theJalden

I've suggested this before. When I did it there were no plans to implement it. I still suggest that it should be implemented. The only thing about it is that it should in no way make the game more tedious. That being said, there are some ways stamina could improve the game. My idea for stamina was slightly different from yours. I think hunger and thirst already do a fair job representing long term and mid term respectively. I wanted a rapidly gaining stamina system, to represent short term fatigue. If you have ever played skyrim or LoZ:SS than you know what sort of short term stamina I am referring to. Perhaps a small difference would be that I think there should be a cap on the point stamina could be easily regened to. This cap could be determined as a function of hunger, health, thirst, level, and time after using the stamina. And this may be getting silly, but the stamina could increase logarithmically, slowing down as it gets closer to the cap. Ways stamina could impact the game 1.) Sprinting for infinite distances is nerfed. Makes foot races more fun, transport infrastructure more important, (bridges, tunnels, maybe even roads) but more importantly in increases the need for a horse. 2.) Swimming is nerfed, No more swimming between continents, any long distance swimming is impossible, making boats more necessary. 3.) Fighting would have the highest impact and could be a way to make the higher tier swords and armor more valuable. Iron can be strong, but slow, and Steel can be lighter, meaning you get more mileage out of it. Bows would consume stamina to keep drawn, making timing when firing a bow much more important. Fighting in heavy plate armor would be tiring, perhaps encouraging mounted fights. It would make PvP and PvE more tactical, a much needed feature in vanilla. (Basically make TerraFirmaCraft mount and blade) 4.) This isn't in TerraFirmaCraft, or slated to be added, but I'd like to climb trees. If you could use up some of your stamina to go up a tree. Maybe ctrl to climb and shift to be able to move around on the leaves. And while we are off topic moving through leaves should be a lot slower, not cobweb slow, but slow enough to get stuck. Maybe 60-70% base speed. 5.) Stamina would be an example of what I like to call an emergent problem. As you progress in the game, managing stamina becomes more of an issue (Heavy armor, long distances to travel to ore nodes, heavier weapons to swing), but you will have more options on how to deal with it (special recipie improves stamina regen, horses, boats, more weapon choices). This enables strategy, and gives the game more flavor after you have survived the first few nights. Things to note: Crafting, mining, chopping, digging, etc. I don't think should have a stamina price tag attached. Those things are tedious enough. I can imagine a system where you have to stop every minute and rest for 10 seconds while mining, not very fun. You might be able to convince me with a compelling argument, but I strongly oppose it interfering with those systems. Also, sleeping to restore stamina, as much as it would make sense, shouldn't be added for the simple reason of servers. You can't have a game dependent mechanic based on coordinating every member of a multiplayer server. Once again you could convince me otherwise. I could hear an argument for simply being in a bed restores stamina, like how it instantly sets spawn. But that would require being able to "sleep" during the day, and carrying a bed around with you just takes up one more inventory slot.

I'm always a fan of multiblock structures, and jerky for that matter. I imagine that it would be built something along the lines of a rack above a firepit within a sealed structure. They would need to make a new meet rack of course. I'm really not a fan of the whole cooking system in TFC. There should be a differentiation between baking, roasting, stewing, and maybe even frying. But that is a different topic.

So you can sleep in straw beds but it won't skip the the night? What's the point of that? Is it supposed to represent lying in bed awake all night? Or maybe you just misspoke, perhaps the more likely option, because one of the biggest problems I have with the early game in TFC is spending all night awake in my thatch hut waiting for the sun to come up.

