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Gimpster

Nomadisim vs Settlement

10 posts in this topic

I remember reading in a thread that TFC was never intended to be a game where one puts down roots and survives in place.  That it was intended for the player to move around to find the different elements needed to survive and advance through the tiers of resources.  On the surface I understand this, but most of my own attempts at playing TFC1 and the Let's Plays I have watched, find the player locating a suitable location and settling down.  They then explore out from this central permanent settlement to locate and obtain the resources needed, counter to the explained intended style of play.

I think one of the reasons for this is that while TFC adds a lot of interesting complexity to the base game, that complexity also comes with a lot of needed infrastructure which is not very transportable.  Having to tear down and rebuild ones infrastructure or recreate it at a new location when one needs to move to locate and obtain new resources is not very fun game play.  It takes a lot of time and effort to setup one needed infrastructure.  I am interested how this is going to be addressed in TFC2 with its new design utilizing island chains each with only a small subset of resources.  It is either going to mean a lot more travel to find resources to advance or a lot of base / camp building.  How will the need to move be balanced against the need for the activities to be fun?

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I actually find myself enjoying setting up permanent settlements with farming and such, then creating little road networks to the various mines that I need to advance in tiers. Maybe it's just the city-builder in me, but it's one of the more enjoyable features that this mod has (slow-growing agricultural things, animals crops etc, slow to build metal structures, that kind of thing.) Seems very group-oriented for townbuilding, but hermiting is also a viable playstyle.

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I am a bit late to the show, but here to relate some different play styles I have played and the successes and failures of the different styles. Did a community based world which worked out great. Everyone managed the crops and food storage when they were on so that no one starved. The settlement was located pretty far north so we only had a brief window to grow crops, and then the rest of the year everyone was going out and bringing various metals and woods back. Having others chip in and help made mining go quicker and less boring. It cut down on the amount of animals that we needed to take care of everyone. The only thing that I wished in that one was for self driving boats. There were set ports that we'd travel to for collecting materials and some of the boat paths such as going to the far south for charcoal took a good half hour to complete. If you could do the same thing with roads, that would have also been awesome. We also had people who were unhappy with the main city and wanted to branch off but the fear was it would take more server resources and could lead to the main city missing it's growing season and not having enough food, though that got solved with the cellars mod. Eventually that place stagnated and people stopped showing.

The other way I've played is everyone spreads out. People stayed around the equator and was constantly starving because when they logged back on their crops were all dead. Those who didn't starve had a mountain nearby that they collected snow from and stayed on long enough to harvest one set of crops each time. There was a strict no griefing policy in place which meant you could not take or use anything anyone else had built or gathered including crops. This meant there were tons of little ghost shacks with dead crops out in front of them. Around spawn there were no animals or good places to grow crops. Your first time investment on the server had to be enough to get away from spawn without dying, finding the resources to build a boat and sail away to a place with no signs of other players. Finding resources in some area was tough and littered with empty mines. Places with resources were really far away and not a soul in sight. Not many were willing to share as the closer to spawn you got the more scarcity there was with some of the older places having ingots of various metals that no one dared to touch.

Both of these places had advantages and disadvantages, some of which were policy and others were game design. It would be nice if TF2 addressed what it could without compromising the game play which I thoroughly enjoyed. 

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I always play as a nomad, at least until steel tech. It really helps to have one or more donkeys.

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I think Nomadism should be emphasized in the newer version somehow. I can't think of how just yet but when I do I'll post some ideas either here or in the Suggestions forum. I'd also like to see larger continents w/ lakes that have archipelagos out in the oceans, which would help gear TFC2 for multiplayer, as currently there isn't too much incentive to want to coop/war w/ other players.

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On 1/12/2016 at 0:02 AM, MonzterAssassin said:

currently there isn't too much incentive to want to coop/war w/ other players.

That's what i had thought!

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On 12/1/2016 at 5:02 PM, MonzterAssassin said:

I think Nomadism should be emphasized in the newer version somehow. I can't think of how just yet but when I do I'll post some ideas either here or in the Suggestions forum. I'd also like to see larger continents w/ lakes that have archipelagos out in the oceans, which would help gear TFC2 for multiplayer, as currently there isn't too much incentive to want to coop/war w/ other players.

So, my current understanding of TFC2 is that it will already encourage nomadism, due to the progressive metal island hopping.    This however is probably not what you're looking for as far as larger continents (the island will be around 4k across at most).  You may want to check this post I made awhile back, summarizing some of the relevant threads, with posts by the devs.  Check out those threads.   You'll have a much clearer picture of where TFC2 is headed - or at least, the most recent thoughts the devs have expressed publicly on these things, as long as about a year and half ago.

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On 12/6/2016 at 8:06 PM, Darmo said:

So, my current understanding of TFC2 is that it will already encourage nomadism, due to the progressive metal island hopping.    This however is probably not what you're looking for as far as larger continents (the island will be around 4k across at most).  You may want to check this post I made awhile back, summarizing some of the relevant threads, with posts by the devs.  Check out those threads.   You'll have a much clearer picture of where TFC2 is headed - or at least, the most recent thoughts the devs have expressed publicly on these things, as long as about a year and half ago.

Thanks for the link and yeah I get that it encourages nomadism but I'd be happy to write them up an algorithm for land mass generation that makes small islands or archipelagos/reefs which spawn around a more centralized land mass. [Edit] ** I feel that spawning a player out in the far reaches of the archipelagos would encourage island hopping due to possible rarity in resource availability. **

Though imo if TFC2 is to succeed I think they should try to reach out to other community developers, such as a collaboration with a guy named TyronX. He wrote a mod called VintageCraft which was a beautiful, yet different, take on TFC.

Edited by MonzterAssassin
Forgot to add explanation for my idea hehe
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Ya, as far as each 4k square area having different forms of generation, I do think that's a good idea.  Way back, Bioxx kind of suggested this might be the case, or at least that some regions would have no island and just be open ocean.  Personally I think it would be great if they at least had a small island or archapeligo.  Some people really like controlling an entire island.  As far as help coding, Bioxx has expressed his opinion on that in the past - he doesn't seem wild about the idea.  Though I don't know what qualifies as a 'pull request', being not a coder myself, and of course opinions can change.  I kind of doubt if TyronX would be interested, given that he's apparently making his own game now, separate from minecraft.  TFC would be direct competition with his game.

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The terrain generation is already pretty good. I can confirm that the islands are indeed different with varying height and size. Maybe a little too many tunnels and ravines at least for my taste. Some Islands are rather boring, while others have nice valleys and water falls. Rivers that actually flow downhill. The islands have different trees and I will assume later different animals. Right now I don't think there's enough animals for the different environments but that's just me. The tops of the palm trees look pretty neat. Being unfinished and a continuing part of Bioxx's creative process I'm sure it will change a few times before the final product. I am really digging the hexes for the most part. The only parts I would change on the hexes is the ocean bottom generation and some smoothing on the land. Bioxx has already said he will not be doing the smoothing but has invited people to code it themselves if they want it. I'm sure it'll happen later when it's more stable. TyronX has put a lot of time into making realistic terrain generation but Bioxx has also put a lot thought into balancing terrain load speed with believable terrain. Hence the hexes, size of the hexes, and size of the islands.

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