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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Miner239

Elemental damage types & weapons

26 posts in this topic

I would like to see damage sources that actually sort of impact body temperature. Other than magic, a way to get elemental damage like fire, ice, or poison is to heat up the weapon(or fill them with lava that would sometimes needs to be recharged, or just pure fire), cool the weapon with pack ice(or fill them with a blue(?) steel bucket, or just pure frozen shards), or coat the weapon with a poisonous agent(or just pour the poison out). Fire and ice damage would obviously alter the victim's body temperature, while poison will decrease nutrition. 

 

Inspired by Royal Revolt 2.

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I think we should stick to realistic things, so an arrow on fire will make the enemy catch fire. Poison arrows, and even coating your sword with poison are also OK. But no Ice arrow, Please it looks too much like magic.And is not believable or needed.

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I'll go ahead and confirm that there WILL be more of an emphasis on fantasy aspects this time around. That said, the term believable is still in play with TFC2. I want a world that feels legit, but has room for fantastical aspects. My hope is that I can find a way to introduce these features in a way to meshes well with the rest of the mod. TFC2 is not TFC1. I want a bit more freedom this time around, but I'm trying to be mindful of the long time fans that have come to expect things a certain way. Hopefully I can find the balance.

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I'll go ahead and confirm that there WILL be more of an emphasis on fantasy aspects this time around. That said, the term believable is still in play with TFC2. I want a world that feels legit, but has room for fantastical aspects. My hope is that I can find a way to introduce these features in a way to meshes well with the rest of the mod. TFC2 is not TFC1. I want a bit more freedom this time around, but I'm trying to be mindful of the long time fans that have come to expect things a certain way. Hopefully I can find the balance.

as long as the crafting element is there and adventure/exploring, long time fans will be here. Realistically I don't see TFC1 as a "survival" game. But more of an advanced crafting game. [and that I like, more creative freedoms.]  

As to the OP's response. there needs to be a way to make magic less OP. armor/anti magic clothing. Look at any game with mods that adds magic. Magic always becomes the "go to" because it becomes OP quickly. as long as it can be balanced properly. [you know, a magic caster can shoot fireballs faster then I can shoot arrows, also doing x2 the damage... kinda OP.] 

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Bioxx, might wanna put your post details into your 'Things to know' thread.

 

I would really like magical stuff to be balanced, too. But that is a discussion for another thread, which is here.

 

I would really like combat to be more emphasized, and I think elemental damage could spice things up. For example, poisoned arrows could hinder regen and lowers the morale of the victim because of their lowered nutrition, which might mean lower regen. I'll think of a nutrition system later.

Edited by Miner239
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I am one of those old fans, that started playing the mod when the emphases was on realism.

I actually love fantasy, I just am one of those people that like to have an explanation for the fantastic, like in science fiction, 

An example: I am OK with introducing all kinds of animals from different Eras, like modern Mammoths and saber tooth, would not mind mythical creatures, like dragons or even Pegasus. The minecraft world is not our earth, just think of it as something that an alien created and dump you there.

What I don't like in many minecraft mods, is like you can get something out of nothing, they extrapolate the minecraft feature where with water and lava you are able to farm cobblestone, and make it possible to farm all kinds of materials and blocks.

To this day one of the best magic concepts I have seen is the one used in the Eragon series: To do something with magic uses as much energy as to do it with your hands, so do not try to lift a mountain because you will die. an using magic uses the same energy and makes you as much tired.

One way or another I am confident that Bioxx will be able to find a balance and am looking forward to play the game.

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I'd definitely love to see fantasy creatures - orcs, giants, stuff like that.  More variety than the same 'ole zombies and skeletons.  Even better if they have set-piece fortresses that would increase their spawning, until the player destroyed it.  Not as wild about magic items.  Definitely be interesting to see how the fantasy element shakes out.

