Damjancd

Moved to a winterless, eternal summer area 2 years ago. Singapore is 30 degrees +/- 4, all the time. I don't even remember what snow felt like.

Anyway I got obsessed with everything cold. Listening to cold music (Diablo 2 soundtrack, Biosphere, Brian Eno), watching cold movies etc.

Even bought a massive ventilator and AC's simulate eternal winter in the house. Got sick a few times but it's worth it.

I've been waiting for the body temperature update on TFC but as it seems it will arrive after I dissolve into hot and humid matter, I set out to create my own winter survival experience. 

The Idea
Superhard winter survival within an eternal winter place, with very little food, barely any fish caught, doing anything requires immense effort, even digging takes quite a long while.

Essentially, each block built, each piece of wood cut, should be a massive accomplishment and should hold a story of it's own. 

The entire world is blanketed with snow, temperatures are hellishly cold and there's barely any resources anywhere. Humans are the only ones left alive. It's harsh harsh survival. Unfairly harsh. Every second survived represents a tiny victory. 

How?
With the help of some good folks over here, I installed Enviromine into TFC and modified it so torches emit some heat.
I dropped the temperature of most biomes to barely survivable. You die very quickly if you are not within range of a heat source.

Unfinished business?
A whole lot, this is an embryo of an addon. Ideas are welcomed as long as they adhere to the SURVIVAL, HARDCORE, WINTER aspects of the addon.

Unfortunately I've only managed to make torches emit heat. The idea is to make torches a mild but fairly easy way to stay warm enough so you don't die. The main method to stay warm would be trees. Player will be forced to hunt for trees all the time. This forces a certain nomadism and necessity to travel all the time. But traveling is hard. 

The hope is that I will figure out how to make campfires emit heat ONLY when they are fed wood. This will be the main way to stay heated. It will provide ample heat to stay healthy and warm, and cook food. But the fire needs to be fed, constantly. 

HARDCORE, how hardcore? 
Very. The addon should initially be unplayable for most. Ideally people should die their first 3-4 attempts until they get the tricks on how to stay alive. Free heat from lava and hot springs will not work (eventually heat from lava could burn you, so you could get warmer but you will lose health from proximity to gasses and or particles flying, this is just lore, no mechanic other than health damage would be implemented, but it needs to exist so there's balance in the winter)

Technology

Barely any is used. The player barely rises above the basics and if he does, it would require much dedication and smarts. The more primitive gameplay the better.

How can I help?
Are you a Minecraft programmer? Can you do some code in MC? Can you work with other people and have some ideas shot down while others accepted? PM me and we will go from there.
Are you a texture creator or even modeler? PM
Do you have an awesome idea that would work great within the context of the addon? Write it right here.
Do you live somewhere cold? Good job, I like you already.
Do you know of a quick way to decrease temperature everywhere in TFC? Please do tell. 


 

You could've not told me and I could've donated

But seriously, if the entire process is a bit more packaged and prepared, people might be ready to donate more. 
I might be saying this from a purely subjective viewpoint and a viewpoint from pitching other games, not mods. So there's a large possibility that I'm an idiot

Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the suggestions forum?(Yes/No): Yes
Answering "no" to the above question will result in your post being deleted.


Please do realize that this is not meant to insult any of the devs nor the players, but kickstarter like early access has worked quite well from what I can observe AND from my experience with my video game. This is a tried and tested structure to bring more attention to a project and satisfy extremely passionate followers that are ready to put up with a clunky early build. 

Could this be done for TFC2? 

 

@DcNdrew would you by any chance be ok for me to bother you a bit about this in PM? I'm willing to give it another dedicated go, and if it works, I will add a guide on how to do this on the forum. 

I actually installed envriomine a few months ago. Managed to make torches emanate heat and if you are not close to one, you die after a while. But the numbers were funked up and unsynced with the ones from Terrafirma. @kittychanley it's quite unfortunate that good mods, excellent ideas and steps forwards, just die off because the developers decided to keep it closed source and not share it with the community. Sharing with the community is just about the most sure way that the mod will continue having a worldwide impact. I've seen too many excellent MC mods that say "Developers became busy with real life, they had 20 kids and a small war happened, so they will cease developing". Even more sad is that they didn't even get to see the actual impact of their more complete ideas. It could've fired off a renaissance in Minecraft modding if they either stuck to it enough or at least unleashed the beast before closing shop.

I'm really not sure where exactly to post this. I know that posting is discouraged generally through all the rules, so if I'm making a mistake, please direct me to the place where I should post this. I searched the forums for this topic before posting and I'm writing this in the positive constructive hope that it could help something someone. This mod http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/wip-mods/1443165-discontinued-1-7-2-survivalist-mod-1-4-1-a#contents has integrated body temperature and crafting clothes fairly ok from what it seems. They've discontinued the development but code could be still used maybe? Hopefully?  