There is no denying that mysticism has played a huge part in history, and as a role-player, I have a huge respect for the metaphysical. I would like to see some form of mysticism implemented into TFC, not only for the role-playing potential, but to serve a purpose. As it stands, players tend to rack up a pretty large amount of food in a pretty short amount of time. With the new update food is a bit harder to come by. But once things get moving it isn't hard to reach a surplus of food. In addition to this, piles of junk like rotten flesh, bones, saplings, among other things take up valuable inventory space. So I believe mysticism in TFC should be primarily sacrificed based. An alter block should be able to be crafted after unlocking ceramics. Each sacrifice would bring a "buff" to the devotee. Minor sacrifices, like bone and rotten flesh would give shorter, or less effective buffs, while food sacrifices (perhaps in a combination system like the meals) would give stronger buffs. Some ideas for buffs, the names don't have to stick: DIvine Fortune: Random chance of increased yield while mining/digging/gathering woodReligious devotion: Ability to work faster, break blocks in a shorter amount of timeAsceticism: Reduced hunger/thirstWarrior of the faith: Attacks slightly stronger, defence slightly higherBuffs like Warrior would be especially important early game, as fighting 1.6.x mobs has become a big grievance. This idea sticks interests me because there would always be a question as to what to put your resources towards. As it stands metal always goes to tools. But if metal sacrifices were implemented, you might be tempted to save the metals for the gods.

The mechanics behind sugar cane feel too vanilla-y. So I propose some modest changes that would up the believably. Reeds take longer to break, faster with a knife. I'm not talking about a marathon session punching reeds by the pond, just a bit longer, like punching leaves in trees.Reeds should take a little longer to grow. I understand that they are a fast-growing grass, but it could be toned down to an average of one block every 3 days.To make sugar, the cane needs to be put in a quern. You can't make sugar just by tearing apart reeds with your bare hands, and while the process is more complicated than mashing the cane under a stone, it is believable that that would create a powdery sugar.Reeds shouldn't make paper, they should make papyrus, there doesn't need to be a difference; it could really just be a re-texture and re-naming of paper. However, it would add points in my book for historic accuracy. And down the road it might lead to some other features like true paper-making from wood pulp, or vellum made from animal hides.

I suppose it doesn't have to be this way. But I imagine that it is pretty hard to put a wooden bowl on spit, so that rule's out meals. Bread is also kind of silly to put on a spit and roast, and would be better served in the oven I proposed. Eggs are similar, in that they would never be roasted on a spit. As of right now, you can't cook vegetables so that doesn't really leave much else to roast.

That is pretty much the feel I was going for. Incorperating "TerraCraft Gods" would become dogmatic, and letting them bestow you with divine graces is rediculous. The concept of mysticism, while not realistic, is at least belivable. The theme that if you sacrifice now, then you will be rewarded later permeates all eras of human history. It would also add a mechanic to the game that is totally optional, but adds functionality. Both through buffs and through getting rid of pointless junk. I think it would be interesting. I play on a PvP server with a few friends, and I could see dragging prisoners up to some altar, and sacrificing them for divine favor. Or reenact the end scene from the Wicker Man. I could also see a food sacrifice after harvest, the decision to keep or sacrifice the food, and figuring out what the balance would be could be an interesting decision in a game.

I've always wanted to roast in TFC. I imagine this implemented as a spit block above a fireplace block, (might be difficult to code up). The benefits of roasting would probably just be a higher capacity of cooking food. i.e. You can put more than 1 food on the spit at a time. Only works with meat. In the same vein an oven block could be added, which needs a slow burning fire under it to cook. The oven would obviously be used for baking. While they are at it they could make ceramic bowls, putting wooden bowls in a fire always seemed a little absurd to me. Ceramic kettles/pots for boiling water for tea and coffee might also be novel.

I for one like the idea of mud bricks. It might be a good material to use for the bee hive kiln if that gets coded up. It could be constructed like the bloomery. Historic accuracy is nice too, but perhaps it could be a weaker brick, one that follows gravity, in the manner of cobblestone, or vanilla sand. That being said, clay is not a renewable resource, and this might make things scarce in the long run if used too heavily.

I like the idea of bone China, it would give something to do with all of the bones I've been picking up. Did mobs drop bones before this update, I hadn't noticed.

In my humble opinion, the skeleton is hard enough to attack without catching on fire everytime you are hit by a skeleton. I died with one near spawn and died while trying to run away. I'm not sure if the flaming javalins are a bug or a feature, but either way, I think it is too over powered and needs to be nerfed.

My guess is for the same reason people drink in real life, to have fun. It adds an element of realism and roleplaying to be incorporated in the game, and we can finally build taverns filled with alcohols and spirits of the finest vintage, not to mention, it's something that can be done with excess food, though I'm not sure how the ratios are going to turn out. I only hope that they don't refill thirst. Alcoholic beverages will actually dehydrate, unless they are particularily weak.

