Capacity Thoughts

[Draco18s 46]

So I'm still in the stone age (having a little trouble with the "tap a hammer on a rock to get your first anvil GUI" as it isn't working as expected) but it occurred to me late last night that....

I can carry around 144 logs without being encumbered.

I can build a chest to store 36 in a single tile

Or I can stack them in a wood pile and fit 16

And this felt backwards.

[BloodravenD 7]

I think bioxxx or someone stated that player inventory will be fixed eventually, just that they wanted to push the agriculture out there first, then I think they're gonna work on construction and new biome generation and layout.

[Jed1314 420]

There are a lot of issues that Bioxx and Dunk are working on to fix. I agree that this is a serious issue, but it will be fixed. Also, I believe that log piles are capable of taking 32 logs

[Draco18s 46]

I think bioxxx or someone stated that player inventory will be fixed eventually, just that they wanted to push the agriculture out there first, then I think they're gonna work on construction and new biome generation and layout.

Neat. Part of the agriculture thing should be seed stacking. It may have been Just My Luck to pick up seven different kinds of seeds, but I honestly haven't seen seeds stack at all. I have, of course, tried planting them, but I have a black thumb, apparently.

There are a lot of issues that Bioxx and Dunk are working on to fix. I agree that this is a serious issue, but it will be fixed. Also, I believe that log piles are capable of taking 32 logs

Nope it's 16. I made several last night. 4 logs in each of 4 inventory slots.

[Jed1314 420]

Neat. Part of the agriculture thing should be seed stacking. It may have been Just My Luck to pick up seven different kinds of seeds, but I honestly haven't seen seeds stack at all. I have, of course, tried planting them, but I have a black thumb, apparently.

Nope it's 16. I made several last night. 4 logs in each of 4 inventory slots.

Damn .. I was sure it was 8 per slot now after logs were changed to stack higher :S

[Sushiy (aka Kwink007) 103]

it should just be changed to stacks of 4 in the inventory as well...

[Draco18s 46]

it should just be changed to stacks of 4 in the inventory as well...

Stacks of 4 was how I estimated how many I could carry myself. XD

I forgot they stacked higher there (goes to what, 16?)

[Chezzik 22]

In your inventory, and in chests, they stack to 12. In log piles, they stack to 4, but you can have up to 4 stacks of 4 per log pile.

As someone who started playing with version 47f, this seems completely natural. When I watch videos of people playing earlier versions, it just blows my mind!

[Draco18s 46]

In your inventory, and in chests, they stack to 12. In log piles, they stack to 4, but you can have up to 4 stacks of 4 per log pile.

So max inventory capacity: 432

Single chest: 108

Single log pile: 16

And this does not seem weird? A log pile has the exact same "world volume" as a chest.

(Keep in mind that I've played Unreal World where 3 logs are sufficient to encumber you into being unable to move and live on a farm where a six foot section of a single tree requries two people to move)

I know the mod isn't trying to be realistic but there is some level of believability that needs to be maintained. In vanilla minecraft I accept that a chest has the same storage capacity as my inventory beacuse it falls on the same, rough, world scale (a player takes up 2 blocks, a chest takes up 1 and holds a little less, but doesn't have to deal with all that bothersome meat).

So when a mod reduces a chest's capacity and doesn't reduce the player's backpack, things get weird. Follow that up with other container objects that hold very specific items holding less than a generic hold-everything chest, and it gets even weirder.

[Chezzik 22]

Seem weird? No.

I can completely cut down a Kapok tree in 1.5 seconds, without the use of winches or guidelines. So, I already know that the focus is more on gameplay balance than on mimicking reality.

And, I don't want it to change. Given the choice of a mod that mimics reality but never gets played, or a mod that's fun, I'd always take the latter. If I want to learn about logging, I'll watch "American Loggers" on discovery channel, over playing a voxel based game with trees with square cross-sections.

[Draco18s 46]

I can completely cut down a Kapok tree in 1.5 seconds, without the use of winches or guidelines. So, I already know that the focus is more on gameplay balance than on mimicking reality.

And, I don't want it to change. Given the choice of a mod that mimics reality but never gets played, or a mod that's fun, I'd always take the latter. If I want to learn about logging, I'll watch "American Loggers" on discovery channel, over playing a voxel based game with trees with square cross-sections.

You missed my point. I'm not asking for realism. I'm asking for believability. Right now I can't suspend my disbelief enough in order to properly enjoy the game. I don't know why a pile of logs fits only 16 when I can shove them into an unorganized chest and still have room for another 7 different items.