@Djakuta, that's really cool. Maybe it's possible to get together a bunch of stuff tweaks and changes that make up a much more grueling, slower, harsher survival in TFC?

It's much harder to mine and move. Something close to realistic right? Much more than flat terrain and tunnellable mashed potato mountains.

It does look freaking awesome. Did you guys manage to make No Cubes mod work on TFC? I'm failing at it badly. It doesn't even start. It's in the mods folder, but it doesn't react at all.And the really awesome thing with this is that it forces you to terraform so you can move faster. Exploration means more effort on players part and seeds, rocks sticks aren't always easily visible. Can anyone help me out on installing this with TFC?

It works!! Hooray. For those that are interested more in what my frankenstein halfassed mutation of TFC + Enviro body temp does, continue reading, for the rest, well....I managed to make the torches give off heat locally, and since torches are a resource you have to constantly gather  (the run out after a while too), it makes for a GREAT dynamic and increased realistic difficulty. So Enviromine temperature works, a bit wonky, but works. When it rains, you are fucked, if you stay at night, outside, without a source of heat, you are fucked.Now I wanted a really difficulty experience, so I regenerated a new world until I hit home run with a winter world with barely any food (only 3 pigs). So my playthrough is definitely quite difficult. I will tweak some more stuff, but I will mainly focus on finding a way to get heated up by a primitive fire, the one made with 5 sticks in total. I'm going to stick to the primitive age for a longer while, and try to be a hunter or forager. I had to enable specifically in config files, about the torches letting heat off, and about the specific biomes having really low temperatures. It's slowly developing into something extremely fun for me. Thanks to everyone for their great advise.  

@Kittychanley he's right about this "once you are set in your shelter, the game suddenly drops in difficulty. Food is always there, mobs can be kept outside or avoided by sleeping."

Back on the more constructive and productive side, I seem to have managed to make EnviroMine mod work with TFC. I mean I just installed it, disabled all the hunger + insanity + food decay aspects of it, and retained only Ambient body temperature. This didn't work exactly perfectly since I think there's some conflict with the celsius numbers where it says it's 36 degrees, and when it gets to 33, you kind of start to freeze to death. Which I'm fine with, but I'm still discovering if there is consistency, if there is, I can just compensate with the numbers.Enviromine is VERY configurable and I can open it up and set up values for specific biomes (for temperatures) blocks etc. This is of GREAT help for making this kind of work. I'm also trying to install No cubes since it makes minecraft look really natural (Stunning IMHO)  and makes it difficult to run and walk on unrefined terrain. If I solve the ambient temperatures problem, I will try and tackle configs for food availability, I will definitely disable the "as you level up with experience you get better at surviving without food" aspect, and will make crops more tender. I don't know shit about minecraft modding but I dabble in really simple programming so I might find a way :)I also found the EXACT shader that I was dreaming of ( I dreamt of playing TFC with body temperature ) So I'm recreating that too :)Harsh unforgiving survival, here I come. 

@KittyChanley I was holding off playing since I think adding even the simplest body temp. would infuse the game with a radically tough, yet realistic element of challenge that for me, I feel I need right now. I play my own way, single-player mostly. I like the feeling of solitude in terms of survival, and I understand a lot of people play the game their own way, and developers have their own visions (from what I've read of them, I agree on most of them). As I said previously, not telling you how to do the game, just trying to figure out if anyone is out on making a mod, or tweaking the game, or melding it with another mod, that could practically make TFC into that experience. You guys are doing a great project here, and right now, even if you actively don't want it to be, it's 100% the best survival simulator out there. A simulator that actually makes you feel that you live in that specific area and not just superficially resource managing randomly placed resources. (while evading zombies).In terms of what Minecraft is capable of, within the boundaries of modding and technical boundaries, and most of all, within the boundaries of video games in general, Minecraft TFC is absolutely the most visceral virtual survival experience out there, and trust me, I've actively looked for anything better. When people get overly specific about certain aspects of survival, that's not good gameplay, the medium simply doesn't translate well into too much complexity (unlike real life which handles it quite well  ) What I'm saying is that the best survival game, IS the most believable one. Believability is the dampener that enables us to stick to keyboards while at the same time feel that we are trying to survive a harsh and unforgiving nature. Any survival game that doesn't have it, will fail it :)Once I get my Oculus Rift rig going, I'm going to play TFC with or without body temps That's a given. So again, this post was more directed at passionate players tweakers and addon makers, rather than directly at the developers. I know you guys have a bunch on your plate and from what I've seen, I absolutely trust your decisions :)I had absolutely no offense in mind here, on the contrary.