Seems to me to be a little complicated. One thing I like about minecraft is that it abstracts real animals. It doesn't need to look realistic, it just needs to represent the animal to an extent. This horse doesn't really mesh with the vanilla animals. On the other hand you have been reworking the other animal models, so it may work with that...

I didn't know hemp was added, presumably for rope then. It seems to be a popular request. What would rope be used for then, corraling animals? Speaking of which, are horses going to be in the next build? Bioxx and Dunk mentioned it earlier, but looking through the git I didn't see any horse entities. Maybe they is just waiting to merge the code until it is finished. Horses aren't really a dealbreaker for me though, TFC is fun enough without them.

With the upcoming major update, it appears like a lot of the early game will be redefined. Going off what Dunk and Bioxx have said, the next major update will include the following: Bolded items indicate measure which will effect my proposal SkillsCombat OverhaulMobs Overhaul - Wild mobs, spooky things moving exclusively undergroundNerfing current T0 metals, will be used in alloysCopper made new T0 metalCeramics overhaulCan't smelt in firepitPlanks only made with a metal sawCrafting table made by rightclicking block with particular item (ala anvil or prep table) Early Game Overhaul Made a number of edits after collecting a few ideas from myself and others around the forums. I'll keep the post modified for now, and ugly as it is please read the edits, I think they might be worth considering. Additions are in italics, deletions are striken through. I am aware that the game is not attempting perfect anthropological consistency, but there are some obvious gaps that I see with the system as it stands. Many of the suggestions I have here are given elsewhere on the forum, sorry for reposting. But there is no thread that I have seen where my propositions are presented in a unified, well-formatted way. Many of my suggestions are inspired by . Before criticizing I encourage watching it.1.) Hand Tools: Before man used hafted tools, he used simple hand tools shaped by knapping. There were a number of tools made, some of the earliest being the hand-axe, the hand-trowel, and the hand-scraper. The tools will limit accruing early building materials, making finding a natural shelter more important e.g. live in a cave. Hand-Axe: Same recipe as an axe head. Can be used to chop down trees at a slower rate than regular axe, lower yield 50%-75%, more stamina required to chop tree (explained later). Not sure about how durability should be effected. With skills, effectiveness at wood cutting will improve. (faster cutting, less stamina, more yield). Can also be used as a weapon with a small reach. *Edit: Possibly make it so a hand axe is required to collect branches from trees, which can be used as a weapon Hand-Trowel: Same recipe as a shovel head. used to shovel dirt, clay, sand, and gravel at a slower rate than a shovel, but faster than by hand. More stamina required per block. With skills, faster digging, less stamina. *A tool could be required to collect a dirt/sand/gravel block, meerly destroying a block can be done with hands.Hand-Scraper: Recipe below. Used to scrape hides, collect wool, sharpen sticks, and other early precision cutting. When scraping hides, will damage the hide. Damage can be lessened with improved skills.Hand Scraper Recipe_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ x x x _ x x x x x 2.) Pointed Sticks and Clubs: This was one of the earliest weapons made by heating a stick over a fire to create a point. Since that method is used to make torches, I propose simply using the hand scraper to sharpen sticks by placing the two in the personal crafting box. These pointed sticks will have a longer reach than a hand-axe, but will do less damage. May be thrown. Wood clubs can be a random drop from breaking leaves*, (can be crafted into a stick, or used as firewood?) and it would be an early, low durability weapon useable as it is. Medium reach. *Edit: branch is only collected by using a hand-axe on leaves, afterwards it won't be necessary. 3.) Different Hunting*: The thrill is in the chase, so wild animals should flee if you get too close. As an animal runs away it will tire and lose stamina, quickly so you can still get food the first night. Once you catch up, and wound it, it gets a burst of energy and runs away again, but it won't be able to run for as long. After this you can get up close and finish it with a higher damage weapon like a club or hand axe. Not so passionate about this point, but I think it would be fun. *Edit: The first animal kill will be vital in what I have planned out. I'm thinking that a knife should be required to craft grass into cord. To make the first knife, sinew or spider string will be the only material available. This makes the earlier weapons necessary. After that cordage can be made in abundance through wool, hemp or grass. 