food preservation

[Bedgar 13]

Ok so i fould some topics that touched the subject (some-ideas-regarding-cooking-and-food-itself/) but nothing really concrete so i though i would create a new thread so we can get some interesting ideas going.

so the basic idea is that food should rot over time and steps you be needed to preserve their freshness or alter them to last longer.

Here are some general ideas for now:

Salting, sun drying and smoking comes to mind(topic on salt water here).

Jam, pickeling and fermenting could also be done but would be more complex and could produce a bad batch?

Ice cellars would be nice to have (for some reason all my thoughts about this mod comes down to winter )

I also know that certain herbs where used as preservatives but im no expert on the matter.

Ambiend temperature would be a big factor (therefore the need for an ice cellar through ice shouldent last till summer)

The freshness value might not be visible but some indications might me visible like a change in the name or the icon of the food.

If an item is well over its expiration date it could cause the green swirly animation(from eating rotten meat) around where it is located to indicate stench.

foods that would eventually expire would need to be kept in different stacks (unstackable?) or the stack would assume the freshness of the least fresh item(which yould make sense)

keeping the food in a more sanatised place/ storage device might make it last longer.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

+1, but I'd like to see this expanded on a bit and fleshed out before I speak further

[Bedgar 13]

Ya too tired for that right now il come back to it after i sleep. Anyone who would like to propose a full system by all means go ahead I only have some vague ideas right now and I should probably do some research.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

This sounds fun, but it seems like it would just add another layer of complexity that SSP doesn't need

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

This sounds fun, but it seems like it would just add another layer of complexity that SSP doesn't need

...waitwut.

We have to build a huge pile and harvest approximately all the wood that exists everywhere just to get a few stacks of charcoal.

...But tossing some salt on your meat and leaving it out to dry is complicated?

I'm confused dude.

[Bedgar 13]

This sounds fun, but it seems like it would just add another layer of complexity that SSP doesn't need

Ya a lot of my ideas would make the game more complex and challenging to the point that having them all would probably make the game unplayable .

But it would be nice if the player could decide which mechanic to enable or to tone them up or down. This could add a lot of personalisation that would fit the players play style and add replayability. Not that minecraft in general lacks replaybility it is after all an open ended game.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

...waitwut.

We have to build a huge pile and harvest approximately all the wood that exists everywhere just to get a few stacks of charcoal.

...But tossing some salt on your meat and leaving it out to dry is complicated?

I'm confused dude.

all I mean is that playing SSP has you running around back and forth doing all of the roles of a small village. Hunting, mining, cooking, crafting, building. I don't know if people will play a game like that, especially is neglecting to preserve their food results in the loss of their hard-earned meat

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

all I mean is that playing SSP has you running around back and forth doing all of the roles of a small village. Hunting, mining, cooking, crafting, building. I don't know if people will play a game like that, especially is neglecting to preserve their food results in the loss of their hard-earned meat

loss? I wouldn't say loss

it would just turn into something less palatable like rotten flesh. There are vanilla players who eat nothing but rotten flesh and consider anything else a waste of their time because the flesh is easy to obtain and doesn't have to be farmed. It would be the same way with TFC - you'll have obsessives like me who run around making nice looking farms cooking/preserving everything and seeing their hard work come to fruition as they give steve a balanced and healthy diet - and then you'll have other people who won't give a crap and will just eat moldy bread and zombie flesh for the whole game and wont even think twice about it.

Make it like all the other complicated stuff we have - optional, but rewarding.

[Jed1314 420]

loss? I wouldn't say loss

it would just turn into something less palatable like rotten flesh. There are vanilla players who eat nothing but rotten flesh and consider anything else a waste of their time because the flesh is easy to obtain and doesn't have to be farmed. It would be the same way with TFC - you'll have obsessives like me who run around making nice looking farms cooking/preserving everything and seeing their hard work come to fruition as they give steve a balanced and healthy diet - and then you'll have other people who won't give a crap and will just eat moldy bread and zombie flesh for the whole game and wont even think twice about it.

Make it like all the other complicated stuff we have - optional, but rewarding.

I am with eternal on this. I love the idea of having to preserve meat, but being able to survive without it. This makes sense as you could live off of fresh produce alone, so preservation is a convenience and not a necessity

[elustran 23]

Well, and of course, dry wheat will last basically forever. There are a lot of different things that could be done to make the food system more realistic, like adding mills, cookpots, requiring fresh water to cook with, and so on. We could get rid of wheat 'seeds' and force people to choose between saving wheat for planting and saving wheat for eating. Hell, you could even have rats eat up your wheat stores, necessitating the domestication of cats. It's all a question of what games well and actually adds to fun/challenge.

The main thing I would like to see is the possibility of not surviving through the winter if you haven't stored enough food (well, I guess you could fish too), in which case a food preservation system could contribute to the game challenge of that rather than just being a chore.