And if we were so focused on gameplay over realism, would we have knapping? Knapping is great...the first time. After the fifth time it becomes tedius and an impediment to fun.

You don't want to learn about logging, but metallurgy is fair game?

[Chezzik 22]

The chest is a usually a better storage method than log piles, but I still use log piles occasionally because I don't want to take the time to craft a workbench, and then craft a number of chests. It's easier to just make log piles.

I'm all for mimicking reality when it can be done in a way that is fun to play. I do think that most of the metallurgy stuff is fun, with the exception of the useless ore that I get. Logging could be made realistic and more fun at the same time, but it would take a lot of work (just as making metallurgy fun and realistic took a lot of work).

The suggestion here, to undo the stack size change (go back to 4 instead of 12) is a very easy change, but it's not a good solution, in my opinion. It would be more realistic, but would make the game more tedious.

As you mentioned, knapping is tedious. But, when you get to the bronze age, and replace all your stone tools with bronze, you feel good that you will never need to use the knapping interface again. You feel like you have made a serious advancement. When a particular skill feels fun at first, but then becomes tedious, and eventually unnecessary, that's often the sign of good game design. So, I'm willing to live with it.

Edited 28 Aug 2012 by Chezzik

[Draco18s 46]

The suggestion here, to undo the stack size change (go back to 4 instead of 12) is a very easy change, but it's not a good solution, in my opinion. It would be more realistic, but would make the game more tedious.

Actually what I'd like to see is the player inventory reduced to the hot bar + 9. That is, only one extra row, not the three we have. As much as I like to run around carrying five tools, a crafting table, three stacks of wood, 2 kinds of seeds, four piles of dirt, three stacks of ore, two turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree...it bothers me that I can when there's a strict enforcement on the finicky details of metal working.

As for chest vs. log pile I recognize that log piles take no resources to make (so a balance thing to consider) whereas a chest is fairly resource intensive.*

So I could be fairly easily convinced to leave those two alone. Maybe doubling the log pile capacity (holding 32) which would make it attractive to moderate amounts of wood, leaving chests for other items (a chest could still hold 108, at the cost of 8 if you were short on volumetric space). That'd make log piles 30% as space efficient as a chest, which is reasonable given the material cost of the chest.

*Off the cuff math: a tree drops 1, 2? log per log-block. Each of these makes 4 whatever-they're-called, which in turn makes 1 plank-block, and 8 of those make a chest. Wow, whole trees go into making chests.

[Chezzik 22]

Actually what I'd like to see is the player inventory reduced to the hot bar + 9. That is, only one extra row, not the three we have.

I don't like this, unless there's a way around it. I've suggested mule carts before as a way to carry increased capacity. If we have some type of cart for increasing carrying capacity, then I'd be ok with the player capacity being lowered.

*Off the cuff math: a tree drops 1, 2? log per log-block. Each of these makes 4 whatever-they're-called, which in turn makes 1 plank-block, and 8 of those make a chest. Wow, whole trees go into making chests.

Your math is wrong, at least since version 47. Chests and doors can be made now with planks, instead of plank blocks. So, they're actually fairly cheap to make. The crafting table still needs to be made with plank blocks, and chests can be made with plank-blocks, if you just feel like wasting wood.

[Draco18s 46]

I don't like this, unless there's a way around it. I've suggested mule carts before as a way to carry increased capacity. If we have some type of cart for increasing carrying capacity, then I'd be ok with the player capacity being lowered.

I have no issue with that. Back packs, mules, carts. All good.

Your math is wrong, at least since version 47. Chests and doors can be made now with planks, instead of plank blocks. So, they're actually fairly cheap to make. The crafting table still needs to be made with plank blocks, and chests can be made with plank-blocks, if you just feel like wasting wood.

WELL HEY. How about that. That's what I get for going "I know how to make chests" and not consulting the wiki (when the wiki fails to mention things like "how to make your first metal tool" in sufficient any detail outside of a quickstart guide, and even inside the guide it's sketchy. Hint: raw stone as an improvised anvil is mentioned no where in the pags for hammers, metal, anvil, tools, forging, or stone).

[Chezzik 22]

Well, the people who maintain the wiki have been asking for input on what improvements should be made. I would post your suggestions there, but I don't want it to look like I'm the only one that posts there.

Here's a link to that thread.

[Draco18s 46]

Well, the people who maintain the wiki have been asking for input on what improvements should be made. I would post your suggestions there, but I don't want it to look like I'm the only one that posts there.

Here's a link to that thread.

Posted.