Since most mods already require a fair amount of recipe changes, I see no point in keeping the crafting table if TFC2 ends up not requiring it. Someone can just make a mod to define custom recipes using TFC mechanics for the other mods - which won't be much more effort than rebalancing the mod for TFC either way, and if someone really needs the crafting table they can simply install one of the many mods (CraftingCraft, etc.) which provide just that.

Edited by asie
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2 hours ago, asie said:

Since most mods already require a fair amount of recipe changes, I see no point in keeping the crafting table if TFC2 ends up not requiring it. Someone can just make a mod to define custom recipes using TFC mechanics for the other mods - which won't be much more effort than rebalancing the mod for TFC either way, and if someone really needs the crafting table they can simply install one of the many mods (CraftingCraft, etc.) which provide just that.

It's not even close to being that simple. "Someone" can't just make a mod to add in our recipes unless we explicitly write our recipes in such a way that makes it easy for other mods to hook into it. And even then, relying on a 3rd party mod for compatibility gives the impression of poor coding by the developers. TFC1 is already a perfect example of this. There have been a few attempts at adding Minetweaker compatibility for stuff like anvil and barrel recipes, but none of them are actually implemented properly and only allow for the bare basics of recipes, and not their full functionality. It's exactly the same problem as I stated above:

On 5/9/2016 at 8:17 PM, Kittychanley said:

If anything, it's just going to result in players whining and begging for some way to make it so that all other mods can use TFC's system too, which is not an easy thing to make possible. It would also mean that there would be a lot more effort involved in installing other mods alongside TFC because there would be all the extra configuration files involved to get the "complete" experience.

Might I also add, how is a player supposed to get the custom crafting tables from CraftingCraft if they can't make a vanilla crafting table or any of its vanilla crafting recipes in the first place?

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I'm the only who think that tfc is a mod made to be alone?

Sometimes with NEI, Maps, Optifine, dynamic lights and Hardcore darkness?

And addons, of course.

Edited by Diego il Catanico Jr
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As a developer, the last thing I want is the expectation that the mod is supposed to be played essentially on its own. I say this because then the burden of all game features is only on the developers of that mod. By writing a mod with compatibility in mind, we open up an entire spectrum of different ways to play and different features/mechanics that can be added by just installing a different mod alongside TFC.

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After reading this thread, I've concluded that if players do, indeed, want to remove the crafting table from TFC2 entirely, instead of making it a core mod feature and forcing others to adapt their mods to it (which has been clearly stated above as a bad idea) it would be best if the inverse was done: Keep the crafting grid as a core game feature and create a mod that removes it and creates its own crafting system. It would require jumping through a few hoops trying to get all of the items to register the way you want them to, but it can be done. (By the way, this mod could read the recipes of other mods and run it through a custom method to have it generate a recipe in your own system, which is a possibility too.) I have an idea of how this could work, and if I can find the proper mod thread to post it in, I will do so there. :) 

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