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Srgnoodles

Research

76 posts in this topic

well if by 'in-game' we're referring to 'in-irl', then... well... yes it actually is. Servers are hosted in this dimension to my knowledge...

Don't try to be smart, you know very well what the context is. You're only creating a bad mood

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ooh scratch that, maybe you could chose to "examine" things in the world and gain some incredibly basic information on it by looking at it

I played runescape. I hated this mechanic there and I hate it here.
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I played runescape. I hated this mechanic there and I hate it here.

well do you have a better idea?
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I rather like thaumcraft, and its research system for being different from the norm, so I like this idea.

The quill pen could be a tool like the anvil/hammer and have a durability if you want to stretch the ink/feather supply.

  • First time you research a stone it would say that it was the igneous ex/in etc
  • Second could tell you what types of metals are found in it
  • Third could tell you how many uses a tool made with it have.
I do not know if the whole recipes are locked till it is researched aspect of thaumcraft would go over well with tfc, but even if they aren't locked it would give an ingame knowledge repository.

Players that know all of it already wouldn't need it, but you can't say there isnt a demand for this type of feature, look at the crafting table II(I), recipebook, nei recipe mode type mods out there that take the guesswork (and wiki) unnecessary.

If it weren't for dwarf fortress I would have to look up the wiki every time I found a metal to find out what cassiterite or cinnabar and whatnot was (and if it was magma safe :P).

If the tiered information thing is in, thaumcraft's discovery pages would be nice, and to get next tier you could put them into the paper slot to upgrade it with the material again. If that becomes to block id or item intensive, a simple logbook like the thaumicon book is fine too. Sure it would take longer to do all this stuff than to alt tab and check a wiki, but honestly the wiki hopping has spoiled some of the fun for me on many games.

There is also plenty of people that would enjoy this feature just for the fact it would give them something to 100% completion achievement for, even tropicraft has a book that does much of what this topic suggests. Heck I would like a tropicraft style "I saw it, so I'm going to write it down" basic entry into that book even if it just has the name and a picture of it, just so I could at a glance see what shade of grey the stone types are so I can tell without taking a sample every time :P.

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Im just here to say, I love this idea. No matter how much complication you put into this wonderfull mod, you will NEVER shake me away and lose me. I am here to make minecraft more comlicated. Without complications TFC is nothing to me. I love this idea and all others :).

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I think that instead of looking at something in a table and magically obtaining information (yes, that is in fact what you proposed), there should be some way to measure, examine and test that through a methodical process could reveal what something is used for. For example, if you want to know what metals an ore contains, you can allready melt one in a bloomery with a small amount of charcoal (I actually am only guessing this). You would then get a small amount of metal. However, if you wanted to know how MUCH metal you get per ore, you could bring it over to a researching table and use some equipment like a ceramic-mold-sized pool of water and a graduated cylinder to figure out how much metal it gave you. You could then take notes using a portion of the GUI.

By a process such as this, you could then find and record all knowable information in the game without looking at the wiki or the code.

Edit: an idea on the graduated cylinder I mentioned, instead of it magically having the percentage you would have to somehow have to mark them.

Edit2: as additionals related ideas/examples:

you should be able to use any herb in it's raw form, then be able to figure out how to extract the active ingredients for a more potent medicine. For testing things with possibly negative effects, you should be able to test on animals.

Instead of making plans fixed, you should be able to make things like simple blades that would have a certain effect like the tool you're aiming for. getting closer to the correct plans gets a better result for the use it's intended for. It would work by counting the amount of spots in common and then subtracting the excess. The defect should cause larger quality problems in armor. Because this would make it hard to recognize plans-they wouldn't have a set name-you should then be able to name plans.

Tool making should not be so easy. Instead of being given set rules, the rules should be less strait-forward and more subtle, although I don't know how you could do it.

Any future enchanting system should be able to figured out in similar ways.

:o Idea spout!!!!

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Lotsa Stuff

the thing is that my idea wouldnt be "you have to research things to use them" it would be more of "research thing so that you as the player learn more about them not steve"

i guess its less research and more studying the object to glean further knowledge about it

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the thing is that my idea wouldnt be "you have to research things to use them" it would be more of "research thing so that you as the player learn more about them not steve"

i guess its less research and more studying the object to glean further knowledge about it

Um.

uh.

um.

uh.

I wasn't suggesting that you have to research stuff to use it.

