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Two paths(More tech or more magic)

4 posts in this topic

So when I hear Island progression it made me really excited! It lends it's self well to a pirate-ish theme. That being said this quote is the inspiration for this post.

Gibbs: So the Pearl. Any idea on how to get her out?

Jack Sparrow: We shall need a crossbow, an hourglass, three goats, one of us must learn to play the trumpet, whilst the other one goes like this.

Gibbs: I know a man with a goat.

Jack Sparrow: Good. I can go like this.

I think it would be awesome for two paths to develop. First everyone starts the same. Sticks and rocks. As people become more settled after the basics of food, water, shelter they now have time to sit and stare into the fire getting ideas. Some chop down trees and dig into the earth to pull out precious metals which through heat and tools shape armor and weapons. They build rails for transportation of goods, they construct wind or river powered mills. They sow seed and raise crops which they store in silos for when winter hits. Eventually they build ships and sail to other lands to do the same. 

Then there is the second set of people. They stare into the fire and eat herbs that given them visions. They carefully go out and collect odd and random things. A bone from a chicken, tooth of a bear, skull of a human skeleton, wax from bees, and wool of a goat. They construct totems in precise arrangements and throw things into the fire while wearing ceremonial robes made from bear leather and goat wool. Just as day breaks the ceremony completes and enchants the head band on the altar with the ability to breath longer underwater. They then put on the head band and go to a cliff, they pick up a heavy rock and jump off the cliff with the rock in their hands. They land in the water below and the rock makes them sink fast. They get to the bottom and let the rock go. They pull out a knife and gather an oyster or two before swimming back up to the surface. They then Gather a bunch more stuff. Certain types of stone which they carve on the beach. After gathering tons of pearls they finally find a black one. Then they spend weeks upon weeks finishing the altar on the beach. While they toil they preform more ceremonies strengthening their armor made of bones and leather with powerful enchantments and infusions. When all is ready they do a ceremony there on the beach under a full moon. They sacrifice a rare white crab they fished out of the ocean, that has been cooked in a stew made from roots found in a cave, liver of a deer, a flower that only blooms at midnight on the north side of the mountain, and the hair of a rabbit. A giant turtle gets summoned that allows them to travel to another land where there will be stronger animals to kills, different items to collect, new ceremonies to discover and preform. 

So that's the pitch. Now to the break down. So the first set of people, well call Sam, would work on skills such as prospecting, smiting, wood carving, and agriculture. The second set, we'll call Conan, would work on cooking/brewing, butchering, stone carving/gem cutting, and fabrics. Sam would strengthen his weapons and armor through different alloys, ores, and smiting practices. Conan would do it through different bones\shells, hides, carvings, and enchantments. Sam gathers ore, processes it, and shapes it. Conan gathers various stuff, processes and carves it, then assembles it. Sam builds forges, bloomeries, blast furnaces, and docks. Conan builds various altars and temples in fairly precise formations and locations. Sam builds boats using wood, and metal, and pays his "crew" with each crossing. Conan summons his mount with a sacrifice of rare things he's gathered. Sam has swords, axes, and metal spears. Conan has toothed blades,  spiked clubs, and bone tipped spears. Sam has to sharpen his weapons over time. Conan reapplies poisons on his. 

So far pretty even, now how they differ. Conan gets his food while gathering resources, risking dangerous mobs. Sam risks nothing with his crop fields and but does rick cave in when mining. Conan looks up in the mountains, in caves, and all around for herbs. Conan fishes and dives. Sam cuts wood, digs, and manages crops. Now it does benefit Conan to have a small herb garden and it benefits Sam to raise some animals, but they can trade. Conan could use precious metals and gems for boosting his stuff. Sam could use special leathers and ivory for his stuff.

It all is fairly balance-able while offering two unique styles of play that go well together. What stops Sam and Conan from crossing over. Conan would need to work his ways up the metal tree while developing new skills. Sam would need to develop the skills to get the drops he needs. So Sam could spend time fishing but that doesn't help him progress, and Conan could smith, but that doesn't help him with his progression either. 

