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I find it kind of ironic - you've just suggested some immersive way of writing down temperatures which knowledge of would be breaking immersion. Given the lack of in-game temperature measurement devices, you can only depend on F3 for that which is not meta.

But beside that thing, I don't mind it much. Actually, TFC had ability to simply write books in the past, but because of certain issues it was taken out if I recall correctly. Just wait a bit, one day it may get fixed and work well and probably we'll get it back then. That coupled with ability to make wooden signs would be everything regarding writing down informations in game I'd really need.

I am less fond of using almanach on animals or generally, as anything less than actual notepad though I guess such kind of function could be useful at times without being much of a problem, especially if we'd get more crafts requiring identification and fluid combination of ingredients (say, alchemy or herbalism which could work not unlike cooking does as ability to automatically write down all kinds of recipes and their effect, with illustrations and whatnot I find rather appealing).

Actually, I wouldn't mind it if the game would differentiate even between the trees of the same type. It always struckt me as weird and kind of lacking immersion how one could grow tight-knit area of woods and then, with an effort necessary to just take out one of the trees, deforest the whole place in a gigantic rain of logs. Kinda silly, especially given that it's not really that hard to just fell several of them in some random forest. I'd even categorize it as an exploit/bug.

Barter, and backed currency - you forget the idea of a fiat currency completely.

I doubt that's gonna happen. Generally, the idea is to develop more realistic overworld creatures (mainly, wild animals) and moving all the vanilla Minecraft spooks underground. While there may be some changes in how those spooks will work and who knows, maybe there will be also some addition to them one day, overworld zombie bosses go way against the concept.

I wouldn't mind some slightly fantastical, unique creatures, but boss zombies roaming overworld randomly with unique items and acheivements don't strike me as something that I'd really like.

James, you shouldn't revive such threads if you basically post just to agree. Still, since you've already done it, I'll have a go at the whole thing.

Going through the thread it seems that major issue is not really the currency and trade as much as lack of things to do late-game - trade is just to make it more comfortable to get stuff one doesn't really need, apparently.

Regarding money themselves, however, I don't really think it'll work. If trade is to be done between players, setting up stiff ore requirements and value of currency won't do. On one server someone may give away treasures for a copper coin, on the other a handful of copper ores may cost one a fortune. In addition to that, given there probably wouldn't be a system ensuring worth of currency, it'd have to be artificially encouraged to be of value. Otherwise some other player may simply claim that he does not need your coins as yet another player who offers some goods he may be interested in does not accept currency either.

As mentioned earlier - like IRL, money have value because people decided for it to be so. However, players have less of a reason to do so in TFC.

The only items of solid value in TFC are those where that value is intrinsic. Raw resources, livestock and finished goods. Just like in good 'ol times with the exception of fact that there's no real reason to turn your load of iron into some bond or stack of coins because if you want you can haul all those ingots to the market yourself and exchange goods directly. It's actually not a problem for me - it works very well, possibly better than coins would (for reasons mentioned above) and trade based on physical goods exchange fits the general theme quite well.

If some server needs currency, they can easily adapt some random, raw, basic resource as a common denomination of worth without any need to implement money. I know of one server where, if player didn't want to peddle and trade his posessions in particular, he could use coal, charcoal and metal ores as money. As the resources were used by most players, even if in processed form (tools) only, they had some - lesser, greater - worth nearly for everyone, so there wasn't much of a problem with accepting those as a currency. Prices fluctuated, better or worse deals were made, some players were able to specialize and live off it - in a word, working economy.

I would suspect that that's the case as well. Put some torches among your sugar canes and near the water to (hopefully) prevent it from freezing and see if there's any difference.

Sometimes certain areas hog plenty of resources. I remember games where everything run more or less okay (as in, 'it was playable') except in a few areas (where I guess something was going on, possibly underground) which were bringing game to near complete standstill (2, 3 frames per second?).

