Enchanting (Gemforging, it's a minigame, and it takes skill !)

[Jed1314 420]

This is mainly directed at Dunk and the other poor developers who must be tired of seeing me suggest things (Especially when I am adding to the veritable heap of enchanting suggestions): Appologies, I couldn’t resist

A prologue:

He is hunched over the desk. The very air around him sparks with energy. He is staring intently at a perfect diamond, which sits in the centre of the table, vibrating violently. He seems to be directing a set of tendrils, extending from the gem to a beautiful sword of red steel sitting next to it. Suddenly, the man’s concentration breaks. He turns to you, with fear in his eyes, and tells you to run. You turn your back but, just as you are about to move, you are thrown forwards with massive force. Awaking to find a smoldering crater in the lab, where the table, and the man, had once sat, you wonder what you had just witnessed. You are determined to find out...

Basic Premise: Adding a new enchantment method “Gem Forgingâ€.

New Features: The Gemforge Directing the flow of elemental energy is the name of the game

Enchantments

Use of existing features: GemsThis time I didn’t forget about them

Gemforging - An explanation:

This is for all you fans of decent “hard†magic systems. What, did you really think I’d expect you to take it for granted that this just “worked†?

This has little bearing on the mechanics of the suggestion, I just needed to clearly define it. I repeat for the sake of my own sanity: Yes, this may be confusing, but much of it is "lore" and has nothing to do with how the suggestion will function in game. In short, you don't need to know most of this, I just figured you might want to.

First Presumption: This is based on a fantastical presumption that gems contain 4 “Energiesâ€, in the form of Primal Earth, Wind, Fire and Water (breaking the mould there ).

Second Presumption: These are not present anywhere else in the world as gems have reached a particular balance of the 4 primal energies.

First Rule: Any sentient being (with the exception of the undead) can use a gemforge in theory, as it relies on the fifth Primal Element (life), and it’s ability to bend the other four. It takes skill, however, to do this. They are only capable of manipulating one Primal at a time.

Second Rule: A gemforge is necessary to break the bond between the 4 elements in the gem, allowing the elements to be manipulated.

Third Rule: Overextracting any primal energy by more than a certain amount will cause a catastrophic explosion, due to the negative energy levels de-stabilizing the gem.

Fourth Rule: The power of the enchantment is directly proportional to the similarity between the Primal energies present in the sword, to those in the gem before they were moved.

Fifth Rule: Primals will always try to flow back to the gem when they are not being pushed.

The Basic (very basic) Explanation of How The Forge Will Work: There will be 4 gauges, and 4 corresponding buttons. A fifth button titled “Seal†or something similar will also be there. Each gauge will represent a Primal. After inserting a gem and an enchantable item into the appropriate slots, a set of guides will appear on the gauges, they will cover a small area, and will go (from bottom to top) yellow, green and then red. When you press a Primal button, the corresponding bar will fill slightly. As soon as this has happened, it will start to empty again. The aim of the “minigame†is to get the bars into the green (or yellow) zones and then hit the “seal†button to finish the enchantment. If any of the bars enter the red zone, a tnt like explosion will happen, presumably killing you, and wrecking a bit of your house. Risky business this enchanting stuff ….

The type of gem will dictate the enchantment, while the quality will decide the maximum level of enchantment that it is possible to achieve.

Read this, if nothing else:

Unusually for me, I want a degree of feedback on this before I put through the suggestion in its full form. Please consider the above explanation. If people are interested, I will fully explain, flesh out and illustrate the mechanics. If they are not, it is too much work to waste effort typing it all out and doing the photoshop legwork. I would say try and be constructive, but there’s nothing to construct upon yet

[sdbaynham 57]

This is a really cool idea, but I'm not sure it fits the flavor of the mod, or the I guess, premise, which is that TFC seems to reject Minecraft's strategy of expanding the power curve upward, in favor of deepening the existing height. One thing I would love to see for gems is the ability to encrust stuff with gems for decorative purposes. More things like the chisel system, please!

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

While i do like the fact that this takes skill and can be very risky, i see a little flaw -unless i understood you wrong ._.- : There are more enchantments, both already in game and suggested, than gems to place them in. The gems have more than one enchantment situable for them, or we have to choose which enchantments dump and which of them keep?

Also, how you make the gem forge? The gauges are included in it, or you have to make them separately and attach them to the sides of the gem forge? if you have to make them, how?

Yes, i'm interested so little info, and yet so much need to know the rest!

