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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Kittychanley

The "Magic" of TFC

61 posts in this topic

Sometimes people like to play vanilla Minecraft. Sometimes they like to play "Minecraft-enhanced" with things such as minimaps and inventory tweaks. Sometimes they like to play "Minecraft-cheaty" where mods break the balance and mechanics the devs intended. Then other times people will play "Minecraft-transcended" which is nothing like what the devs ever envisioned. One of the ways to play "transcended" is called Terrafirmacraft.

 

Now, I voted for the quarantined section of cheaty addons, but after finally reading the arguments here, I was leaning toward banning. I understand the TFC devs put great effort into making the mod work just so, and I don't see why they'd want to implicitly endorse using this community to unravel that work.

 

But then I thought about how TFC came to be in the first place. Bioxx and Dunk conceived of a way to make a whole new experience from Minecraft. I have no idea how, but I presume they tapped into the vast Minecraft community as well as their own chops. I don't know if these forums are the place to support that kind of ingenuity within TFC itself, but just on sheer size compared to Minecraft, I question whether the TFC community would pull anything like that together if not here. I saw Generik try to put HQM into TFC and I know OneWolfe has his Terrafirmapunk pack. Those are both really great, but what lies beyond? What sort of TFC minigames, adventures, or PvP scenarios might pop into existence that aren't like anything we have?

 

It seems to me if these forums draw a line in the sand at cheaty, they're also ruling out everything beyond - at least in terms of this community being a rich resource. Maybe that's for the best. Maybe that's what the devs prefer. But without this concentrated community, I don't imagine we'll see a lot of it. I don't see us getting that thing that is to TFC as TFC is to Minecraft. Is that worth considering regarding this decision? I don't know, but I wanted to put it out there. I don't like the idea of using a mod to circumvent the TFC balance and mechanics, but then ... I never thought I'd ever want to play with a mod that "broke" anything in Minecraft, until I saw Etho play TFC.

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As promised, it is now Saturday afternoon, and the poll shows that the majority of the community has voted for the subforum, so the subforum has been created.

 

If you ever come across an addon that you feel should be moved to that subforum, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to notify the forum staff. If you would prefer for the addon to be removed from our forums entirely, please do the same. Each topic will be handled on a case-by-case basis for how many reports we will require before taking action.

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I don't see what all the fuss is about. The anvil is one thing that, in my opinion, is a limiter for a lot of people. People, no actually, why hide... I find the anvil incredibly annoying, and it took me ages before I figured out how some recipes worked, get a bit of lag and hit a button once too many and it would take ages to figure out how to correct it. You loose a) hammer durability, annoying B) time, annoying c) .... that's it? It doesn't make it more believable, more real, it's just annoying! 

 

Why make something, that even one of the dev's has gone on record as stating she doesn't like, harder, or put so much effort into stopping an optional tool to ease the tedium. At the end of the day it only gives a quick view on the optimal path to success, which you would eventually work out, if you have the patience. Then you could write it down on a piece of paper and pass it around, like in the olden days. If you mis-click you still have to waste a ton of clicks trying to figure out how to move the damn arrow to the marker!

 

The anvil was the first point I almost gave up on the mod as "no longer fun".

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The "fuss" is the fact that the addon in question allowed players on multi-player servers to circumvent the process of learning anvil recipes.  This gave those players an unfair advantage over those who didn't use the addon and spent the time and patience to learn those recipes themselves.  Worse, the nature of addon was such that the server owners had no way to disable the functionality.  The result was that some players could use this addon to cheat, and the server owners couldn't stop them from cheating.

 

It's fine and all that you find the anvil annoying.  And when you're playing single player, you can still use this addon to circumvent having to learn those oh so terribly annoying anvil recipes.  And Bioxx, as he just stated, has no problem with you using this addon to do just that.  And if you happen to play on, or run of your own accord, a multi-player server on which the addon is permitted, he's fine with that too.

 

But what you cannot do, what you will not do, is use this addon while connected to a multi-player server where this addon is not permitted.  That's all that has changed.

 

For fun, here's the hypothetical analogy: I write an add-on that lets me press a button to insert a stack of 64 red steel ingots into my inventory.  (It's because I find the process of prospecting and mining and smelting oh so terribly annoying.)  I then use this addon while playing on somebody's multi-player server.  Have I gained an unfair advantage over other players?  Should the server owner have the ability to disallow me from using this addon?  Or should I be free to do as I please, simply because I find certain aspects of the game "annoying"?

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For people who don't like the anvil, then they only have to make alternative tool head recipe with minetweaker, it's even easier than making an addon to calculate the required hit.

