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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
theJalden

Implications of removing the crafting bench

12 posts in this topic

I've always felt the the crafting bench is a weird holdout from vanilla minecraft that still hung around in TFC1.  And as that game went on they took more and more away from making it useful.

I'm wondering if it's possible, or practical, to just remove it entirely.  Maybe the crafting square in inventory could be expanded slot by slot as a leveling system.  Or each item would need a more involved way to craft it, as it is with tools, armor, food, alcohol, pottery, thread, torches, and so on.

Any ways, is such an idea even desirable?  I'd really like to hear what everyone thinks.

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No. We expect players to install other mods alongside TFC, and other mods require the crafting grid/bench.

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Yeah, I forgot about other mods.  I want to be a carpenter in TFC dagnabbit

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18 hours ago, Kittychanley said:

No. We expect players to install other mods alongside TFC, and other mods require the crafting grid/bench.

So we definitely need some method of opening a crafting grid for external mod support.  For the sake of discussion, let's say TFC has a specific item/workstation/whatever that brings up a standard crafting grid GUI just for mod compatibility.

But what if nothing within TFC itself uses this?  What if literally everything in "vanilla" TFC is either crafted by interacting with it in the world (like scraping hides in TFC1), through minigames (like the anvil in TFC1), or by using a specific crafting interface (like is being discussed in the Crafting Table 2.0 thread and is already used in TFC1 for alcohol, limewater, and such)?

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The problem with removing all use of the crafting grid completely in TFC means that when players do install other mods, there's going to be a very obvious difference in how you play depending on which mod you are currently focusing on. The mods won't integrate together for a good continuous experience if the way you create things are completely different. If anything, it's just going to result in players whining and begging for some way to make it so that all other mods can use TFC's system too, which is not an easy thing to make possible. It would also mean that there would be a lot more effort involved in installing other mods alongside TFC because there would be all the extra configuration files involved to get the "complete" experience.

If instead we just do some in-world crafting and leave the crafting grid as a generally large component in the entire system, there won't be as big of a disconnect in experience with other mods.

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moreover, it would make tons of work for the devs in coding all these task-specific objects and interfaces.   I don't see any benefit to having a special object for crafting stones into cobble, putting a head on a tool, making a firestarter, making a flint and steel, etc.  I'd say save special interfaces for interesting processes, tech gating, or producing special items. 

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Since most mods already require a fair amount of recipe changes, I see no point in keeping the crafting table if TFC2 ends up not requiring it. Someone can just make a mod to define custom recipes using TFC mechanics for the other mods - which won't be much more effort than rebalancing the mod for TFC either way, and if someone really needs the crafting table they can simply install one of the many mods (CraftingCraft, etc.) which provide just that.

Edited by asie
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2 hours ago, asie said:

Since most mods already require a fair amount of recipe changes, I see no point in keeping the crafting table if TFC2 ends up not requiring it. Someone can just make a mod to define custom recipes using TFC mechanics for the other mods - which won't be much more effort than rebalancing the mod for TFC either way, and if someone really needs the crafting table they can simply install one of the many mods (CraftingCraft, etc.) which provide just that.

It's not even close to being that simple. "Someone" can't just make a mod to add in our recipes unless we explicitly write our recipes in such a way that makes it easy for other mods to hook into it. And even then, relying on a 3rd party mod for compatibility gives the impression of poor coding by the developers. TFC1 is already a perfect example of this. There have been a few attempts at adding Minetweaker compatibility for stuff like anvil and barrel recipes, but none of them are actually implemented properly and only allow for the bare basics of recipes, and not their full functionality. It's exactly the same problem as I stated above:

On 5/9/2016 at 8:17 PM, Kittychanley said:

If anything, it's just going to result in players whining and begging for some way to make it so that all other mods can use TFC's system too, which is not an easy thing to make possible. It would also mean that there would be a lot more effort involved in installing other mods alongside TFC because there would be all the extra configuration files involved to get the "complete" experience.

Might I also add, how is a player supposed to get the custom crafting tables from CraftingCraft if they can't make a vanilla crafting table or any of its vanilla crafting recipes in the first place?

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I'm the only who think that tfc is a mod made to be alone?

Sometimes with NEI, Maps, Optifine, dynamic lights and Hardcore darkness?

And addons, of course.

Edited by Diego il Catanico Jr
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As a developer, the last thing I want is the expectation that the mod is supposed to be played essentially on its own. I say this because then the burden of all game features is only on the developers of that mod. By writing a mod with compatibility in mind, we open up an entire spectrum of different ways to play and different features/mechanics that can be added by just installing a different mod alongside TFC.

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After reading this thread, I've concluded that if players do, indeed, want to remove the crafting table from TFC2 entirely, instead of making it a core mod feature and forcing others to adapt their mods to it (which has been clearly stated above as a bad idea) it would be best if the inverse was done: Keep the crafting grid as a core game feature and create a mod that removes it and creates its own crafting system. It would require jumping through a few hoops trying to get all of the items to register the way you want them to, but it can be done. (By the way, this mod could read the recipes of other mods and run it through a custom method to have it generate a recipe in your own system, which is a possibility too.) I have an idea of how this could work, and if I can find the proper mod thread to post it in, I will do so there. :) 

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