[Jed1314 420]

Well, and of course, dry wheat will last basically forever. There are a lot of different things that could be done to make the food system more realistic, like adding mills, cookpots, requiring fresh water to cook with, and so on. We could get rid of wheat 'seeds' and force people to choose between saving wheat for planting and saving wheat for eating. Hell, you could even have rats eat up your wheat stores, necessitating the domestication of cats. It's all a question of what games well and actually adds to fun/challenge.

The main thing I would like to see is the possibility of not surviving through the winter if you haven't stored enough food (well, I guess you could fish too), in which case a food preservation system could contribute to the game challenge of that rather than just being a chore.

Well thought out, interesting, realistic and fun ?

How can I not +1 ?

[IHaTeD2 3]

Thought about Granarys / Silos today.

Similar System like the Bloomery: You build up some sort of Tower, build something to get the Stuff out at the Bottom and throw your wheat or later corn (extracted) into the top.

Maybe not a 1x1 block small one, maybe 3x3 so you have enough Space for a good amount of Corn for the Winter and a good looking Building Type.

[Bedgar 13]

Ok I thought about it and actually it would be worse in smp. When you log back in all your food would have rotten except for the stuff you keep on yourself of course

About the things I’ve said about picking the mechanics you want in your world I might open a thread about that later.

Well, and of course, dry wheat will last basically forever. There are a lot of different things that could be done to make the food system more realistic, like adding mills, cookpots, requiring fresh water to cook with, and so on. We could get rid of wheat 'seeds' and force people to choose between saving wheat for planting and saving wheat for eating. Hell, you could even have rats eat up your wheat stores, necessitating the domestication of cats. It's all a question of what games well and actually adds to fun/challenge.

I like it, it makes a lot of sense and I would like to see it in tfc except maybe for the rats part. But I would like to stay away from the agriculture and cooking part as reasonably possible in this thread.

The main thing I would like to see is the possibility of not surviving through the winter if you haven't stored enough food (well, I guess you could fish too), in which case a food preservation system could contribute to the game challenge of that rather than just being a chore.

You might not find it much of a challenge once I get my ice cellar idea going through. Also if a player where to hoard rotten food they could probably survive through it as well. I heard people irl used to wait until winter to slaughter their cattle in order to survive the winter. I believe in adding mechanics that add a challenge yet doesn’t force people to play the game your way.

[Bedgar 13]

Ok ill start writing down what I have in my head.

part one: general mechanics

version 1

• All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state.
• These items will start with full freshness (simply durability?) and lose it over time based on the ambient temperature.
• Once an item loses all its freshness it becomes a rotten version of itself.
• The rotten version acts the same way as rotten flesh.
• When picking up food it will try to find a stack with similar freshness it can join else it will make a new stack if there is space if there isn’t it will join a stack anyway and the stacks freshness will be the lower of the two values.
• Certain special rules may apply for example potatoes should not be left in sunlight for too long.
• A specialised storage device may be used to slow down the decay of freshness a bit (shelves?)

That’s it for the general mechanics for now. I didn’t add much from what I wrote in the op but ill probably add more as things pop up.

Part two: preserving techniques.

Jam preserving fruits

The recipe would be as follows

F = fruit

S = sugar

W= water

B = bucket of jam mix(tentative name)

J = jar/bottle

F F F

SWS => B

after heating

B

J J J

would produce 3 jars of jam

jars of jam would last forever.

I don’t know much about the fruits in tfc but if they all restore the same amount of hunger then there would be no problem with mixing the fruits and having a generic jar of jam regardless of the fruits used.

Cooking preserving meat part 1

cooking meat like you normally would makes it rott 20-30% slower

Salting preserving meat part 2

Simply crafting meat with salt slows down the rotting of the meat by 70~80%. No table required

Smoking preserving meat part 3

To smoke your meat a smoking pit has to be created similar to a charcoal pit. Place a fire pit at the center on the layer above the fire place smoking racks (2x2 sticks in a crafting table?) cover with stone but leave an opening for air circulation at the centre. After a while the meat would become smoked meat and would become non perishable.

[The Nameless Name 9]

I like all of these ideas from the previous post but it would get very annoying in SMP to have stacks of raw beef stored away but the next time you log on it is all rotten because you were all out of preservatives.

I think a cabinet would make a little more sense than a shelf.

I like the bullet about freshness. I had to read it a couple times for it to make sense but it seems like the only reasonable solution that doesn't allow the player to use the durability to an unfair advantage.

[The Nameless Name 9]

Sorry part to was posted as I was typing mine.

[The Nameless Name 9]

Bedgar Said

(Jam preserving fruits

The recipe would be as follows

F = fruit

S = sugar

W= water

B = bucket of jam mix(tentative name)

J = jar/bottle

F F F

SWS => B

after heating

B

J J J

would produce 3 jars of jam

jars of jam would last forever.

