Bedgar

I don't really like it, people could just skip winter couldn't they?

Also it would be kinda weird for things not to grow.

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/1185-balanced-recycling-of-tools/

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/813-how-do-you-guys-feel-about-forevertools-repairing-tools-armor/

ya it's been suggested

I agree that making bread was too simple and there was no water and heating involved.

The grindstone could be simply crafted on the crafting bench although that would make it pretty small.

Also, off topic but wheat plants really shouldn’t drop seeds. We should be able to craft one wheat into about 4 wheat grains we could plant.

Yes, This would help balance breeding and fruit trees waiting for a cow to give birth for 6 months is not worth it judging from the drop rate of 0-3 steaks per cow and as for the fruit trees they would need to accelerate in the growth process.

If you guys were wondering, if we DO change the length of a year, animals will not mature any faster, as this is determined by a "day" amount

so ya this would not inherently make the changes you want, but it would help you harvest your fruit trees more often

lol oups

If aspects of the game were added such as cows/pigs/chickens dropping less meat in the winter, I could definitely see the real need for something like preservation--a need for surviving through the winter. As it stands, though, I think all the ores should be given a purpose before something like this is added into the game.

I agree that this doesn’t need to be added to the game right now but that’s true for almost all the suggestions so threes nothing new there. As for less meat drop in winter... why? I don’t think you realize how much of a herd you would need to last the whole winter.

This is off topic but I would also like to point out that maybe keeping a herd alive during winter won’t be such an easy thing. Cows, pigs and chickens eat grass and seeds and maybe they won’t survive the winter if you don’t feed them since you domesticated them, they won’t be able to find food themselves.

But isn't sleeping like a caveman very bad for you IRL anyway?

I've slept on floors plenty, and it's never as restful and my back always kills me the next morning

Yes but a cavemen wouldn’t be sore the next morning because a cavemen sleeps like a cavemen all his life (being a cavemen and all).

My point is that we adapt to our situation and if you are forced to sleep on the ground each day after a while you won’t be sore anymore. Not to mention that Steve does wake up in the middle of nowhere which suggests that he was sleeping on the ground .

Part two: preserving techniques cont.

Pickeling preserving veggies

Well veggies don’t really exist yet

but it would work similarly to jams

V = veggies

S = salt

W= water

J = jar/bottle

V V V

SWS => 3 jars of pickled veggies + bucket

J J J

Or If vinegar is ever created it could substitute the salt and water but this is all supposition and I don’t want to go more into cooking then I need to.

Now all that’s left in part 2 is the fermenting but I think ill just skip that part for now. I’m not an expert in fermenting, much less in old fermenting techniques and I haven’t though of anything good implementation of it yet. Besides there is no reason you couldn’t get a fresh bucket of milk each day if you have a cow anyway.

Properly cured and stored meat should last for months at least, sometimes years but it can also take a long time to cure. It would probably improve SMP play to just say meat lasts indefinitely if it is properly cured and stored. Of course, with SMP play, you can also avoid the prospect of starving during winter just by logging out and letting the server pass time - SMP gameplay constraints are entirely different and it shouldn't really be treated as the same game as SSP. It seems like a lot of survival against nature can really only easily be a feature of SSP gameplay by sheer virtue of the fact you log out of SMP and let the world continue without you, whereas you have to live through every single day in SSP.

Ya frankly I don’t see this feature and other features working too well on a 24/7 server. Me and my friends play on our server from time to time and we don’t leave the server running while we don’t play so it’s fine but on a 24/7 server that’s a different story. If you log in once a day each day at the same time more than 2 minecraft months pass by between logins. That means you need to preserve everything before you log out or it will rot. Also I realise that this feature is not for everyone which is why I would really like to see this implemented as a optional feature that people could turn off if they wish.

It could be annoying for people who don't cook their food; however, since it fills more hunger bars cooked, why would you just leave raw meat around? Correct me if I'm wrong, he said "All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state." Cooking alters its original state. Also if cooked food is immune I don't really see it being a problem or adding to much complexity to either SSP or SMP. This would really only add new types of food you could keep. I think it would be fun.

Ah I knew I forgot to add something. No cooked food would not make the meat last forever. Cooking would kill the bacterias and reduce the water content there but cooked meat will eventually go bad too. I said "left in their original state" to say that some altered states would preserve them indefinitely not to say that all altered state would preserve them indefinitely. I’ll make that clear somewhere.

ya the bucket comes from the water.

I did not type the above recipe and such, I just do not know how to "quote" it as I see on other posts. If someone can tell me that would be great.