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Beautifully original. You should try your hand at writing

I think, though that enchanting should be kept on the back burner for the moment until the team figures out what sort of direction they want to go in

[Sasqaucth 45]

I like it.

[Jed1314 420]

While i do like the fact that this takes skill and can be very risky, i see a little flaw -unless i understood you wrong ._.- : There are more enchantments, both already in game and suggested, than gems to place them in. The gems have more than one enchantment situable for them, or we have to choose which enchantments dump and which of them keep?

Also, how you make the gem forge? The gauges are included in it, or you have to make them separately and attach them to the sides of the gem forge? if you have to make them, how?

Yes, i'm interested so little info, and yet so much need to know the rest!

I'm on my mobile, so I will need to respond to these posts individually.

I'll start here (obviously )

I hesitantly suggest the easiest answer would be to add more gems

The gem forge crafting process is something I will work on in the next few days. As far as the gauges are concerned, they are a GUI element.(from a lore perspective, the feeling of primal levels is innate in sentient beings, describable as a sort of "sixth sense" so to speak )

I feel like I will take this forward, but part of me awaits the judgment of dunk. If the devs aren't interested, I'm afraid your questions will remain unanswered

[Jed1314 420]

Beautifully original. You should try your hand at writing

I think, though that enchanting should be kept on the back burner for the moment until the team figures out what sort of direction they want to go in

I am genuinely touched

I have considered it in the past, but if I am honest, I am far too scared to write anything large. I might set up a small fantasy setting and try for some short stories (which I would probably subject you poor people to in the "off topic" section :L)

As far as the second part of your post is concerned, I agree. I just wanted to get this out there for fear of me adding it too late. I know these things can often be planned well in advance

[Delta 7x 0]

Well, although it'd take the sense of realism of this Mod out (Which is a shame because I think Gemforging sounds pretty badass), I would LOVE to see a Mod like this come out (I know Thaumcraft kinda has this on obtainable weapons/tools which isn't too bad, but ehhh...). What was really interesting was the introduction, that had gotten me really interested in reading all of it xD...

Though back on-topic, I really would like to see some sort of enchanting in the Mod, or at least a new form of Alchemy just to change up the repetitiveness out of the mod. Although, I might have misunderstood you a bit since I got a little confused when you mentioned the word "Mini-game", very noteworthy and worth looking into though!

[Jed1314 420]

Well, although it'd take the sense of realism of this Mod out (Which is a shame because I think Gemforging sounds pretty badass), I would LOVE to see a Mod like this come out (I know Thaumcraft kinda has this on obtainable weapons/tools which isn't too bad, but ehhh...). What was really interesting was the introduction, that had gotten me really interested in reading all of it xD...

Though back on-topic, I really would like to see some sort of enchanting in the Mod, or at least a new form of Alchemy just to change up the repetitiveness out of the mod. Although, I might have misunderstood you a bit since I got a little confused when you mentioned the word "Mini-game", very noteworthy and worth looking into though!

Thanks for being so positive about this suggestion

As I understand it, the dev team are implementing enchanting and the nether (at least) so, hopefully, this wouldn't be that out of place

I refered to it as a minigame, but it is basically a skill based crafting method (like blacksmithing )

[sdbaynham 57]

Well, hell, if enchanting's going in anyway, then this should absolutely be considered.

[GCountach 39]

First off, your opening paragraph was great. Really pulls you in.

In regards to your idea though, I'm a little confused. I'm assuming the goal is to "extract primal energy" by doing a balancing act between the 4 energies. Some things though I was hoping to clarify with you:

1.) When you are able to extract this energy, where does it go? Is there a tool/weapon/armor slot in the GUI that it's pulled into or is it put into jars or... ? On your fourth you say say:

The power of the enchantment is directly proportional to the similarity between the Primal energies present in the sword, to those in the gem before they were moved.

I would assume this means enchantments are attached directly to a item and you are able to somehow add more and more energy to a weapon/tool/armor, which I assume would increase it's enchantment power. Also, going by the 4th rule, you couldn't just keep throwing chipped gems at a weapon to get it's best enchantment, as you'd need the best quality gems to get the best level enchantments. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

1a.) Are you able to use multiple gems on an item at all to improve its enchantment, or is it a one shot thing based off gem quality? As I think about it, I would say it has to be a one shot thing, else you risk an exploit with people reenchanting nearly broken items... assuming the programming can't keep the damage value.

2.) With there being different types of gems in the game, how will that factor into the equation? I'm assuming there's just one big bank of "primal energy", so would for example rubies say be less stable but higher energy or is there something I'm missing here? Do the gem types themselves determine what enchantment you get? Can I assume the quality of the gem determines how much energy you get out of it?