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I'd definitely love to see fantasy creatures - orcs, giants, stuff like that.  More variety than the same 'ole zombies and skeletons.  Even better if they have set-piece fortresses that would increase their spawning, until the player destroyed it.  Not as wild about magic items.  Definitely be interesting to see how the fantasy element shakes out.

You touch on a good point with the fortresses. This is something that I've been planning to approach from the beginning this time around. I'd like to eventually make a post containing all sorts plans for TFC2, but I'm bad at organizing that kind of data. So I'll just post it here.

 

Note: Specifics are subject to change, but the following represents my intentions at this time.

 

My current plans are to have islands increase in difficulty as you move along the X axis in your world. There will only ever be 9 islands along the Z axis, but an infinite number along the X. As you travel +-X, the islands will get progressively harder to conquer with creatures becoming stronger. Before an island is pacified, building/living there should be impossible. This will feed into the adventure aspect of TFC2 that I'm wanting to play a more important role.

 

Yes this also means that NPCs are now a viable subject on this part of the forums.

 

I'm most likely not going to be doing major AI stuff with them, but they will provide a convenient way for me to handle player progression.

 

As far as the subject at hand, magic, I definitely want it to feel grounded, but I do not want to be limited either. Something that I've been lightly experimenting with is elemental environment effects from Divinity Original Sin such as setting the ground on fire, or coating the ground with acid. Hopefully when I go back to that, and more of the game is fleshed out, I can make it something fun.

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My current plans are to have islands increase in difficulty as you move along the X axis in your world. There will only ever be 9 islands along the Z axis, but an infinite number along the X. As you travel +-X, the islands will get progressively harder to conquer with creatures becoming stronger. Before an island is pacified, building/living there should be impossible. This will feed into the adventure aspect of TFC2 that I'm wanting to play a more important role.

When you sway this does that mean the islands will follow a linear pattern, or will they still be scattered along carried coords. For example will there only be 9 islands on the Z-axis total, or if I go like 12000 blocks west will I see islands on the Z-axis there too?
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When you sway this does that mean the islands will follow a linear pattern, or will they still be scattered along carried coords. For example will there only be 9 islands on the Z-axis total, or if I go like 12000 blocks west will I see islands on the Z-axis there too?

When travelling along the X axis, islands generate to infinity. From the northernmost island to the southernmost at any given X coordinate, there will only be 9 islands which are laid out on a grid that is 4096 x 4096 blocks in size. The middle most island would be the tropics with the world getting cooler as you move north or south from there. There is a bit of randomness to the island distribution so that not every single grid coordinate will have an island, but at this time ~90% of the grid is guaranteed to have an island. Sometimes you just get open ocean.

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Good to know. And on the note of arrows, so as to not derail, I think a "flash" arrow could be used for blindness and a barbed arrow for weakness/ slowness. If medicines/pathogens were in play you could use those for nausea and mining speed. Feel free to counter-point my ideas. :P

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I am not a pvp player. But I think if we going to introduce different effect arrows, the way to achieve should be by the use of potions, so we need first to create a tfc system to make potions and poisons.

Keeping in with the time framing of tfc we should start with a Mortar and Pestle, then introduce some kind of Decant device. 

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From the northernmost island to the southernmost at any given X coordinate, there will only be 9 islands which are laid out on a grid that is 4096 x 4096 blocks in size.

Will there still be a degree of configurability?  I know the multiplayer server I'm on right now has their Y coordinates up to 30k in both directions from the equator (though granted about half of that is virtually continual winter).  Does this mean the max you will be able to go from the equator in TFC2 will be approx 18k, no option for more?  Will this change the approximate temperature ranges from what they are now?  It seems like right now approx 10-12k is preferred by many people for having a decent growing season, but also snow. Jungle appears around I think 5 or 6k.  Will those ranges change much?

Edited by Darmo
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Will there still be a degree of configurability?  I know the multiplayer server I'm on right now has their Y coordinates up to 30k in both directions from the equator (though granted about half of that is virtually continual winter).  Does this mean the max you will be able to go from the equator in TFC2 will be approx 18k, no option for more?  Will this change the approximate temperature ranges from what they are now?  It seems like right now approx 10-12k is preferred by many people for having a decent growing season, but also snow. Jungle appears around I think 5 or 6k.  Will those ranges change much?