The point is that I spent roughly a year of my own time, several hours a day, designing a MUD.

...

It's a bad design.

First of all this "busy work" you’re talking about is called playing minecraft and getting from point a to point b is the point of the game. A game designer in an rpg can "arbitrarily" decide you start with a rusty sword instead of Excalibur and that doesn’t make it bad game design.

He did not set the chest size to 32 then change it to 8. he just dident get around to change it in the first place. And why are you assuming that he plan on adding a chests with 32 slots again? He won’t!

If you had read the change log before you updated you wouldn’t have lost your stuff.

Ok ill start writing down what I have in my head.

part one: general mechanics

version 1

• All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state.
• These items will start with full freshness (simply durability?) and lose it over time based on the ambient temperature.
• Once an item loses all its freshness it becomes a rotten version of itself.
• The rotten version acts the same way as rotten flesh.
• When picking up food it will try to find a stack with similar freshness it can join else it will make a new stack if there is space if there isn’t it will join a stack anyway and the stacks freshness will be the lower of the two values.
• Certain special rules may apply for example potatoes should not be left in sunlight for too long.
• A specialised storage device may be used to slow down the decay of freshness a bit (shelves?)

Part two: preserving techniques.

Jam preserving fruits

The recipe would be as follows

F = fruit

S = sugar

W= water

B = bucket of jam mix(tentative name)

J = jar/bottle

F F F

SWS => B

after heating

B

J J J

would produce 3 jars of jam

jars of jam would last forever.

I don’t know much about the fruits in tfc but if they all restore the same amount of hunger then there would be no problem with mixing the fruits and having a generic jar of jam regardless of the fruits used.

Cooking preserving meat part 1

cooking meat like you normally would makes it rott 20-30% slower

Salting preserving meat part 2

Simply crafting meat with salt slows down the rotting of the meat by 70~80%. No table required

Smoking preserving meat part 3

To smoke your meat a smoking pit has to be created similar to a charcoal pit. Place a fire pit at the center on the layer above the fire place smoking racks (2x2 sticks in a crafting table?) cover with stone but leave an opening for air circulation at the centre. After a while the meat would become smoked meat and would become non perishable.

Ok I thought about it and actually it would be worse in smp. When you log back in all your food would have rotten except for the stuff you keep on yourself of course

About the things I’ve said about picking the mechanics you want in your world I might open a thread about that later.

Well, and of course, dry wheat will last basically forever. There are a lot of different things that could be done to make the food system more realistic, like adding mills, cookpots, requiring fresh water to cook with, and so on. We could get rid of wheat 'seeds' and force people to choose between saving wheat for planting and saving wheat for eating. Hell, you could even have rats eat up your wheat stores, necessitating the domestication of cats. It's all a question of what games well and actually adds to fun/challenge.

I like it, it makes a lot of sense and I would like to see it in tfc except maybe for the rats part. But I would like to stay away from the agriculture and cooking part as reasonably possible in this thread.

The main thing I would like to see is the possibility of not surviving through the winter if you haven't stored enough food (well, I guess you could fish too), in which case a food preservation system could contribute to the game challenge of that rather than just being a chore.

You might not find it much of a challenge once I get my ice cellar idea going through. Also if a player where to hoard rotten food they could probably survive through it as well. I heard people irl used to wait until winter to slaughter their cattle in order to survive the winter. I believe in adding mechanics that add a challenge yet doesn’t force people to play the game your way.

1. fair enough, i suppose, still though, i didn't think disposable worlds were a focal point of this mod.

2. neither can minecraft, if you move far enough the world will become unplayable because the save corrupts because of it.

3. plenty of reasons to have them on hand or at least as close as possible to your forge and bloomery.

1. It's not a focal point your trying to make it be by using a scenario that most likely is not going to happened as an argument.

2. Funny I’ve never seen that bug and I can’t find any mention of it anywhere. Well even if it does exist I’m sure it’s going to be fixed in a few years.

3. Well then you will just have to wait for them to become useful before you melt them. Is it really that hard to think of stuff like this by yourself?

Well that’s a shame having steps before tin/zinc would have been nice if something like the wheelbarrow was implemented.

This sounds fun, but it seems like it would just add another layer of complexity that SSP doesn't need

Ya a lot of my ideas would make the game more complex and challenging to the point that having them all would probably make the game unplayable .

But it would be nice if the player could decide which mechanic to enable or to tone them up or down. This could add a lot of personalisation that would fit the players play style and add replayability. Not that minecraft in general lacks replaybility it is after all an open ended game.