By a process such as this, you could then find and record all knowable information in the game without looking at the wiki or the code.

This might have gotten lost in there somewhere.

And really,

Im just here to say, I love this idea. No matter how much complication you put into this wonderfull mod, you will NEVER shake me away and lose me. I am here to make minecraft more comlicated. Without complications TFC is nothing to me. I love this idea and all others :).

Complications are awesome.
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well if by 'in-game' we're referring to 'in-irl', then... well... yes it actually is. Servers are hosted in this dimension to my knowledge...

>_> EternalUndeath, you know you're a smart mouth a lot, right?

In TerraFirmaCraft the wiki is in no way a part of the game.

In real life the wiki is definitively a part of life, and furthermore requires a material object to access and was made from the ground up by people.

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And why couldn't it become part of the game we could add a ton of random knowledge and then some useful ones that could give hints as to recipes, uses, etc. This would make the game into far more than what it was, we are learning, we become Steve. It becomes more than just a game but an extension of our imagination. We aren't just the puppeteer, we aren't just the controller, we are the game. That is what Minecraft and TFC were made for.

Edit: Anyone else actually read the credits?

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the thing is that my idea wouldnt be "you have to research things to use them" it would be more of "research thing so that you as the player learn more about them not steve"

i guess its less research and more studying the object to glean further knowledge about it

What he is suggesting isn't "you have to research things to use them," but "you can reasonably figure out how things work," and the way to do that is by experimentation, graduated cylinders, breaking rocks on/next to a research table, placing the table next to a firepit, or bloomery, next to a anvil, or scripting table, and honestly screw with the head you are making, until it makes a good pick, or a bad hoe.

But I really draw the line at drawing plans, because you want to make the tool, not spend half an hour perfecting it, let alone getting close to making one.

I'd rather have the research table next to the anvil and make it open up an 'advanced gui,' and call that your research, but that is a huge if.

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research? add a research system as a tutorial. you should need a certain number of bookcases to learn how to progress the game. BAM solved the issue of learning how to play.

or hell, add it to the system suggested in the thread.

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ok ok, sorry i was gone for a while i was on vacation

so, to make this clear for everyone, what im trying to suggest is less of a research system now that i really think on it,

its more of a "studying" system where you study an item or block to learn more about it

you can be perfectly well off without studying anyhting, it would just give you some basic info the first time and more detailed info the more you study it. its just so new players can figure out what they're supposed to be doing with different things.

say you research a birch log/sapling three times or so, you get a sheet saying that it grows in ______ biomes, burns for ___ length of time, is ___ hard to split and burns at ____ temperature

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Agree with the above. +1

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Why create a system to simulate studying when you could actually do it? If you found birch then you know in what biome it was in, you can check its burning temperature and length by actually burning it and its splitting hardness by splitting it. Besides if this system was implemented wouldn’t it just mean that Steve would just be doing those in the background while you pressed a button?

What I think we need is a convenient way to store and access this information in game. I was thinking an observation book where there would be templates for each type of items (stone, ore, tree, fruit tree, etc) with relevant fields for each type. The first time you acquire an item an entry will automatically (preferably automatically, it would be tedious otherwise :unsure: ) be created with the information Steve observed (it grew in this biome, it was found in this type of rock, it was crafted with this recipe, etc).

Then any further property would be written when Steve has a chance to observe then.(having a gui open while an ore melts would update the ores melting temperature, what metals the ore contains and potentially create a new entry for the metals.)

The book would be viewable by pressing a hotkey and would open to a specific page if the player is moused over an item (kind of like that crafting guild mod).

btw i think that something explaining the basic mechanics would be much more beneficial for new players. After all how are they supposed to study a birch if they can’t make an axe? :P

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Two problems with that and a small comment, If we write things down we can't prevent an accident in the first place, we experiment small scale to conserve resources and better control outcomes. We have the game write something down every time you do something that would take a ton of effort both coding and for your computer if it was just checked when you were in this experimenting table then it would make things far simpler with the same outcomes. If you want to remember something else write it in a book. Oh, and I had suggested that different tools be used to experiment about different things this would add depth, if you can think of anything else I would be glad to hear it.

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I would have to disagree with you. What do you mean an accident? Oups I accidently burnt my willow when I could have used it for something more useful? Also I’m pretty sure that scientists 400 years ago couldn’t find all the biomes a tree can grown in just by studying a sample.