4.) Lashing/Rope/Sinew: The reason why regular stone tools cannot be created at first is because they require lashing. An axe without its head bound to the shaft would last about 1/2 of a swing. There are a number of materials that could be used for lashing including. Spider string, Animal sinew, leather strips, hemp cord, wool yarn, or grass rope. The type of lashing determines the durability. A hafted tool will be able to be created in the 2x2 crafting square with the head on top of a stick, and a type of cord to the side. Recipe: D = head, / = stick, s = cord. s D _ / Tiers: Spider String and Animal Sinew: As mob drops these are the most rare, and are physically the strongest. 100% durabilityLeather strips: harder to make, lower yield. 90% durabilityHemp cord: Hemp will be farmable, so a large amount can be produced. But because it takes a while to farm something it should be relatively strong. 80% durabilityWool Yarn: Made as is, but should be better served as cloth. 60% durabilityGrass rope: Grass should be able to be collected with a hand-axe or scraper, or as a random drop from punching grass. Can be made in a crafting square. 40% durabilityGrass Rope Recipe, gives 3 grass rope:G G _ _ G G G G _ (Or its mirror) *Edit: Grass Cordage K= Knife, G = Grass: _ K _ G Just a small idea I just thought of, String can be used to make a bow drill, which can be used to make a more consistent fire starter. Hopefully with more durability. 5.) Tar: Tar can be used as a type of glue to make the bond of a fibrous cord and a tool stronger. Adding a jar of tar to the tool recipe in the remaining slot will increase durability by 10% pts. So a hemp cord with tar will be the same strength as leather strips, also makes grass rope not completely useless. I imagine tar could also be used to make persistent torches if the devs want to make standard torches burn out after a while. Tar can be made using a ceramic firepit, with a clay collecting cup below the fire. 6.) Hide: With the update armor can't be made until the early-mid game. So I propose that raw hide can be scraped with the aforementioned hand-scraper, and later a knife for better durability. The hide can then be placed upon a stretcher, and depending on temperature and humidity will dry out in X amount of time. Hide naturally won't be as effective or durable as leather, but at least you will have some protection. Hide could also be crafted into leather strips, hide giving 3 strips, with leather giving 6 perhaps. Stretcher Recipe: 's' = cord of some sort '/' = stick s / s / _ / s / s Hide/ Leather Strips x = Hide/Leather x x x x x _ _ _ _ _ x x x x x _ _ _ _ _ x x x x x 7.) Stamina: This has been proposed a number of times before, but with the new skill system, I see stamina as working out as an interesting game mechanic. Stamina would decrease doing various activates, e.g. Swimming, sprinting, chopping trees, digging. And increase in less active times, e.g. walking around and sleeping. Sleeping would restore stamina to full. And hunger would be more related to stamina rather than health.* As a result of death I would prefer to see stamina cut rather than health because too often monsters will just kill you again and again until morning. Better tools will be more efficient and cost less stamina. Edit: I would like to see stamina work like it does in Skyrim, where it only takes effect in combat, swimming, sprinting, and perhaps drawing a bow. It recharges fast enough to not worry about. To make it more balanced though, the maximum stamina could be capped by the hunger level, giving the actual level of hunger more relevance. For example, if you have 50% hunger, you can only regain 50% of your stamina. 8.) Sleep: It is simply tedius to be required to stay awake all night especially in the early game. A player should be able to sleep on a horizontal surface 2 blocks long by right clicking it with an empty hand after sunset. A better bed could be made with the grass clippings covered in cloth Recipe: C = wool cloth, G = grass _ _ _ C C C G G G The reason why stamina has not been implemented yet is because of SMP, it would be too hard to require 30 or so members on a server to all sleep at the same time. So this feature should be toggleable in the game files or even the option menu. I don't want stamina to only be a hindrance to the player, a mechanic like this should swing both ways. This is where skills come in. A high stamina matched with higher skills should let the player run, dig, swim, more effectively than the base. All of my ideas could be implemented without the use of stamina, I just thought it would be an interesting mechanic to see in the game. To be honest it is the one that I spent the least amount of time imagining, so I'm sorry if the idea doesn't seem fully formed.