@Djakuta Already starred and liked all on that topic a while ago  

I guess I'm really pumped for the ambient temperatures update and was thinking something alternative, along the same lines. But zombies breaking through walls seems really good since the level of instant safety that you can build easily in TFC is kind of off putting. I'd rather really develop and invest in my domicile until I can be absolutely safe. Primitive gameplay at the beginning really forces you to get to know your surroundings, the ground, the game itself, that's why I'm more interested in the first tiers of tech rather than metal refining and usage. What if some flowers are edible and some aren't, and the visual difference is VERY minute? Something to make you keep an eye on the environment even more. Maybe noticing specific rocks that have metals is even harder now? as in, the graphic doesn't simply show another color. Maybe you need to indirectly extrapolate where useful minerals would be located by looking at the geology of the place, the topography. I'm not saying TFC devs aren't doing a WONDERFUL job, they reinvented Minecraft for me. I don't play other Minecraft now What I'm just freely brainstorming is for simply, realistic and easily applicable ideas that make the world harder to live by forcing you to be more aware of things, pay attention to more details, think ahead, plan ahead etc. Something that leaves you with detailed knowledge of the surrounding through a multitude of experiences. @Terex, sorry for being vague.

While waiting for the fantastically, mind bogglingly transformative temperature update and all the stuff that comes with it, I was thinking of how I could lightly mod the game to be more difficult but yet remain realistic. When a game increases difficulty but stays true to a measure of realism, all the actions, all the experiences the little moments become etched in your mind, become very impactful and important, gain relevancy. I've been trying to put off TFC until the ambient temp. update since I want to experience the shock of a much different level of survival, and I was planning to essentially build a memory palace with TFC, a palace with rooms that I'm very familiar with that I can store everyday stuff to remember. It's a well established psychological trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci and I think coupled with the intense experiences that TFC can provide, it's the ideal coupling. What I'm asking is, ignoring this seemingly offtopic wall of text, is to find a relatively simple method to increase difficulty to TFC, without making it artificially difficult. Something that can be lightly programmed, something that would just require a melding of another mod, or something that I can pay someone to program. Any ideas on that? I'm desperate here  I need to remember my shopping list spontaneously and without much effort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeophagyIt helps digestion, has some health benefits but mostly it staves of the psychological effects of hunger as far as I can see.It's an important aspect to have more uses for random things you find in the world, that way the player would learn more about survival, nature and in the end, he'd have more fun.

@Hubertus , you could also interview the shit out of survivalist, and interview hardcore survival game players, analyse similarities, similar conclusions that aren't hardcoded in the game, experiences. Or just compare keywords mentioned, along with a third, non survival  oriented group (control), they all answer the same questions. Just some shitty ideas

Oh god, how am I supposed to exist now, until Body Temp is integrated, when such an immersive feature with the clothes is implemented? Guys I think Terrafirmacraft is going beyond "just a game" into the territory where people will actually learn concrete things, have a better understanding of survival and maybe save some lives one day. It sets up a basic symbolic skeleton where people (not yet familiar with those concepts) can create a base to learn things further on, and the ones that know, can further establish it. To rant a bit more, in such realistic simulations, especially between more people, concrete data and gameplay experiences could actually be used to study some mechanics of survival, group dynamics, low resources human behaviour. I will now sew my mouth up, and tattoo another TFC on my back.

I think that implementing Body Temperature to TFC would bring in the most radically immersive change to gameplay and emphasize the survival element even more intensely.People that want to take it easy will stick to warm mild biomes, hardcore players that want to severely test their survival skills will also have a place in this world.  I admit I have no idea what the obstacles to implementing BT are, and they could be massive, I'm just saying this from a passionate survival game player.Minecraft Survivalist mod already implemented a kind of BT, but I of course anything that TFC does is 10x more detailed, immersive and impactful than the other mods. So naturally it's not that straightforward http://mbssurvivalist.wikia.com/wiki/FeaturesAs far as I know, BT is approximated for release in r0.85What do you guys think? Am I subjectively and unreasonable excited for this feature being implemented in TFC?

The Banner Saga...  

I've always loved games that have really slow starts, and by that  I mean, they don't give you the laser rifle, if ever. The more primitive gameplay, the better. It's also much more rewarding for the later stages, you feel as if you've really earned it, piece by piece. I'd rather take a hell of a long primitive stage, and a shortish advanced stage, than anything else, even quizznos subs. But like the one with bacon.. others can be cool too...

Sharing your excitement... it truly brings Minecraft back from the dead for me. It become a true game with TFC... and the depth that it goes into, especially the new update that is being worked on (body warmth mechanics, complex food preferences, farming complexity) really make this the one true mod for me. 

How do you mean stone tool making is automatic? No knapping? 

That sucks. You can use a VPN to circumvent these obstacles. Cheers from Singapore.