Other than that, Java in general isn't most system resource-efficient, so Minecraft may cause some problems in a few situations and TFC has quite high requirements in comparison with vanilla game, something which may be slightly worked upon, but probably never will be resolved in any other way than 'your new computer is so powerful that it makes no difference'.

I'll be honest.

I am very strongly against it.

Not only industrial age is way past the death of survivalistic societies, it wouldn't mesh with the theme and the mood of the game - for me - at all. Even worse thing is that industrialization very often means automatization and while it is an element many are fond of in vanilla Minecraft, building sometimes quite elaborate and interesting redstone devices (hell, I like to try my hand at some zany inventions myself from time to time), automation and typical modern conveniences here would be horrible and I am willing to bet, a ruin of TFC for quite some players (based on the fact that lack of automation, difficulties in establishing easy farms and so on is one of the high points of this mod for my acquaintances and me).

In fact, pipes etc which are considered a future addition I already see both as something that potentially may mess up the game and a thing I could perfectly do without but since so far devs claimed that it's mostly for stuff like water pumps and other simple devices rather than farms, I am somewhat pacified for now.

I also don't see stuff like plastic as befitting TFC - oh, obviously many interesting items could be added but many of them can also be done while keeping pre-medieval atmosphere (you don't really need plastic to make a pot) and many others wouldn't really fit. Things like steam-powered trains actually aren't much of feature for me, as again - convenience of fast travel is something that I am not fond of. It's enough that we have horses, more than that is simply an overkill for me.

It's uncommon for me to be so negative about an idea - normally, while I am willing to point out potential issues, it's still for the sake of improving the suggestion. But in this case I am afraid I must say that I'd rather keep TFC as far from industrial age level of technology as possible.

To be honest, I'd rather not have skills to be reclaimable by reaching body, but have simply a percentage of each skill lost per each death, requiring simply re-learning. That way there will be consequences for death, but no total disappearance of all abilities, nor a risk that the character will become completely skill-less if body cannot be reclaimed (fell into a pit of lava or ended somewhere on the bottom of some ocean)

Well, makes sense, and I actually like the fact that decay is completely stopped in case of frozen food (not completely accurate in relation to realism, but type of simplification that actually makes the game more enjoyable). I wouldn't mind it if frozen food would have to be prepared/warmed up before being edible, though to slightly balance the advantages of freezing edibles.

Either way, question answered, problem solved, thread loses it's point.

At the risk of causing controversy, I actually wouldn't mind some light undertones of magic, but I'd want it to be done well, with subtle workings and features meshing well with the background and survival, rather than clubbing me over the head with all kinds of heroic fantasy over-the-top stuff (that's why I actually am not an eager Thaumcraft player despite it's varied features). In fact, delicate esoteric themes that don't translate directly into buffs, fireballs and boni would very much befit prehistoric and ancient survivalist and could enrich the game.

Some examples of what I possibly wouldn't mind were mentioned in trinkets suggestion thread. Those who play a roguelike called UnReal World (quite a decent game though with a steep learning curve and more hardcore, unforgiving survival than what we have here) can probably attest that fantasy elements may be done well and fit realistic themes, as well - with the world more realistic than TFC one, there are also elements of religion, topic of place of men in the nature etc mostly realized through vague favor of gods and rituals for help in mundane things like safe sleep, luck in hunting and so on.

However, in regards to the main point of the topic, I don't really expect or want typical fantasy TFC. Especially because I believe it'd be turned into heroic fantasy fare as most of such kind of mods tend to be.

No seeds drop from tall grass anymore.

Huh? Yeah, I'd agree that you're spoiled. Chopping sequoia with the worst stone axe takes how much, 20 seconds tops? Not a problem at all and it gets even easier with copper or bronze. If anything, I'd have chopping time for low-tier axes increased considerably and decreased it for higher tier-metal ones, to further encourage upgrading the tool assortment.

I would prefer being able to use wood as a possible fuel (shorter lasting, perhaps) as it was and is used in old-type furnaces for warming houses and cooking as a very viable alternative to coal.

