Redstone

[Draco18s 46]

Pretty much.

Any system introduced that functions on the same basic principle as redstone is itself redstone, and any design goal of "preventing TFC-computers" isn't successful. You can add all kinds of "ah ha! but it can't do X!" only puts a speed bump in the way of people who were going to do it anyway.

[bsb23 303]

Once more you are correct but you are missing something people want to remove redstone for the believability this solution fixes that problem

[Draco18s 46]

Which half, the "combine four elements to make it" or the "burns out in 4.3 days"?

The former is sufficient, in my eyes, the latter makes it worthless (as in, hurts the game more than leaving redstone out entirely).

[Scooterdanny 285]

let me put it this way Draco, you wouldn't try to dig out a mountain with a stone shovel would you? no, because it sucks, and is tier 0, Similarily, redstone would be tier 0, and would be sufficient only for really simple contraptions, how about making the signal just decay extremely quickly, rather than break the item.

[Draco18s 46]

That analogy only works if there is a T1 and higher.

In which case: you have to insure that the first materials the player has access to for these various teirs of "electromechanical" systems is the redstone (or whatever is T0) and that it's easy to actually use (if you're going to impose other limitations) or you'll just insure that no one actually uses it.

That is:

If redstone is T0, then make T1 better, not T0 worse.

If redstone is Tn, and you're adding new T(<n) systems, make those worse.

It'd be easier to build a lower teir with new mechanics and leave redstone alone (for instance, if you did gears, gears could never replicate pistons, because the piston block uses redstone in its recipie, which if you have, you're not using gears) and either build up, or build down, or build in both directions. It's a lot harder to gimp the base system and then recode the entire operation as a new system.

[Scooterdanny 285]

No duh? that's what tiered things are Draco XD But i suggest Gears, and steam power, for the higher mechanisms. Redstone is ofc Cinnabar, Pipes from steam come from lead (Galena) And gears come from wrought iron, Good, yes no?

[Draco18s 46]

Just saying, you got to make sure those alternatives are there.

The other thing that would be wise is to have things that each teir can do and no other teir can.

E.g. gears can't power pistons, steam can't toggle glowstone lights, redstone can't move doors, etc. as an example. As well as providing a transition medium of some sort between them.

That keeps redstone relevant, even in "the age of steam" and one of the things that tweaks me the wrong way about vanilla minecraft and TFC, is that their's this teired progression, but that materials become 100% obsolete once you have a higher teir available (except as backup in case of emergencies). Well, other than the fact that (vanilla) even with bountiful iron and a diamond pick, I still make stone shovels and axes. Simply because the speed boost for higher materials is so insignificant, and the durability is so meaningless (I have infinite cobble, I do not have infinite diamonds).

(I might also disagree with redstone being the lowest teir, as it is effectively electricity, but that's personal opinion and I realize that).

[bsb23 303]

The reason its tier zero is number one the simplicity to make a complicated manufacturing process for redstone to make it a tier one or two would be far more work than that of making gears. Number two gears and steam have far more complicated uses. And number three it fits perfectly with the need to explain redstone to curious noobs.

Redstone have uses in the future would be nice, I agree but with a different reason, not uses for cheaper resources but rather uses for useful resources like in the case of a quick logic gate trigger where gears and steam or whatever would be far too complicated. either way I agree on that statement.

[Draco18s 46]

Just to make sure I understood:

Redstone being harder to make and with rarer materials than to make gears, makes gears a T1 or T2 system?

That seems backwards.

[bsb23 303]

No I'm saying since they aren't hard to get, and there isn't a complicated manufacturing process which would be more difficult to think of and code, that redstone should be a tier zero. I had poor punctuation so it was tough to read, sorry bout that.

[Draco18s 46]

Ok

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Ok

so its posts like this one that can be easily replaced with a simple "like" to the previous post

[Draco18s 46]

so its posts like this one that can be easily replaced with a simple "like" to the previous post

It's posts like this that are better used as part of the private message system.

[Scooterdanny 285]

Unless the target is not just you pal