I made these suggestions not too long ago in the early game overhaul thread, and I thought they didn't really fit in, and they are items that deserve more focus. Stamina: Suggested many times, though not implemented directly because hunger/thirst represent the mechanic. But I find they do a pretty poor job. There are two types of strength, endurance and short bursts of high energy. Food/thirst do an adequate job representing the former, but a new mechanic is needed for he latter. I propose that stamina is a new bar, perhaps just above health in the color yellow. It would work by draining over labor intensive activities, i.e. sprinting, jumping/swimming, and various aspects of combat. It would recharge quickly, no more than 10 seconds I think, but here is the catch: The maximum stamina is capped by the level of hunger. So, if you are at 80% hunger, stamina can only recharge to 80%. This makes the actual hunger level more relevant, because as it stands being at 25% hunger has the same effect as being at 100% hunger (being full). I'm not so partial on the math, the relationship doesn't need to be 1-1. Maximum Stamina could also be related to health and thirst Sleeping: It is excruciatingly boring to stay up the whole night just waiting for dawn. Furthermore, beds do not become available in the game until after the invention of the saw in this new update. Being able to skip the boring parts would make this game far more engaging. Sleeping should be immediately available, and for the people on SMP, completely optional, generating no ill effects if you get no sleep. Dirt bed: This one is easy, you can lie down and sleep by right clicking any area with an empty hand that is two blocks long, the time is after sunset, and has enough light. The dirt bed is removed after waking up, there are no benefits, it simply skips the night. The purpose of the light is to ward away wild animals. Grass Bed: In my last thread I suggested being able to pick up grass, this was one of the functions I proposed for it. The grass bed functions like a normal bed, it saves the spawn after sleeping in it, and skips the night. Recipe: C = wool cloth, G = grass _ _ _ C C C G G G Regular bed: Same construction and function, perhaps some health benefits.

Perhaps penalties to fast travel in this system will be removed by the new horses, if they are introduced in the game next release. I seem to remember Dunk saying he was working with the creator of Mo' Creatures to create a "new" style horse. I imagine the period of rest to be quite short, say 10-20 seconds to recharge completely, believe me, I, like you, do not want to stand around for 5 minutes waiting for stamina to recharge. As for the swimming, exploration always seemed like the result of technological achievement, which is why there was no real effort in Europe until the 15th century. I know your point. This mod is not a "survival simulation 2013" but at the same time it does skew towards believability. Yes people have a long endurance, but the problem arises in short bursts of high energy. We cannot keep up a sprint for more than a few minutes, at best and this is what I thought double tapping "w" meant. I'm looking at the big picture as well. With stamina combat becomes more than just spam clicking a sword, because that could very easily be penalized by spam clicking. It also would promote a faster shot from arrows if they can't be held fully drawn indefinitely. For fighting those zombies in a cave it may help to have some decent armor, but I was hoping this mechanic would be more fun in PvP. If it helps you can think of it as a creative constraint. I'm not sure if you missed it, but I thought I crossed out relating stamina to sleep, and Dunk said nothing about that. It would work by having a constantly decreasing maximum, and increase again once you eat again, I hope this clears that up.

^^ Hey Bihlbo, sorry, normally I do check for posts like this. These were really just some ideas that I had that didn't really "fit" with my Early Game Overhaul suggestion. I don't get the vibe that you are mad at me though.

This is trying to fix something that isn't broken. Based on my experience chat is just used for unrelated conversation, your results may vary. But the system works fine for me, and if you don't like the immersion, you can't stop people from communicating over skype or whatnot. This isn't an attack on you, obviously it is well thought out. I just don't think this element effects actual game play enough to be changed.

Way to shoot a guy down ;-) But I totally understand. Sinew and cordage complicates things, and you are already slowing down the game through ceramics. That does not mean I wouldn't eventually like to see my suggestion implemented, even if it is a lost cause. The stamina suggestion is similar to mine, at least that makes me happy. It could be improved with skills you set out to implement, and it would balance out the colors of the HUD, if you choose to put it over the health bar.It's at least nice to see that the devs take stuff into consideration from the community.