Beside that, I don't see overly much point in pyramid design for points 3, 4 and 5. If 3 is a stack of one thing (and it can only be that), then stuff will go through 4 to 5 progressively, taking exactly the same time. At this point, unless someone sits by the range min-maxing gains, it can be as well a single row of 3, 4 and 5. I'd rather have 2 rows of each so you can slowly cook two stacks of different items on the stove/range though that possibly could be a bit too convenient, so with one row I'd be fine as well.

In general though, sure, why not, that over/stove/range can be interesting and add to the feeling of progression without being necessary if someone doesn't want it. I wouldn't set it up as a priority planned feature, though, as I don't think that firepit built in a slab-surrounded area in the kitchen or on a nice stone block looks bad.

Regarding crafting, I am not sure about making several different benches for different tasks. Aside from common sense factor, where one bench is as good for different types of production provided necessary tools are available (the whole point of a basic bench is a flat surface to drop and process resources on, at least when we talk about items at the level of complexity of TFC) I think it would be somewhat redundant and not fun to run between several different benches in order to make one item using different components.I'd rather 'put stuff in shape of X' as it uses one single UI, doesn't force me to run around or build a sizeable manufacture. Such elements don't help the survival aspect, they just bog the game down somewhat, I'll risk saying. There are people who already consider smithing a handful and while I support earlier statement that other types of crafting could use some additional developments, making all of them get just more complexity may not be good.I like the idea of blunt arrows, though. Not only for fighting skeletons - I wonder if they could be used to stun animals. Once wildlife is improved and so will be animal behavior including making them harder to hunt down, being able to stun running animal to leash or finishing it off would be quite nice, I'd say.Fire arrows, however, wouldn't work. At all. Realistically (yes, yes, it's about believability, stock answer - that believability depends on a degree of common sense and realism, just with concepts simplified for the sake of fun) flaming arrows didn't damage living targets more than regular ones and things don't catch fire with them easily either. They were mostly used for signalization and to set (usually thatch-roofed) structures on fire.As for exploding arrows, I am ambivalent. Yes, currently they'd be quite demanding on suspension of disbelief but hopefully one day we'll get semi-esoteric, semi-fantasy things like alchemy and I'd like to see small explosive arrow payloads - even if they'd be basically regular arrows with additional knockback and dealing decent damage against skeletons, having some chance at detonating creepers etc.In case of balancing, I didn't regard bow-draw speed and time you can hold it drawn before your arm gives up because I think they're at the very least ideas worth considering. If there's issues with balancing different types of bows, I think those two stats would help here considerably without making archery much harder for players in general.

Actually, since a few versions seeds don't drop from grass anymore, including wheat seeds if I am not mistaken. Agriculture page on wiki is the only one fully up to date regarding plants as far as I know, so you may have been mislead.

The only really sure way either way for you to get a seed is to find wheat growing in the wild and harvest that.

Potential problem I see with making difficulty depend on longitude is introduction of lack of fairness on bigger multiplayer servers where there are many players who simply have to spread all over the land to get their own place, if they are unwilling to live in a city.

I do agree with addition of more difficult challenges (in case someone wasn't sure after reading my earlier post) but I'd rather do it through rather uniformally spread locations, with possible ties to a biome (not unlike vanilla Minecraft temples, pyramids and so on), reintroduction of pocket/alternate dimensions or creating 'semi-biomes' of somewhat different mechanics (part of the otherwise-regular forest, where sturdy trees that cannot be cut down with axe weaker than a steel one and are resistant to fire cover the skies, where permanently aggresive spiders spawn and undead roam but also treasures are strewn and unique plants grow).

I'd agree with the sentiment of fighting being more of a tool than intended gameplay style. As mentioned above, such skills could technically work but I am rather worried it would create more issues - even if some subtle - than how much fun they'd be.