I don’t know much about the fruits in tfc but if they all restore the same amount of hunger then there would be no problem with mixing the fruits and having a generic jar of jam regardless of the fruits used.)

Preserving as described in part two makes sense but shouldn't it require a bucket to make a bucket of jam? And like the cake creation in vanilla it should give back the bucket in the 3 jar creation.

I did not type the above recipe and such, I just do not know how to "quote" it as I see on other posts. If someone can tell me that would be great.

[Bedgar 13]

ya the bucket comes from the water.

I did not type the above recipe and such, I just do not know how to "quote" it as I see on other posts. If someone can tell me that would be great.

quote button at the bottom right of every post .

[The Nameless Name 9]

Thanks. Stupidity overlooked that "water" meant water bucket. Intelligence is face-palming right now.

[Ryuugumo 88]

A specialised storage device may be used to slow down the decay of freshness a bit (shelves?)

Maybe racks, you know like we use for drying produce and meats.

Jam preserving fruits

The recipe would be as follows

F = fruit

S = sugar

W= water

B = bucket of jam mix(tentative name)

J = jar/bottle

F F F

SWS => B

after heating

B

J J J

would produce 3 jars of jam

jars of jam would last forever.

I don’t know much about the fruits in tfc but if they all restore the same amount of hunger then there would be no problem with mixing the fruits and having a generic jar of jam regardless of the fruits used.

Salting preserving meat part 1

Simply crafting meat with salt slows down the rotting of the meat by 70~80%. No table required

Smoking preserving meat part 2

To smoke your meat a smoking pit has to be created similar to a charcoal pit. Place a fire pit at the center on the layer above the fire place smoking racks (2x2 sticks in a crafting table?) cover with stone but leave an opening for air circulation at the centre. After a while the meat would become smoked meat and would become non perishable.

Cool but for some reason your post didn't show up all the way.

[Ryuugumo 88]

I like all of these ideas from the previous post but it would get very annoying in SMP to have stacks of raw beef stored away but the next time you log on it is all rotten because you were all out of preservatives.

It could be annoying for people who don't cook their food; however, since it fills more hunger bars cooked, why would you just leave raw meat around? Correct me if I'm wrong, he said "All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state." Cooking alters it's original state. Also if cooked food is immune I don't really see it being a problem or adding to much complexity to either SSP or SMP. This would really only add new types of food you could keep. I think it would be fun.

This sounds fun, but it seems like it would just add another layer of complexity that SSP doesn't need

[The Nameless Name 9]

It could be annoying for people who don't cook their food; however, since it fills more hunger bars cooked, why would you just leave raw meat around? Correct me if I'm wrong, he said "All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state." Cooking alters it's original state. Also if cooked food is immune I don't really see it being a problem or adding to much complexity to either SSP or SMP. This would really only add new types of food you could keep. I think it would be fun.

Yeah, I agree as I said I like all of these ideas. I hardly ever play SMP so it was really just what I thought made sense. I usually play SSP hardcore so I rely on cooked food. If I kill a cow I grab some sticks, cut down a tree and cook him right at his death spot because it entertains me. I would like to see this added don't misunderstand me.

[Bedgar 13]

It could be annoying for people who don't cook their food; however, since it fills more hunger bars cooked, why would you just leave raw meat around? Correct me if I'm wrong, he said "All meat, fruit, vegetable and milk will spoil over time if left in their original state." Cooking alters its original state. Also if cooked food is immune I don't really see it being a problem or adding to much complexity to either SSP or SMP. This would really only add new types of food you could keep. I think it would be fun.

Ah I knew I forgot to add something. No cooked food would not make the meat last forever. Cooking would kill the bacterias and reduce the water content there but cooked meat will eventually go bad too. I said "left in their original state" to say that some altered states would preserve them indefinitely not to say that all altered state would preserve them indefinitely. I’ll make that clear somewhere.

[Sasqaucth 45]

Someone mentioned these ideas in their post, that i linked in my post about cooking.

[elustran 23]

I like all of these ideas from the previous post but it would get very annoying in SMP to have stacks of raw beef stored away but the next time you log on it is all rotten because you were all out of preservatives.

Properly cured and stored meat should last for months at least, sometimes years but it can also take a long time to cure. It would probably improve SMP play to just say meat lasts indefinitely if it is properly cured and stored. Of course, with SMP play, you can also avoid the prospect of starving during winter just by logging out and letting the server pass time - SMP gameplay constraints are entirely different and it shouldn't really be treated as the same game as SSP. It seems like a lot of survival against nature can really only easily be a feature of SSP gameplay by sheer virtue of the fact you log out of SMP and let the world continue without you, whereas you have to live through every single day in SSP.