As for the coding par it’s not as complicated as you think. 1 function for when you cut down a tree, 1 function for when you spilt a log, and 1 or 2 functions when you burn a log, 10 lines of code per function tops and you got trees covered. As for lag and cpu usage it’s also not that bad. It’s kind of like achievements. They check for the fire time you acquire: wood, diamond, fish, pickaxe, sword, etc.. I’m not saying it’s not going to have any effect whatsoever but if the programmers can make checks for cave-ins each time some 1 breaks a stone and check for falling dirt every time some 1 jumps on dirt without the game lagging then i think they can do this. In fact it think my proposal would add less to the game in terms of lines of code as yours since mine would not require the addition of new blocks and items(hundreds of page items with a few damage values each or 1 page item with hundreds of damage values). also I don’t know if the devs you’d be able to link the pages to the object they are describing, if they can’t they would need to manually change the info on the pages each time they change something.

Now on to tools. Adding tools to the game would be awesome. One example is having a thermometer would be required to find the ambient temperature instead of it just being given to us. But there’s just one thing that might be a problem and it’s what Bioxx said about the wiki :

“Do not add raw numbers that are used in the code behind the scenes. I do not want TerraFirmaCraft to be treated as a math game where everyone min/maxes and only ever follows one route. If you wish to play that way then good for you, but adding raw numbers to the wiki will affect the way that everyone else plays the game as well. You cannot un-see the numbers once they've been seen. Please respect this rule.â€

Which mean that the tools would only be able to give approximate results which would not make sense to me.

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This is all grand for writing down something you have done but what about everything you haven't done isn't that what research and experiments are for my goal with my system is allow an in-game resource for people to learn things they didn't know like plans for instance. Many things I would have no idea about unless I checked the wiki I'm not talking about burning temps and so forth, I'm talking about whole items that I had no idea about. When things are researched it would basically just give little hints like "This metal is very malleable." or something else direct like "I bet this could be used to make a bricks."

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I don't like this idea. It's much more engaging to figure this kind of thing out through in-game experimentation that a magical research table.

Try smelting your strange ore. Hitting it with a hammer. Crafting it. Etc.

In all honesty, some parts of the game are obscure (Plans and Knapping come to mind). Maybe in that case, I would like a 'recipe book' of some sort, but nowhere else.

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The problem with that is that some things aren't possible to figure out by messing around, like you, I'm thinking about the plans in particular but there have been plenty of other things that I didn't know so what do I go look on the wiki or watch a video. This will be those resources essentially, just in-game and it forces you to work and think. Some people will avoid this but that is not the point some of want to do all of that in-game.

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Honestly i would have liked tfc to be playable without outside information. But that’s just not going to happened. Like Azdoine said there’s no way someone will just figure out how knapping works and that’s step number 2 of starting up after punching leaves and stone. Then there’s how to create the firepit, the charcoal pit, the forge, etc. Steve would need to spawn with a starting guide. But that’s not going to happened anytime soon either. They have so many feature waiting to be implemented I doubt making the game more noob friendly even made it to their priority list.

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Combined with achievements to encourage people to do things and then admittedly probably a small tutorial that would need coding and this research table we would never need outside resources again will they be used, yes, but now we have a choice. I agree though this probably isn't very high on the priority list.

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Combined with achievements to encourage people to do things and then admittedly probably a small tutorial that would need coding and this research table we would never need outside resources again will they be used, yes, but now we have a choice. I agree though this probably isn't very high on the priority list.

honestly I'm anti-tutorial. If you really have that much trouble with the basic mechanics, then looking it up wouldn't run amiss. And if you don't have that much trouble with it, then you have no need of outside information

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I find it kind of regrettable that the game is not playable without outside information but at the same time this is how the vast majority of the minecraft community operates so any player new to tfc should know to look thinks up on the wiki. After all even vanilla minecraft is pretty much unplayable without outside information (or a friendly and very patient community)

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I don't like this idea. It's much more engaging to figure this kind of thing out through in-game experimentation that a magical research table.

Try smelting your strange ore. Hitting it with a hammer. Crafting it. Etc.

In all honesty, some parts of the game are obscure (Plans and Knapping come to mind). Maybe in that case, I would like a 'recipe book' of some sort, but nowhere else.

well if you dont like it then just dont use it if it ever gets implemented

i want this reaserch thing to be entirely optional so you dont HAVE to research anything in order to move on

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