No, TNT is not craftable as it requires advanced chemistry, a mechanic not implemented into the mod. You can store gunpowder in barrels, though these have no functionality as of yet. Dunk has mentioned that he plans on expanding a barrels functionality.

Thank you. I'm quite impressed, your criticism is well thought out and brings a lot of good points. But here is the way that I view it. TerraFirmaCraft is a true survival way of playing Minecraft, which has deviated from survival and focused more on creating tools for adventure maps, not that there is anything wrong with that. But being a survival game I think it should represent being placed in the middle of nowhere with nothing but the resources around you and your own ingenuity. The game transistions from being controlled by the environment to controlling the environment, that is the great human transition. I would actually like to see things move farther from what I have suggested in the original post. I think that you should at first only be able to pick up rocks from the ground and food from plants (also wouldn't object to having sticks be a surface block akin to small rocks) at the point of spawning, and requiring a hand tool to remove branches, cut grass, dig dirt and otherwise manipulate other overworld blocks. Knives would be required to cut grass into a lashing, making it available only after killing an animal for sinew, or a spider for string. This way you literally go from having nothing to manipulating the environment. Each minor advancement, especially in the first few days would be vital to improving number of resources and making an otherwise hard life easier. I don't know, I may just find a nice poetry in my line of thinking. Now to go point by point: 1. Hopefully addressed in my last paragraph. Cutting down a tree is hard. I know the game isn't going for realism, but overcoming the small victories is fun and is what should be expected in a survival game. 2. You make a fair point, a tool needs a niche, otherwise it is used for a short time and just takes up space. This is why I suggested being able to use sticks, a very common item, as spears. After you stop needing spears, just use sticks for something else. The branches are trickier, they would have a use in the earliest game, but would become next to useless later on, which is why I suggested being able to craft them into sticks, perhaps two sticks to make it worth the trouble. Not exactly sure how it should be implemented. The niche of these two tools is proto-stone tool defense. You may still need food before you are able to fashion a javelin or a knife. 3. Thanks, but as Dunk said, some of this might be hard to implement :-) 4&5. Could be fixed by making stone tools more durable I guess, but it won't exactly be hard to create cordage given how abundant wild grass is, and it even respawns over time. 6. You win on this one. I didn't even consider this for all the thinking that went into this. I might have just been hoping this point for a greater historical accuracy. All I can say is clay barrels might not be made, leaving a need for early game armor. 7.Stamina has been giving me a lot of grief. I don't want players to be able to swim in an ocean indefinately if they have the mind to bring a few porkchops. I really like how Skyrim handled it, making it only really necesary to mind in combat, and sprinting. I certainly wouldn't object creating this sort of system. Thank you once again for your feedback, this is an evolving idea. I think I'll make some edits to the original post now.

Hey, this topic seems to be drifting. Fofi, implementing a swarm behaviour would involve much more coding than is practical. Nice thought, but not high on priorities. Soulrakyn, fertiliser has already been mentioned, and I believe Dunk has said he would consider it. The problem is that agriculture lends itself to being more practical in SMP worlds, which are always running. My original point was trying to extend the early stone age. With the overworld being more survivable during the night, it isn't vital to build a full fledged shelter. So by increasing the time it takes to advance, and the benefits of advancing, more satisfaction can be achieved. With the removal of wood working early game leatherworking doesn't take effect until later. Hides will still be gathered from mob drops, and there is no reason they should just remain a useless resource until you can craft a saw. I would really like to know if people like the idea of dried hides as armour.

It seems to me like this post belongs in the suggestions section of the forums. But I do like the idea of taking damage while stepping on fire. Except maybe if you have boots? I've always found footware under appreciated in this game.

Sluices are a nice addition, although with the new update, I'm wondering how effective they are going to be. Small ores (tin, zinc, bismuth) are being nerfed, and copper will be the new T0. Also they won't be able to be crafted until after a saw is constructed, becuase planks will only be made with a saw. This all is making me question the usefulness and what will be done with them in future updates.