3.) Is the explosion size related to the quality of the gem? Logically, I would think it would or at least should, but I didn't see it stated. A chipped ruby going into the red shouldn't hurt nearly as much as a flawless (or whatever the best ones are).

4.) Where's the challenge in the mini-game? Because of the 5th rule, I assume if you open the GUI and just leave it alone, nothing happens. If you tap one energy once, it'll slowly float back to this point and then it'll be stable again. If that's true, surely one energy is related to another or something. Otherwise the name of the game is click all the buttons as fast as you can before you get into the red....

In case I'm coming off harsh, I'm not intending it. The concept seems broad currently, but I do like the ground work and think it could be a viable addition to the mod.

[Jed1314 420]

First off, your opening paragraph was great. Really pulls you in.

In regards to your idea though, I'm a little confused. I'm assuming the goal is to "extract primal energy" by doing a balancing act between the 4 energies. Some things though I was hoping to clarify with you:

1.) When you are able to extract this energy, where does it go? Is there a tool/weapon/armor slot in the GUI that it's pulled into or is it put into jars or... ? On your fourth you say say: I would assume this means enchantments are attached directly to a item and you are able to somehow add more and more energy to a weapon/tool/armor, which I assume would increase it's enchantment power. Also, going by the 4th rule, you couldn't just keep throwing chipped gems at a weapon to get it's best enchantment, as you'd need the best quality gems to get the best level enchantments. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

1a.) Are you able to use multiple gems on an item at all to improve its enchantment, or is it a one shot thing based off gem quality? As I think about it, I would say it has to be a one shot thing, else you risk an exploit with people reenchanting nearly broken items... assuming the programming can't keep the damage value.

2.) With there being different types of gems in the game, how will that factor into the equation? I'm assuming there's just one big bank of "primal energy", so would for example rubies say be less stable but higher energy or is there something I'm missing here? Do the gem types themselves determine what enchantment you get? Can I assume the quality of the gem determines how much energy you get out of it?

3.) Is the explosion size related to the quality of the gem? Logically, I would think it would or at least should, but I didn't see it stated. A chipped ruby going into the red shouldn't hurt nearly as much as a flawless (or whatever the best ones are).

4.) Where's the challenge in the mini-game? Because of the 5th rule, I assume if you open the GUI and just leave it alone, nothing happens. If you tap one energy once, it'll slowly float back to this point and then it'll be stable again. If that's true, surely one energy is related to another or something. Otherwise the name of the game is click all the buttons as fast as you can before you get into the red....

In case I'm coming off harsh, I'm not intending it. The concept seems broad currently, but I do like the ground work and think it could be a viable addition to the mod.

Good questions all of them.

1) Extract is not quite the correct word. Think of the gem and the item at two seperate "containers" for Primal energy. You are taking the energy from the gem and pushing it "into" the item. In order for the enchantment to work, the levels of the Primals must reach the approximate gauge values. These gauge values represent the level of the Primals in the gem before you began pushing. In essence, your goal is to empty the gem as much as possible, while maintaining the same ratio of Primals.

You would indeed need the best level of gem to acheive the highest level of enchantment. This can be explained easily in lore term:

Low quality gems are impure and do not contain nearly the same level of Primal energy as flawless gems (which are essentially purely Primal). This means that there is less energy to transmit to the item, hence less power in the enchantment. It would be analogous to having a 3/4 drained battery and trying to charge an infinite capacitor. A fully charged battery will always give the capacitor more energy. Does that answer the question ?

1a) You can't put multiple gems into an enchanted item. Again this is due to lore restrictions. When pushing the Primal energy into the item, it will constantly flow back into the gem. This is because it is no longer held in it's state of stable, bonded equilibrium. When you "seal" an item, you use your own "Life" energy to bind the other Primals to the item. This effectively blocks any further energy transfers to or from the item. In a similar vein, you can't enchant gems, as they have a naturally sealed state of equilibrium.

2) The gems determine the type of enchantment because each gem has a different balance of Primal energy. There are four "pure" gems (they are referred to as "pure", but they still contain other Primals as pure energy does not stabalize into gems):

Saphire, Ruby, Emerald and Diamond. These represent Water, Fire, Earth and Air respectively. All the others are varients upon these, with the colour indicating the Primal(s) which it leans most towards. Each enchantment in the game has a distinct required balance. As an example (this is not a feature, just an example) to make flying boots, one would need a diamond, as flying boots are the most "air" orientated enchantment. The quality of the diamond would determine the flight time. A more hybrid enchantment, such as (again, just an example this one from the community !) "Carbonisation", which would turn wood into charcoal, would require a balance between the fire and earth Primal (as charcoal requires both fire and earth to be made). A gem for this would be topaz (based on it's brown/red colouration, which would be roughly the colour of red and green mixed in equal levels). You understand where I am going with this ?