Ignore everything you know about TFC1 when considering TFC2, There is going to be very little that is valid between the two. Temperature does not gradually increase along the z axis. Each island has a climate zone that is valid for where it is in relation to the equator. This simpler system gives a lot less headaches overall for dealing with temperatures and calculations. The math behind getting per block ambient temperature in tfc1 was very very long and very nasty. Yuck.

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You touch on a good point with the fortresses. This is something that I've been planning to approach from the beginning this time around. I'd like to eventually make a post containing all sorts plans for TFC2, but I'm bad at organizing that kind of data. So I'll just post it here.

 

Note: Specifics are subject to change, but the following represents my intentions at this time.

 

My current plans are to have islands increase in difficulty as you move along the X axis in your world. There will only ever be 9 islands along the Z axis, but an infinite number along the X. As you travel +-X, the islands will get progressively harder to conquer with creatures becoming stronger. Before an island is pacified, building/living there should be impossible. This will feed into the adventure aspect of TFC2 that I'm wanting to play a more important role.

 

Yes this also means that NPCs are now a viable subject on this part of the forums.

 

I'm most likely not going to be doing major AI stuff with them, but they will provide a convenient way for me to handle player progression.

 

As far as the subject at hand, magic, I definitely want it to feel grounded, but I do not want to be limited either. Something that I've been lightly experimenting with is elemental environment effects from Divinity Original Sin such as setting the ground on fire, or coating the ground with acid. Hopefully when I go back to that, and more of the game is fleshed out, I can make it something fun.

I would love to see more generated structures like fortresses and huts and stuff. Absolute flavor bombs built right into the world. Even if they did nothing but sit there, it would be cool. With the new trees and rivers, pre-generated structures are great.Having to conquer islands to really move along them is a really cool progression idea, really gives the player a reason to go out into the world: if you want new materials, then you need to make the next island safe using the materials you already have access to. This is, of course, opposed to TFC1, where you go out and hope to strike it rich somewhere, and might simply be SOL in some cases.

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Offtopic imminent

 

Wait... 9 islands that infinitely generates to the z axis? Are you going to make Calm Belt too? 

 

 

EDIT: I do understand, I'm making a reference to One Piece here.

Edited by Miner239
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He's explained it twice now and it seems like you still don't quite understand, so I'm going to include a picture.

 

post-3005-0-66523000-1439954148_thumb.pn

 

Going North-South, there are only 9 islands. There's 1 island on the equator, 4 islands north of the equator, and 4 islands south of the equator. If the above image were any taller, it would just be ocean in the added space.

 

The world is infinite going East-West, so that vertical strip of 9 islands is repeated horizontally, and as you get farther and farther away from X = 0, the islands become more difficult. If the above image were any wider, the added space would be more repetitions of the vertical strip of 9 islands.

 

Not every circle will be and island though. To make for bigger oceans, some areas are just going to be water.

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I don't think you should label it as realistic survival if you are going to go off the deep end. Really disappointed and alienated.

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The law of Conservation of Energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but rather changes from one form to another.  Chemical energy, like food, is converted into kinetic energy, motion.  Perhaps in the TFC2 universe magical energy or mana, is simply another form of converted energy.  The elemental effects of heat and cold could be produced by  adding or removing energy from the atoms in a mass(item/person).  In order to add energy you would first need to remove it from another source and possibly store it.  Say, drawing the energy from a campfire, then channeling that into another form. 

 

Just some stray thoughts.  I've obviously read too much Science Fiction/Fantasy. :D

Edited by WillOfStone
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I don't think you should label it as realistic survival if you are going to go off the deep end. Really disappointed and alienated.

 

TFC2 is going to be a pretty different game, I don't know if it'll be called 'realistic survival' when it releases. TFC1 will always be available, though.