I simply don't like encouraging people to kill stuff. And that'd be what skills would lead to, with people wiping stuff out and seeking targets to increase their skills. It'd also would decrease worth of tactics and player's own skill, as combatants in addition to better equipment would rather depend on thousands of farmed and killed zombies to give them a boost in combat.

In addition, by creating certain balance issues (either starting player would be too weak, the skill wouldn't matter and would be just a waste of development time or experienced player would be a killing machine - none of those options good) it would bring certain disturbance to otherwise well-working element of the game and didn't enrich the world much.

Thus, I'd think twice before even considering addition of fighting-affecting skills and if someone would decide to do them, do it very carefully.

Alright, one by one.

Hello, Maga, nice thread you have here. Despite connection to other suggestions, it's quite original. I don't think you should worry much about how new of an user you are. I'd like to believe that at least most users here are mature enough to judge posts by their inherent intelligence and content, rather than by the post counter next to them.

I do really like the general idea - archery and bow-making are very primitive and crude in comparison with systems such as smithing, which is kind of the shame because there's plenty of potential and fun to be had. I like the fact that the thread offers several recipes and a bit more complex crafting, with different bows and arrows to both make bows in general more useful and to provide variety for different players (and even playstyles, to a degree!)

However, there's also a few issues I see with the suggestion, not letting myself get swayed by length of OP post otherwise offering quite a few, as mentioned, great ideas.

I understand that Maga is quite interested in the subject and so tries to make a suggestion that would do the craft justice but in a few elements, it's simply going too far. While bow-making simulator may appeal to some players, for some it will only enforce certain elements that will be redundant and simply not fun. For example, bows as they are in-game with regular use lose their durability relatively fast, fast enough to be useful but needing replacement with extended use. While this value can be adjusted, I very much dislike additional decay/brittleness for something that is meant to serve a long time. Those who employ bows regularly won't need additional time limit for the use of their bow, those who do not I doubt will find any challenge or entertainment rather than annoyance in equipment that progressively gets worse with time. It will be simply bad, very bad.

The other thing I dislike quite much and which is quite commonly considered simply a bad design decision is addition of items just for this particular crafting that would be otherwise useless. There are already complains and suggestions for using gems, showing up all the time - some of them good, some of the bad but all of them underlining how much of a waste it is to add particular type of items that have only a single use and how many people may be annoyed by ignored potential. Here, we have several news trees, ores, animal body parts, crafted items and so on. While trees aren't a problem as they may be used in currently-implemented ways, adding new ones for the sake of having additional bow material rubs me the wrong way. The same with having items which will be useless and bothersome if I won't want to make a bow. I like how crafting is made in a mod mentioned above, where number of new items is kept to minimum, depending more on using current content - and what new there is - is mostly for user's convenience. Some of it may seem simplistic (if not oversimplified and wrong) to someone actually dabbling IRL in bow-making, but it's practical and does it's job well.

So, with all respect for the effort made in the suggestion, I'd rather have crafting and necessary elements for the bow somewhat limited and streamlined, possibly with incorporation of new ones in time - only if range of other uses for them (that'd be an entertaining addition to the game) will be provided. Especially since adding it would be a lot of work yet a pain in the butt after making a few bows, at least for most casual players. The same as it could be with metallurgy - ore-processing and smithing is quite a complex activity requiring far more many 'steps' and tools but overt realism would only hurt what we have right now.

Different stats for the bows are nice. I like how you wouldn't use two different bows exactly the same way. But again, I am uncertain about a few things. Things like crossbows I already mentioned as per ores and other such elements (though, personally, I do find crossbows to be quite different from bows, at least in handling and later in the history - making, so I'd think twice between adding this tier of bow in general). Decay I also regarded. Accuracy, yes - I see some problem here.

