Chest size fix.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

yeah there undisputably needs to be a way to have the pre-nerf chest sizes back, hell i'm on constantly on the verge of figuring out a way to get the metal/crystal chests mod to work with tfcraft.

yes i store too much junk, i'm aware, but why bother telling people "it'll be useful later" if we're just meant to trash it all anyway, what if you want to still be playing the same world when all those useless gems and unsmeltable metals finally do have a use? you'll be screwed or forced to start a new map, that's what and forgive me if i'm wrong, but is disposable worlds a focal point of this mod? because that's news to me.

-1

[Bedgar 13]

Oh man your complaining too darn much. If you want to hog all the useless ores then fine where it the problem? Just make more chests and that’s it. And you’re not screwed if you didn’t keep your ore when they become useful you just need to find the again .

You guys seem to forget that this is a beta, if playing the game is not fun for you because it’s incomplete and your too darn inflexible then just wait until the mod is done.

[cevkiv 156]

Oh man your complaining too darn much. If you want to hog all the useless ores then fine where it the problem? Just make more chests and that’s it. And you’re not screwed if you didn’t keep your ore when they become useful you just need to find the again .

You guys seem to forget that this is a beta, if playing the game is not fun for you because it’s incomplete and your too darn inflexible then just wait until the mod is done.

I have first-hand experience in the process of designing and programming a computer game. I am far more aware than you seem to be of exactly what is involved in the process.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

Oh man your complaining too darn much. If you want to hog all the useless ores then fine where it the problem? Just make more chests and that’s it. And you’re not screwed if you didn’t keep your ore when they become useful you just need to find the again .

You guys seem to forget that this is a beta, if playing the game is not fun for you because it’s incomplete and your too darn inflexible then just wait until the mod is done.

i'm playing the mod because it's enjoyable, i like the idea and vanilla is far too easy, i'm fine with bugs and balance changing patch to patch, but i've always been of the opinion that vanilla chests were too small in the first place.

and to directly answer your question, the problem is if you want to keep the same world for a very long time, if you've already dug up all the useless gems and unsmeltable ores then a few years down the road or months or however long, well... good luck finding any left if you just trashed them.

I have first-hand experience in the process of designing and programming a computer game. I am far more aware than you seem to be of exactly what is involved in the process.

what the heck does this have to do with how difficult it is to write and publish code? trust me, someday i'd like to at least start work on my own mod or maybe collaborate with people i play normally with, but that's a year if not a few years at least off until i think minecraft is stable enough to bother writing anything much and i could still use some practice anyway.

trust me though, i appreciate that tfcraft is in development and that we get new builds multiple times in the same week, if anything in fact i think i love that bioxx updates so frequently, there's nothing more boring than a mod that only gets updated once every two or three months.

[Bedgar 13]

Ok first of all, your world will likely be incompatible in a few years. Second, you cannot dig up all the useless gems and unsmeltable ores in an infinite world. Third I did say there was a simple solution and that is to make more chests.

I have first-hand experience in the process of designing and programming a computer game. I am far more aware than you seem to be of exactly what is involved in the process.

I’m sorry but I fail to see your point, could to explain how that is related? To me it seems you’re just trying to put yourself in a position of authority for no reason.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

Ok first of all, your world will likely be incompatible in a few years. Second, you cannot dig up all the useless gems and unsmeltable ores in an infinite world. Third I did say there was a simple solution and that is to make more chests.

I’m sorry but I fail to see your point, could to explain how that is related? To me it seems you’re just trying to put yourself in a position of authority for no reason.

1. first of all, sure enough, but neither of us can say for sure until that happens.

2. not sure how you reason this.

3. well that just goes without saying, but i want to have room left in my buildings for things besides chests as well and it's incredibly annoying to have to organize too many of them too.

[Bedgar 13]

1. first of all, sure enough, but neither of us can say for sure until that happens.

2. not sure how you reason this.

3. well that just goes without saying, but i want to have room left in my buildings for things besides chests as well and it's incredibly annoying to have to organize too many of them too.

1. True but complaining because of something that has a slight chance of happening in the far future that might be an inconvenience seems silly to me.

2. Well the same reason you can’t count to infinity.

3. Have a building for the sole purpose of storing unimplemented ores. There is no reason to have them always at hand right?

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

1. True but complaining because of something that has a slight chance of happening in the far future that might be an inconvenience seems silly to me.

2. Well the same reason you can’t count to infinity.

3. Have a building for the sole purpose of storing unimplemented ores. There is no reason to have them always at hand right?

1. fair enough, i suppose, still though, i didn't think disposable worlds were a focal point of this mod.

2. neither can minecraft, if you move far enough the world will become unplayable because the save corrupts because of it.

3. plenty of reasons to have them on hand or at least as close as possible to your forge and bloomery.

[Bedgar 13]

1. fair enough, i suppose, still though, i didn't think disposable worlds were a focal point of this mod.

2. neither can minecraft, if you move far enough the world will become unplayable because the save corrupts because of it.