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For people who don't like the anvil, then they only have to make alternative tool head recipe with minetweaker, it's even easier than making an addon to calculate the required hit.

 

And that's fine and dandy because Minetweaker doesn't work on servers that don't have it installed.

 

Hell, you can just use creative mode in single player and throw away the ingot and cheat yourself the head as a replacement.

 

We don't care what you do in single player. We do care what you do when playing on servers.

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The "fuss" is the fact that the addon in question allowed players on multi-player servers to circumvent the process of learning anvil recipes.  This gave those players an unfair advantage over those who didn't use the addon and spent the time and patience to learn those recipes themselves.  Worse, the nature of addon was such that the server owners had no way to disable the functionality.  The result was that some players could use this addon to cheat, and the server owners couldn't stop them from cheating.

 

It's fine and all that you find the anvil annoying.  And when you're playing single player, you can still use this addon to circumvent having to learn those oh so terribly annoying anvil recipes.  And Bioxx, as he just stated, has no problem with you using this addon to do just that.  And if you happen to play on, or run of your own accord, a multi-player server on which the addon is permitted, he's fine with that too.

 

But what you cannot do, what you will not do, is use this addon while connected to a multi-player server where this addon is not permitted.  That's all that has changed.

 

For fun, here's the hypothetical analogy: I write an add-on that lets me press a button to insert a stack of 64 red steel ingots into my inventory.  (It's because I find the process of prospecting and mining and smelting oh so terribly annoying.)  I then use this addon while playing on somebody's multi-player server.  Have I gained an unfair advantage over other players?  Should the server owner have the ability to disallow me from using this addon?  Or should I be free to do as I please, simply because I find certain aspects of the game "annoying"?

 

It is nothing like automatically giving you free stuff, it is about saving the time poor their most precious commodity. If it automatically completed the recipe for you then I'd have an issue as well. 

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It is nothing like automatically giving you free stuff, it is about saving the time poor their most precious commodity. If it automatically completed the recipe for you then I'd have an issue as well. 

 

Take the exact same analogy that he stated, but change it so you have to press 5 buttons instead of just one, and it will consume some basic materials. That's the exact same thing that the anvil calculator is doing. No it isn't hitting the buttons for you, but you'd have to be fairly dense to screw up smithing when you have something that says "Click these 5 buttons in this order."

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Let's say I play on a server. I am the resident blacksmith in the general vicinity of a town on said server. At first it took me at least 5 minutes to hammer out a steel chestplate, but after doing it for quite a while, I narrowed the time down to 45-60 seconds. Then, a complete noob pops up onto the server with his shiny new cheat-sheet computer program and proceeds to mass-produce everything, taking seconds, if that, for each individual piece. Oh, sure, he goes out and finds the ore himself, or gets them from a miner in exchange for some gold or something, but he's effectively crowding me out. I can no longer afford to trade my wares for what I used to be able to, because he's undercutting my prices so much nobody else wants anything to do with me. I might complain to the server owners, but if for some reason my cries go unheard, I may just decide to take action, namely venting my frustrations in the form of lots of gunpowder barrels, and quit the server forever. Because of this, everybody suffers. My younger brother greatly enjoys playing the game roblox. One of his favorite things to play is Mad Paintball. Recently, there has been a hacker storm of this game, with players wanting some form of an advantage over each other cheating themselves faster, stronger, and all around more SUCK. Have you ever seen your entire team cowering in a circle around their flag in a desperately futile attempt to defend it, being slaughtered every few seconds, with no power whatsoever to defend themselves, their only option of survival being not to exit their spawn point? And don't forget what ends up happening to the hacker. Even their own teammates leave the game, because they do not wish to have any part with these hackers. They soon find themselves as the only player online, shunned by all. There have been a few honorable souls who have also downloaded the cheat engine, but for a completely different reason: They do everything in their power to thwart the attempts of said hackers, even sometimes setting their health to zero, thus killing them. Do you wish your servers to become such a battleground, everybody fighting tooth and nail within the code until the entire thing comes crashing down upon their heads because they have altered the code so horrendously the server is corrupted beyond repair? Let us not forget that the developers, no matter what anyone else may think, have the ultimate power. They are the law, and they could do with your account as they wish. I advise all of you to respect them, else they exact their terrible vengeance. (They probably wouldn't ban you for sneezing or anything, but they could if they wanted to. Really, try not to get them mad.) I have watched from the shadows, observing the happenings of this forum, but I can no longer stay silent. I must speak my mind. All those who have seen the movie Wreck-It Ralph, remember how Turbo, poking and prodding around in the code, set himself above all others, ridding himself of all competition? This is the kind of thing we may very well be dealing with in the near future, because people think that because they have gotten away with this, they can get away with anything! We must nip this in the bud, before it becomes far more serious.