Edited by ifm2181
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I don't think you should label it as realistic survival if you are going to go off the deep end. Really disappointed and alienated.

I have never used the word realistic to describe TFC. Nor would I. In fact its one of the words that I hate more than any other in gaming. The tagline is "Survival mode as it should have been".

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The law of Conservation of Energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but rather changes from one form to another.  Chemical energy, like food, is converted into kinetic energy, motion.  Perhaps in the TFC2 universe magical energy or mana, is simply another form of converted energy.  The elemental effects of heat and cold could be produced by  adding or removing energy from the atoms in a mass(item/person).  In order to add energy you would first need to remove it from another source and possibly store it.  Say, drawing the energy from a campfire, then channeling that into another form. 

 

Just some stray thoughts.  I've obviously read too much Science Fiction/Fantasy. :D

I've had that sort of idea, too. Freeze someone by pushing his atoms opposite to the heat-induced movement. Or like the ending of the Eragon series where you convert yourself to power the surrounding, a.k.a. exploding violently. Ssssh, let's discuss it somewhere else.

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On 8/19/2015 at 8:36 AM, WillOfStone said:

The law of Conservation of Energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but rather changes from one form to another.  Chemical energy, like food, is converted into kinetic energy, motion.  Perhaps in the TFC2 universe magical energy or mana, is simply another form of converted energy.  The elemental effects of heat and cold could be produced by  adding or removing energy from the atoms in a mass(item/person).  In order to add energy you would first need to remove it from another source and possibly store it.  Say, drawing the energy from a campfire, then channeling that into another form. 

 

Just some stray thoughts.  I've obviously read too much Science Fiction/Fantasy. :D

I like this concept a lot actually. I see this as a kind of elemental attunement with the natural world. I feel like this system would be best added as a subtlety at first, but eventually may evolve into something that progresses with the player. The type of magic I feel would fit best within the universe that will be created by TFC2 is a bit unorthodox as magic systems go, but I think it may work. By the way, this idea is something that would more reasonably be added after the mod is somewhere near completion and assumes magic to be something players will work at as a main focus throughout the game. Here is my idea:

WARNING: This comment may get a bit complicated...well...I say a bit...:P

Basic idea: (Apparatus, Transmutation) Source, Vessel, (Transmutation), Focus.

Explanation: 

Let's use fire magic as an example. Imagine you want to cast a flame spell. Instead of using a mana and pyromancy system (Using mana and channeling it into arcane fire), I would like to refer to the post quoted above. The energy would be drawn from like Sources.  (Source)


- I want to cast a flame spell, so I must first absorb the flame from something that already contains some sort of flame (In the case of TFC1, campfire, kiln pit, forge, etc.)

The flame will then be transferred from the source to the Vessel (the Vessel being the mage). This "vessel" would hold the raw magical form of the flame found in the source. (Imagine mana, but element-specific. I absorb fire, I can only cast fire)  (Vessel)

 - I hold the flame in my hand and see its power indicated by a new bar appearing on-screen

From here the flame can be cast as is, or proceed to the next step. (Focus) 

 - I use my flame to cast a short burst of fire at my target (Imagine Igni from the Witcher series), The target is lit on fire.

But, what if I require something a bit more powerful? From the vessel stage, my flame can be manipulated, the more drastic the change from the original source, the more energy it uses (as we are getting into alchemical transumtation territory at this point) Converting a flame into a firebolt would take more flame to provide the energy to manipulate the starting flame. (Transmutation)

- I need to absorb more essence. I light a campfire and let it get really hot. I hold a hotkey over the fire and let my flame indicator fill as the campfire is drained of energy. After I've contained enough, I press another hotkey and a quick-select GUI opens. I can now select the form my flame will take. I tab over to the firebolt icon and my flame condenses into a castable firebolt.