3. plenty of reasons to have them on hand or at least as close as possible to your forge and bloomery.

1. It's not a focal point your trying to make it be by using a scenario that most likely is not going to happened as an argument.

2. Funny I’ve never seen that bug and I can’t find any mention of it anywhere. Well even if it does exist I’m sure it’s going to be fixed in a few years.

3. Well then you will just have to wait for them to become useful before you melt them. Is it really that hard to think of stuff like this by yourself?

[cevkiv 156]

The point is that I spent roughly a year of my own time, several hours a day, designing a MUD. This included designing how everything in the game worked, from the lowest levels where I tried (poorly) to optimize my program in assembly, to the high-level stuff of skills and magic and attributes of items. I have a good grasp of what constitutes "good game design" because I stumbled through making one myself and found out on the way exactly what sort of things are bad ideas from first hand experience.

Anything that increases the tedium of a game for no point other than an arbitrary increase in difficulty -- that is, any change in the design of a game that makes it harder for a player to get from point A to point B that does so by simply increasing the amount of "busy work" the player is forced to do instead of requiring more skill on the part of the player is a bad design.

Reducing the size of chest storage makes the game arbitrarily more tedious, because it forces me, for the same amount of storage space, to devote more than three times the amount of volume to a storage area, and approximately three times the amount of time to building said storage area. It does not in any way stop me from storing the same amount of materials as before. It just makes me waste time to do so. That makes it a bad design choice.

A better way would be making chests harder to construct, or adding tiers of chests, with better chests allowing normal amounts of storage space.

Look at it like this:

Say I'm designing an RPG. It's in beta testing.

Furthermore, let us say that each player has 8 slots of "general inventory storage". These slots can hold any kind of item -- weapons, water, food, scrolls, armor, or containers. Containers can hold more items.

Now, let's suppose that when I implemented the container system and pushed that out for testing, I made the standard container size 10 slots, so that a player with 8 containers could carry a maximum of 80 items in their inventory.

Now, players have been playing like this since the container system has been added.

Suddenly, I reduce the size of containers down to 4 slots.

Even if I plan to later add tiers of storage containers (better backpacks, magical backpacks, etc), which hold more than 4 items each, possibly going back up to the original size of 10 items, players would rightly feel frustrated at this change. You never half-ass a feature if you don't have to. It doesn't matter if the new 10-slot backpack in the game requires hard to find components to craft, and is difficult to make -- you do not fundamentally alter that aspect of game play upon which so many people are depending until you have it already to roll out. Firstly, it pisses the players off because they have lost items when the bag size was changed, and now they are able to only store a fraction of what they were before hand, but it also is a poor design because it fails to reward players who are able to or willing to spend the time required to get materials to make bigger bags.

If, when Bioxx had implemented the reduction to chest sizes, he had also added three additional kinds of chests, so we have, say, Tier-0 chests, made out of wood planks, that hold 9 items each, and then Tier-1 chests, made out of wood planks with metal (of any kind) reinforcements at the corners that holds 18 items, and Tier-2 chests, made out of metal (at least iron) solely, then I wouldn't have anywhere near as much of a problem with the design change as I do with the actually implemented design change, because then people like me could still store the same amount of materials in the same amount of space if we were willing to sacrifice extra resources to do so.

As it stands, I cannot store the same amount of materials in the same amount of space no matter what kind of materials I am prepared to sacrifice to do so, and to store the same amount of materials I have to use three times the space, no matter what materials I use.

It limits player choice by arbitrarily restricting something to simulate greater difficulty, without giving the player any option or choice in the matter.

It's a bad design.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

yeah i had to wonder why bioxx nerfed the size instead of making it harder if not impossible to craft tons of them at once and just devote an entire base to storage, it's not like keeping a very large supply of wood is factoring into this at all once you've found your first willow you pretty much have unlimited disposable wood from then on even if you only get one sapling from it.

[cevkiv 156]

yeah i had to wonder why bioxx nerfed the size instead of making it harder if not impossible to craft tons of them at once and just devote an entire base to storage, it's not like keeping a very large supply of wood is factoring into this at all once you've found your first willow you pretty much have unlimited disposable wood from then on even if you only get one sapling from it.

And they keep on talking about, or at least people keep on saying that, this is supposed to be a SMP focused mod. Well guess what: Any group of people on a server creates a warehouse. Every server I have ever played on, modded or not, once you get a group of people together building a town, one of the first things that happens is this:

"Hey, where are we gonna put all this shit?"

"Yeah, I'm running out of space in my house."

"Let's make a warehouse!"

Seriously. That's what happens.

This change does absolutely nothing other than make people waste time.

[Bedgar 13]

The point is that I spent roughly a year of my own time, several hours a day, designing a MUD.

...

It's a bad design.

First of all this "busy work" you’re talking about is called playing minecraft and getting from point a to point b is the point of the game. A game designer in an rpg can "arbitrarily" decide you start with a rusty sword instead of Excalibur and that doesn’t make it bad game design.