Edited by Xenolith166
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It is nothing like automatically giving you free stuff, it is about saving the time poor their most precious commodity. If it automatically completed the recipe for you then I'd have an issue as well. 

 

My "addon" is saving me time, too: it saves me the time of prospecting for and mining up ore (So many button clicks! So much tedium!) and smelting it in the appropriate recepticle (bloomeries, blast furnaces and crucibles -- oh, my! The drudgery!).

 

But, if you prefer: how about an addon that simply summons all of the ore blocks in, say, a twenty-block radius directly into my inventory?  That'll prevent me from having to waste my precious time digging them all up myself.  Then another addon that transforms all of that ore in my inventory directly into ingots.  Huge time saver!

 

While we're at it, how about an addon that turns one vegetable seed into two?  That'll save me the time of growing that vegetable, harvesting it, failing to get a second seed, wash/rinse/repeat... so much time wasted!

 

And how about an addon that lets me feed grain to my animals as many times as I want in the same game day?  After all, i don't want to waste my time waiting for in-game days to cycle.

 

Oh -- and how about an addon that, with the single press of a button, takes rocks and sand out of my inventory and builds a lovely, six-story brick house for me?  I mean, it's not like I really have the time to chisel all of those rocks into bricks, or want to waste my time waiting for sand to turn into mortar, or spend still more of my immensely precious time actually building my house. 

 

Yes, these are the sorts of addons that this game really needs.  I've got much better things to do with my time, after all.  Like actually playing the game.  Which of course I can't do anymore, since all of these addons just do it for me.

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Thought I'd throw in my two cents.

 

I tend to only play off-and-on, with rather large gaps between playthroughs, partly due to grind walls, and partly due to having other things to do/periodically switching what I do in my free time. This usually results in multiple large changes in the game each time I've played.I'm also pretty forgetful short-term sometimes, to the point of having to look up a recipe/combination/process/ect 3-5 times within an hour, among other related issues. No idea what the reason for that is.

 

Basically, I'm almost a new player each time I start a new world/server beyond basic outlining knowledge, so I can see why people would want addons/apps. I think that making certain processes clearer and doing other things to improve the readability of the game could make it more approachable to new players. Making it easier to at least figure out how to do something, rather than figure out how to do something perfectly, or providing more room for error with subsequent consequences, I think would make them less likely to use 'cheats'. Hitting a wall and having to do something near-perfectly to get past it can become quite frustrating if you're learning from scratch.The main thing I'd suggest is adding more achievements, particularly surrounding metal processes, to give people a better idea of what to work toward; showing what paths are available to go down, without explaining exactly how to walk. With the complexities of the mod, it seems like there'd be more guidance of that sort.

 

 

Personally, I'd like if the inner workings of the game were more commonly discussed in public, things like the exact numbers behind smithing and whatnot...but that's just me. I see more accessible understanding as a way of evening the field between the ever-present people who make and use tools to their advantage and regular players. I hope that a similar Spoiler section is made for regular discussions in the future. Disregarding everything else, it's better to manage the discussion here, rather than have another site (which might not take considerations such as seperating information that would ruin the game for some players) become the primary source for information on this mod. The other Wiki is already pretty popular, and I've found myself going there several times to find a few things that aren't listed on the official one.

 

As suggested by another player (in sort of a sarcastic way, but still a good suggestion), I actually think adding default-hidden Spoiler segments to Wiki pages is a good idea. It's a way to make information accessible that might ruin the game for some newer players, but could be welcome help for someone who's experienced and nearly understands a certain aspect of the game, but wants to take the final step of mastering it.

 

 

Edit: It seems to me that people think that it's possible to stop more hack-oriented modifications of the game simply by disallowing certain posts on this one, particular website...it isn't, not in the slightest. Which is another reason I'm glad that this step occured; if tools that can be used to gain an unfair advantage on a server do pop up, it's better if they do so here rather than in another community, so that countermeasures and recognition can be developed more easily.Keep in mind that banning of discussion of the mere existance of these sorts of things for a long period of time for the Vanilla game, across a plethora of community sites, simply led to more stealthy and harder to catch hack users. A person who's never tested game hacks themselves has little chance of catching them if a new type or clever user happens to get past a plugin or built in defense.

Edited by Pyr0mrcow
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