Ya too tired for that right now il come back to it after i sleep. Anyone who would like to propose a full system by all means go ahead I only have some vague ideas right now and I should probably do some research.

Ok so i fould some topics that touched the subject (some-ideas-regarding-cooking-and-food-itself/) but nothing really concrete so i though i would create a new thread so we can get some interesting ideas going.

so the basic idea is that food should rot over time and steps you be needed to preserve their freshness or alter them to last longer.

Here are some general ideas for now:

Salting, sun drying and smoking comes to mind(topic on salt water here).

Jam, pickeling and fermenting could also be done but would be more complex and could produce a bad batch?

Ice cellars would be nice to have (for some reason all my thoughts about this mod comes down to winter )

I also know that certain herbs where used as preservatives but im no expert on the matter.

Ambiend temperature would be a big factor (therefore the need for an ice cellar through ice shouldent last till summer)

The freshness value might not be visible but some indications might me visible like a change in the name or the icon of the food.

If an item is well over its expiration date it could cause the green swirly animation(from eating rotten meat) around where it is located to indicate stench.

foods that would eventually expire would need to be kept in different stacks (unstackable?) or the stack would assume the freshness of the least fresh item(which yould make sense)

keeping the food in a more sanatised place/ storage device might make it last longer.

1. first of all, sure enough, but neither of us can say for sure until that happens.

2. not sure how you reason this.

3. well that just goes without saying, but i want to have room left in my buildings for things besides chests as well and it's incredibly annoying to have to organize too many of them too.

1. True but complaining because of something that has a slight chance of happening in the far future that might be an inconvenience seems silly to me.

2. Well the same reason you can’t count to infinity.

3. Have a building for the sole purpose of storing unimplemented ores. There is no reason to have them always at hand right?

Having an option to turn the less useful (useless) ores off from the pickaxe seems like a better solution to me then removing the ores.

Ok first of all, your world will likely be incompatible in a few years. Second, you cannot dig up all the useless gems and unsmeltable ores in an infinite world. Third I did say there was a simple solution and that is to make more chests.

I have first-hand experience in the process of designing and programming a computer game. I am far more aware than you seem to be of exactly what is involved in the process.

I’m sorry but I fail to see your point, could to explain how that is related? To me it seems you’re just trying to put yourself in a position of authority for no reason.

Actually, I once did some calculations and found that the Minecraft world in many cases seems to scale at a factor of 4 where the real world scales by 10.

its not about the factors of 4 its about the powers of 2 . in fact your also using them.

8 months of 8 days each, 64 days total.

Now back on topic. Elustran said that 32 rl hours per year dident seam that bad but im not so sure about that.

First of all i forgot to mention an asumption that i made when i did my calculations. I assumed that you wouldent skip the night. Thats a pretty safe assumption when your on a SMP server but on a SSP world that all depends on the player. so if your the type to skip the night a year goes by faster(obviously).

Now 32 rl hours per year thats 160 rl minutes(2.66 rl hours) per minecraft month. That might seem ok as the mod is right now but when the argiculture overhaul comes that might be a problem. Of course im not a dev and I dont know how its going to be like but im guessing its going to be a bit like the fruit trees. Plant croop x at month y and harvest z months later. Maybe some crops would have multiple harvests in one month (kinda like harvest moon). That means in 160 minutes you might need to harvest your crops find the seeds for your next rotation and you probably want to go mining and all that stuff. then again maybe im just trying to find faults in everything and 160 minutes is fine .

Final point. I just realised that it would also mean winter yould be 24 days long. Now i know that the time to prepare for winter yould also decrease but that seams like an awfuly short winter for us to fuss about (when we should be fussing about it i might add)

But I’m glad we could all agree that 122 rl hours for one minecraft year seems too long. And the config, it would be awesome if it can be done.

Oh man your complaining too darn much. If you want to hog all the useless ores then fine where it the problem? Just make more chests and that’s it. And you’re not screwed if you didn’t keep your ore when they become useful you just need to find the again .

You guys seem to forget that this is a beta, if playing the game is not fun for you because it’s incomplete and your too darn inflexible then just wait until the mod is done.

I feel like you misunderstood the point of my post.

I feel obliged to point out that maybe Jed missed the point of your post because you didn’t write the point of your post?

Nowhere in your first posts did you suggest something like:"maybe they should remove all the ores that have no use yet from the release patches?" you just asked for the dev to make them useful and pointed out that they were useless. Not the same thing.

Now as for your idea I think eternal is right on this one. Just because we should expect the need to regen our worlds often doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to avoid it as much as possible.