3) Yes, as energy levels escalate, so will the risks. (I didn't want to expand too much in the OP as it was more of a "should I pursue this ?"

4) The challenge in the minigame is to balance your pushing of all 4 elements (or clicking of the 4 buttons), so that you can get all of the bars in the green, then seal it. This is made more difficult as the green zone will be (reasonably) small and positioned below the red. This means you can't simply over-fill all the bars and wait for them to drop to the correct level, you must pay equal attention to all of the bars to get it right. Also, as the quality of the enchantment you aim for increases, so does the risk of it all going seriously wrong, since a perfect enchantment is where the gem has been totally emptied and an explosion can be caused by a tiny amount of negative Primal energy.

I hope this answers any questions you had If you have any more, ask away !

Edit: A couple of typos there which I know I made but can't find. The highest gem quality is actually "Exquisite" and the instance where you higlighted sword was a typo for the more general "Item"

2nd Edit: PS, sorry it took so long to reply, I am working on an exhaustive document explaining the rules of Primal energy in general. Eternals comment has given me the nads to take a shot at short story writing, and primal energy is the basis for all magic in the universe. Helps to get the rules laid out, so you don't resort to Deus Ex Machina all the time

[GCountach 39]

No, that answers all my questions extremely well. I believe we are both on the same page here and I appreciate your time answer them. My confusion in the mini-game was based off the coloring. I figured (incorrectly it would seem) that it would go stable->[insert random colors here]--> green-->yellow-->red. If you were aiming for green, it seemed like you had a decent amount of wiggle room. If the "wiggle room" is based off the quality of the gem and to get in the sweet spot would also put you dangerously close to TNTing yourself, that makes more sense in a risk-reward way. Having clicking the buttons increase the amount randomly would add to the risk. Something like playing primal energy blackjack.

And for what it's worth, any kind of fiction can have allowances for hand-waving to explain certain things. Just make sure it's balanced so it's belivable.

[Jed1314 420]

No, that answers all my questions extremely well. I believe we are both on the same page here and I appreciate your time answer them. My confusion in the mini-game was based off the coloring. I figured (incorrectly it would seem) that it would go stable->[insert random colors here]--> green-->yellow-->red. If you were aiming for green, it seemed like you had a decent amount of wiggle room. If the "wiggle room" is based off the quality of the gem and to get in the sweet spot would also put you dangerously close to TNTing yourself, that makes more sense in a risk-reward way. Having clicking the buttons increase the amount randomly would add to the risk. Something like playing primal energy blackjack.

And for what it's worth, any kind of fiction can have allowances for hand-waving to explain certain things. Just make sure it's balanced so it's belivable.

I certainly think that the energy levels would increase by random amounts As a novice, acting on his own intuition, Steve cannot possibly be familiar enough with the manipulation of Primal energies to decide how much to increase it by.

Comparable, perhaps, to trying to move water from one bucket to another using only your hands. You're bound to pick up different amounts of water and spill some (coincidently, this spillage of Primal energy is inconsequential as it will always gravitate back towards the gem).

I can understand where the confusion came from I usually would have used a photoshoped GUI to accompany an explanation like that, but I was hesitant to invest all that time if nobody liked the idea

You are very correct. You'll be able to assess it for yourself (if you have a masochistic bent) as I will probably post what I write in the off topic forums. (I fear the criticism of anyone apart from the people on here, who's criticism I am already familiar with )

[bsb23 303]

I like this idea, and would love to write a three page essay on what I would do to change it but I'm agreeing with eternal hear anything that I write about enchanting doesn't matter what-so-ever until we have at least a statement of what its going to be like rather than "we are going to wing it"

[lakeel 5]

actually its saphires,rubys, emeralds, and topazes for the 4 main elements. diamonds are just bad*** >.>

[Sasqaucth 45]

i webt to tekkit for a few days... i come back and i see what i missed, im ashamed

[Jed1314 420]

i webt to tekkit for a few days... i come back and i see what i missed, im ashamed

Ashamed ? Of this suggestion and me ? Or of yourself ?

[Sasqaucth 45]

My self... :3