Pardon me, maybe it's simply I (and everyone I saw playing Minecraft and not regularly using a bow without longer period of a break ever) but it already uses some skill to actually hit medium and long-distance targets and I had to have a few hours of gameplay behind my belt before I was relatively proficient (meaning being able to hit targets at varied distance and elevation without wasting several arrows needed to adjust the aim). Though that is not a problem. However, while I am sure there would possibly be some manic fans of archery who'd want to be rare elite for status and whatnot, making every other player to be forced to shoot stuff like short bow point-blank (and I assure you, if people have problems aiming with bows NOW, that's what we'd get) would be horrible and easy turn-off from this whole aspect of the gameplay, a feature less-able players would be nearly barred from.

I also voiced certain uncertainty (and now I'll voice my like for oxymorons) about making fighting-related activities into skills. Aside from encouraging whole 'kill kill kill' grinding attitude and creating bigger dissonance (and less fair fights) between different players, where player's skill gets lesser and lesser value while arbitrary in-game skill and chosen equipment becomes most important it also makes the activity lack fun in early moments of the game, where such weapons either would already have to start as powerful (which makes the progression and alternative designs/'models' of the item hardly matter) or bring lot of irritation to players who won't be able to shoot a tree few blocks in front of them. No, I really doubt fighting skills are a good idea.

Beside those, I see no real issues that couldn't be resolved and, again, I do think that aforementioned aspects aside, this is a good suggestion.

Work on mod is progressing, some models for animals and stuff are in (or it's maybe me who didn't play vanilla since too long and missed the bears?), updates are inconsistent in when they are out but that's fine as there are different kinds of changes and amount of content per update so some simply take more work than others. You do get a slew of updates allowing you to play relatively non-buggy game most of the time between major version releases, so it should be okay.

Other than that, feel free to calm down, people. TFC is a free project (barring completely voluntary donations) with seldom any obligations toward players (beyond common decency of promising stuff and then delivering it). Should there be a period that there's little of updates (let's be honest, there are, for good or bad reasons) taking a break from it and playing something else is completely viable choice.

No point of getting angry, bashing, counter-bashing, accussing each other and generally making a mess here. I am not sure if this thread should keep going in this form or if it wouldn't be better for everyone involved if it'd just get closed now as it's hardly productive.

That really applies to all animals.

I'd generally be all for standardization of all containers. In some other recent thread it was already suggested for ceramic vessels to be openable by right-click which would require them to behave like chests. I am all for it, including the need for vessels to be placable, whole-block-covering containers, maybe even 3d ones. I would like something the same for straw baskets - not necessarily as pre-clay items (though probably they should be less useful, if only because materials for a straw basket would be readily available and easy to acquire), but an alternative to clay vessel.

To be happy? Because of the fact such containers wouldn't stack as 4 per tile anymore, I'd increase vessel capacity to about 6 items, make basket hold 3 stacks of small items but without food-preservation qualities of clay vessel and make them chest-like items.

Those containers should be worse than chests, that's why still quite limited capacity. But making them easier to interact with and taking need to juggle them around when I need to take an item out and don't remember which of the identical vessels holds it would be very nice.

If you meant something like leather armor reinforced by metal parts, sure - why not.I am not sure about pockets though. I am willing to say that current inventory I wouldn't mind to stay the same way thorough the whole game - it's big, allowing multiple blocks but it is still small enough to require use of containers at some point.

In all honesty, I wouldn't mind one, bigger, maybe 3d vessel that I'd be able to drop and use like a regular chest (though I'd hope that capacity of such would be at least marginally increased then). Even if it would take space for 4 vessels now, I think it'd still be far more practical comfortable in use than how it is now.

That is bad solution, I am afraid. Temporarily it actually was like this and - I'd risk saying, rightfully so - it caused a bit of an uproar. Grains on their, at least in some cases like wheat are perfectly edible and actually considered part of the diet of prehistoric cultures.

Other than that, I do agree that it wou dbe nice if different types of alcohol would be back (possibly with different intoxication strength and effects), but I'd rather have some way of using edibles such as grain in crafting coded, for proper grain -> alcohol processing.