Can't wait to get some feed back.




Edited by Stroam

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Some good detailed thoughts there.  It looks like you're kind of trying to have two separate progression paths there.  First I'll drop a couple links to a couple old posts I made on a similar vein.  One regarding Exclusivity of Trades, the other Stat Points and Trade Friction.  They might be relevant.  Here's a post regarding trades, and here is what I think is the main post regarding Magic.  I'm not suggesting you should have posted in these threads.  I just thought you might be interested in the things discussed in them (if you haven't already seen them).  There's been some other good posts especially regarding skills/professions, but this is what I could find quickly.

It sounds like your idea is kind of for a more 'civilized' tech path, and then a more shamanistic/druidic path.  I'm very into that.  And it also sounds like you're advocating for some separation, so that one player cannot simultaneously pursue both paths.  I think This would enhance the replay-ability of the mod, and make SMP more fun, so that not everyone ends up basically the same.  I think a parallel system of weapons and armor focused on bone, hides, chitin, and scales, would be great for the more shamanic path.   I think at the most basic level, the game should have these two trades.  Though as mentioned in the other thread(s), I think there could be more.  The next level might be to have a civilized path which has smithing and chemist/engineer sub-paths, while the magic path then has druidic vs dark magic sub-paths.  A lot of ideas are mooted in those other threads.

As to your specific ideas, I don't know if your examples were meant to be specific, or were just sort of broad-brush to give an idea of your vision.  It seems to me like white crabs and north face flowers may be a bit more specific than the devs want to get, but I don't know.  And 'months' to complete an altar is probably a bit much, unless it's simply a matter of finding the right components taking awhile.

I think a large infusion of plants and herbs, along with the already in progress animals, combined with mined minerals, could be the main ingredient sources for both paths.  And I do like the idea of moon cycles playing into the magic.   I do admit that a druid mining does seem a bit out of place.  But I think the underground component of the game is such a huge part of it, that it would be a shame to exclude one path entirely from it.  There could be underground plants and mushrooms though perhaps, to draw druids underground.  And there's the notion of underground crystals, which I floated in the Magic thread.  My problem is I come from a heavy Dungeons and Dragons background.  So my magic ideas are heavily colored by this.  I enjoy seeing other peoples' takes on magic, from a non-D&D background, which it seem like maybe you are. 

In summary, I agree with having two separate mutually exclusive paths, one magic, the other not, and I like the idea of a very naturalistic magic. 



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I don't see where I mentioned the more shamanistic mining, but to clarify I meant finding certain underground fauna like you mentioned. Some of it like the crab and flower is me just painting a picture with broad brush strokes to fuel the imagination and not meant to be actually implemented. As for the altar I do mean finding the components taking a long while through rare drops and crafting. 

You could pursue both paths at the same time. It would take a lot of time but definitely could. I also don't want a person going down one path to be blacklisted from the other. The reason for this is in sp you don't have anyone else helping you out. Even on mp servers what if the blacksmith stops getting on and there is no other black smith? I want people to be able to do it all if need be but to have it much easier if they don't have to and only slightly gimped if they don't want to. I also think two paths is plenty for the core of the game and if mod makers want to add specialization they can.  

Trades I want to help the paths enhance each other but I definitely don't want progression to depend on them at all. So the trade is beneficial and not mandatory. 

The only limiting factor is I think enchantments possible should be based on material, that way you need better materials to get better enchantments. It can also be a barrier that stops metal stuff from being enchant-able. 

I actually use to DM DnD and would come up with all sorts of campaigns, mechanics, custom classes, skills, and abilities. I actually had to in order to prevent munchkins. I still play call of Cuthulu. I've played so many games that it's actually hard to for me to find new mechanics and spins. I've quickly scanned through your what you've linked and will comment on what I've got input for.


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Ok, I get where you're coming from now.  The druid/shaman mining wasn't you, that's me from another thread.  The idea wasn't necessarily blacklisting, but I see you replied to the stat point/trade friction thread, so I'll address that there.


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