Now, picture this. I am under siege by three other players and magic is my only defense. (I went full mage. Never Always go full mage...) What do you do if you really don't feel like making a crap load of campfires and sluggishly casting your small flame burst at your adversaries as you are promptly overrun and destroyed? Here comes the apparatus stage!

- I know this attack is coming for the sake of this post because of my spies strategically placed in the enemy base. I create an elemental crystal that i can cast flame spells into to fill its internal buffer. I see my enemies on the horizon and i right click with the crystal in my hand to fill my player buffer. I select firebolt and begin to rain fiery death on my foe.

Now, the only thing I haven't mentioned thus far: transmutation from the apparatus stage. An elemental crystal is a type of apparatus that can be used to store magical energy absorbed by the mage, but others exist as well. Such as an apparatus used to convert flame into, say, frost.

- My ally is by my side in my time of need. She uses an elemental crystal filled with flame and plugs it into a really interesting looking, 3D modeled, late-game device I've created and uses raw magical energy or specific raw materials to transmute her flame into frost. I see my enemies on the horizon and my ally sprints behind them and slows them with a frost spell. This makes targeting easier as I rain fiery death on my foe.

This system can be applied to various types of magic, mixing multiple essences (Earth and Fire to create an explosive fireball), expediting growth of crops, cooling stored food, turning your enemies into ice sculptures, etc. I thought a system like this would compliment TerraFirmaCraft's In-world focus and TerraFirmaCraft2's Adventure focus. I just thought I should provide a bit of input because I love magic systems :P. I can see a few problems with my system though. In my personal opinion, a little semi-automation would be nice, such as a machine that assists in the absorption and storing of essence. I wouldn't want a feature set like this to feel grindy, so multiple ways of absorbing, channeling, and combining elements would make the system feel more complete. As for the art style of the various apparatus I was picturing something like the image below. If anyone is genuinely interested in this idea and would like a more balanced and non-grindy form of it, I would gladly write another post lol. I'm excited to see where the TFC2 magic system goes and I hope I've provided some substantial ideas for the developers.

As a side note: If this becomes a thing, I have some experience with modeling and texturing and I would be willing to assist in that respect.

Image result for alchemical distillery

 

Thank you for your time reading this comment :) 


 

Edited by gandalfphysicist
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Good post, but my question is, how does this work with anything other than fire?  Fire is easy - big exothermic reaction.  Lots of energy.  It's the obvious go-to.  But what else?  Lightning is very exothermic, but the player cannot control it (or at least, *shouldn't* be able to, until later game anyway).   Water?  Not exothermic, and personally I'm hoping colored buckets won't even be a thing in TFC2.  So if the player must destroy a source water, well, water sources are a finite resource, unlike fire.  So they player would be forced farther and farther from base as they dry up their area.  I'm curious how you envision other elements playing into this.  Because otherwise it seems like it's basically going to involve converting fire into everything else you want to do.  And at that point it seem like you've lost the charm of making it a 'conversion' system, because there's only one conversion happening.

Edit: Also, this probably would have been better posted in the magic thread.

Edited by Darmo
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On 8/28/2016 at 9:02 AM, Darmo said:

Good post, but my question is, how does this work with anything other than fire?  Fire is easy - big exothermic reaction.  Lots of energy.  It's the obvious go-to.  But what else?  Lightning is very exothermic, but the player cannot control it (or at least, *shouldn't* be able to, until later game anyway).   Water?  Not exothermic, and personally I'm hoping colored buckets won't even be a thing in TFC2.  So if the player must destroy a source water, well, water sources are a finite resource, unlike fire.  So they player would be forced farther and farther from base as they dry up their area.  I'm curious how you envision other elements playing into this.  Because otherwise it seems like it's basically going to involve converting fire into everything else you want to do.  And at that point it seem like you've lost the charm of making it a 'conversion' system, because there's only one conversion happening.

Edit: Also, this probably would have been better posted in the magic thread.

Sorry, I'm still getting the hang of forum navigation. I'm going move the post over to the magic thread and see if I can find a solution to the problems that you've brought to my attention. :) 

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