He did not set the chest size to 32 then change it to 8. he just dident get around to change it in the first place. And why are you assuming that he plan on adding a chests with 32 slots again? He won’t!

If you had read the change log before you updated you wouldn’t have lost your stuff.

[cevkiv 156]

No, "playing Minecraft" is going out, finding ores, retrieving ores, melting said ores down, making shit out of the ores to get tools, going out to find better ores, etc, etc.

Building a place to store things is part of the game, too.

When you arbitrarily decide to make part of the game take three times as much time for no good reason, that's busy work.

[HidingInTheLight 10]

-snip-

This change does absolutely nothing other than make people waste time.

That can be said about any feature you don't enjoy.

While I do agree that the chest size nerf detracted from my personal enjoyment. I can also understand what the developers are aiming at by reducing the size.

To make my personal gameplay more enjoyable again, I installed the ironchests mod, and flipped on the vanilla conversion recipes. (Tho that wasn't really necessary as I have mostly been using the copper and silver chests, and those work without the config change) I do think the chests from that mod are too large, I'd like to see a TFC version of it. You'd be able to step up the size slowly using all the different metal types available in TFC, add a row to the chest with each step up the metal progression.

[The Nameless Name 9]

I understand all of these Ideas but isn't this topic called "Chest Size Fix"? Not "Any storage unit that you can think of that you want to suggest post here so that the title barely has any relativity to the posts within" I think that a poll for the option of allowing a setting to change the chest size is necessary after 4 PAGES OF THIS. There really needs to be one.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

And they keep on talking about, or at least people keep on saying that, this is supposed to be a SMP focused mod. Well guess what: Any group of people on a server creates a warehouse. Every server I have ever played on, modded or not, once you get a group of people together building a town, one of the first things that happens is this:

"Hey, where are we gonna put all this shit?"

"Yeah, I'm running out of space in my house."

"Let's make a warehouse!"

Seriously. That's what happens.

This change does absolutely nothing other than make people waste time.

personally i've yet to build dedicated warehouses.

still haven't in tfcraft even after the chest size nerf if i'm honest, i'm not sure if it was intended or not but we did kind of get a trade off buff to them being able to put double chests directly above each other and aside from tfcraft i'm mainly playing and hosting tekkit so we typically setup a recycling chest, a smelting chest along with some general storage ones and just use redstone engines to automate it.

maybe if the forge would double as an item incinerator? hmm... interesting idea from that too, if you incinerate a sort of broken metal tool or armor maybe you could get some of the metal back as long as you had a ceramic mold to catch it?

[Jed1314 420]

No, "playing Minecraft" is going out, finding ores, retrieving ores, melting said ores down, making shit out of the ores to get tools, going out to find better ores, etc, etc.

Building a place to store things is part of the game, too.

When you arbitrarily decide to make part of the game take three times as much time for no good reason, that's busy work.

Perhaps some patience is required on your part ? It is common knowledge that Bioxx is interested in implementing alternative storage methods. He could have left the chest Nerf for an "inventory overhaul patch" perhaps, but he didn't. Do you really expect him to waste time removing a feature so he can re add it later when it inconveniences you less ?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

cevkiv, what you fail to realize is the point that Bedgar made

The vanilla chest size was a 'bug' of sorts. It was supposed to be the current size right from the start, but bioxx just hadn't gotten around to it. The new chest sizing was not a nerf, it was a core part of the mod changes, in the same manner as all the new stone types. Just pretend that TFC has had these sizes since initial release

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

if i were willing to suspend disbelief to that extent in the face of damning evidence to the contrary, i'd be a religious man, eternal.

[cevkiv 156]

cevkiv, what you fail to realize is the point that Bedgar made

The vanilla chest size was a 'bug' of sorts. It was supposed to be the current size right from the start, but bioxx just hadn't gotten around to it. The new chest sizing was not a nerf, it was a core part of the mod changes, in the same manner as all the new stone types. Just pretend that TFC has had these sizes since initial release

That still doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

if i were willing to suspend disbelief to that extent in the face of damning evidence to the contrary, i'd be a religious man, eternal.

please do cite this evidence, because tiny chests were a planned feature pretty much from the get-go

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

vanilla, iron chests mod, how wrong do you want to be? i can keep going.

[BenQuincy 1]

This mod is designed to make Minecraft more difficult, Im fine with all of you people disliking this but it suits the topic of the mod and makes it more difficult to play witch makes it a bit more fun in my opinion at least. This way is much more realistic although i do agree with the fact that 8 blocks of wood should make 2 chests.

[Alestance 39]

You guys keep overlooking one of the core design directions that I remember being tossed around a while back. The only reason complaining about chest sizes right now is even happening is because of lack of reasonable transportation. Minecarts are supposed to be the answer to the problems you're complaining about, and they haven't been implemented into the mod just yet.

All of these problems can be fixed with a minecart infrastructure.