Maga

Hey, so, the server is fun but there are some serious problems getting in the way of gameplay atm.

1) making a  crafting bench gives the block and does not expand the player gui crafting window, since the bench block can't be used we are stuck in 2x2 crafting.

2) player placed berry bushes don't produce any berries

3) fall damage is the vanilla value, so falling 40 blocks barely hurts you at all ....not really complaining here

4) zombies seem to be the only mob that take damage normally, every other mob (passive/hostile) will not respond to attacks. They sit there, no sound, no knock back, no turning red and no particles... then they keel over dead but don't drop any loot. For whatever reason zombies are the exception.

5) when taking damage from hostile mobs the player acts the same way, not making the ouch sound, not getting hit back, nothing. Several seconds after touching a spider (or bear...or skele javelin etc...) your health falls super fast without a sound and you die. Oddly enough you don't drop your items when you re-spawn (just like the other mobs)

<3 I'll let you know if we find anything else. I don't know how much of this list is due to changes you might have made to the server and how much is SMP buggyness.

I never made torch forests anyways because I thought they looked bad. Now I just pick every pumpkin I see and hide them with chiseled blocks for my indoor and path lighting. Play style has not changed, just a nuisance to deal with. I maintain my position that this will only be a truly beneficial mechanic if long lasting oil lanterns are added in the next build.

I like this, but there needs to be a way for the player to put prevention measures in place. Also, I hope that the trees will break if a couple of logs are burnt, because floating trees are the worst way to ruin a landscape. Other than that, I think this could be an interesting 'natural disaster' mechanic that isn't too involved like earthquakes or tornadoes and is still preventable, so it isn't too overpowered

This would be done the same way as in real life. If you want to protect your home and farmland from fire you take the time to cut down trees and create a ring around your home where the fire cannot spread from one side to another. Building in strategic areas with more water or stone around you to protect you is also a logical approach. This scenario made me think of a new bucket mechanic that I will add to the OP. Essentially throwing wooden pails of water would remove flames from a small area.

In the grand scheme of things nature doesn't tend to give a crap what people want, and goes around burning stuff anyway... just look at British Columbia after a dry spell.

Maga was not missing either. I had known your first point for several months. I learned about the second unintended "feature/bug" while perusing the forums this morning.

We do indeed have different ideas of what overgrown is. I think logically that if there are so many trees in a forest that saplings on the ground don't get enough light/space to grow and mature then the forest is already overgrown. This opinion is also the one held by conservationist and foresters. I have done tree-thinning in the past.

Scenario might play out like this:

-No rain for a long time

-Storm comes along

-Lightning strike sets fire that spreads extremely rapidly within the area designated as extremely dry

-A few hours of rain eventually raises the wetness in the area to a point where the fire dies out

-Nature moves in and saplings repopulate the area

I'm not suggesting that forest fires should become a regular occurrence, but that the extra level of depth in environmental self-regulation would be a welcome addition to the game.

1.) Is this suggestion based off of speculation, or are you actually observing overgrown forests taking over?

 

2.) If forest overpopulation is a problem, why would a solution based off humidity be a good thing? Wouldn't the problem continue to exist in wet areas, while making it difficuult for trees to survive in areas where there would already be less trees and not have the overpopulation problem?

 

3.) If forest overpopulation is a problem, wouldn't changing the time of growth or sapling failure chances be better options?

1) The rate at which sapling are generating around my house and growing into trees is such that without consistent lumber-jacking they would overrun the place within the course of a year or two

2) Because it's so much more realistic and immersive. In reality it is the swampy areas that are over-grown and dense while dry areas that are at higher risk of fire tend to have sparse vegetation because it is routinely cleared via flre

3) That will delay the problem but not fix it. Better to have a balanced counter-mechanic than to slow down an unbalanced one imo.

Just a quick idea.

I'm not sure if this is buried in the code somewhere already but if it's not I think it would make a really cool addition.

Now that in 79 random grass block ticking actually creates saplings like it's supposed to, it's very easy for a forest to become overgrown over the course of several years. Nature takes care of this by allowing the increased risk of fire in dense old growth to clear away the old and make way for the new. I was wondering if it would be feasible to make fire spread affected by the general "wetness" of an area. Back in the good old days when fire spread forever in early mine craft beta you were terrified of this natural disaster. Now it's no big deal. Imagine, no rain in an area?... live in fear of ravaging infernoes sweeping the landscape. If you've just been throw a few days/weeks of rain fire spread would be nerfed in that area so that there is no cause for concern and the fire only makes it a few blocks. Dry trees and grass burn much easier than wet ones.  Is this possible?

I just figured that since the forest can now regenerate itself there should be a way for it to naturally clear up a little too.

EDIT:

Idea for new bucket mechanic: Using a wooden bucket (because metal ones place source blocks) right clicking a full water bucket would remove fire blocks in a 3x3 or 5x5 area centered on the block you right clicked.

If there is no block then shift+right clicking the full bucket in mid-air will have the same effect, but centered on the player, or perhaps one or two blocks ahead of them.

This is simply a way for players to not be completely helpless against the inferno, and I think it fits with the style of TFC.

If there is still any doubt regarding the validity of this claim I have also experienced this bug on several occasions but assumed it had been brought up already.

@wyrmofvt Not in a million years would I have articulated all this so perfectly. If this gets blown off too I say abandon ship. No sense kicking dead horses.

You have my thanks for taking the time to put this up here.

skyhouse71 Well said. Your point about the fun coming from having a goal in sight to ease the load sums it up perfectly.

Seeing as colored steel buckets provide end-game water solutions to problems on the same level as permanent light sources I don't think it's absurd to ask for a permanent light (infinite glow gourds don't strike me as that solution)

So the trick is to solve the infinite light issue to add difficulty and resource management without making it bleak and pointless chore that the player can never ever escape from.

Possible solution in my opinion: Torches that burn out, medium tier metal lanterns that take much longer to go out and finally a blue steel lantern that can be loaded with lava to burn forever without burning down nearby structures.

I think a blue steel lantern as an end-game infinite light source makes sense in the context of what's already there.

My point the whole time has been that there should NOT be a period of time where players need to use crude temporary solutions. Add the torch burnout, but only if more permanent lanterns are added along with it. If that means delaying the torch burnout to the next build I think that would be better than months of pumpkin-mania. They need to be added together, then we avoid the wait-around-for-months-until-the-next-build-is-out-alternatives.

Nowhere did you say "No, shaddup, lanterns r stuuped >8( "

But when you reply to a fairly comprehensive suggestion with nothing to address what was said and simply repeat "use pumpkins with texturepacks" it certainly comes across as a dismissal.

Kitty, I'm well aware that there are workarounds to this issue. There will always be a more primitive, ugly and inconvenient way to play the game. However, there is a reason why people build castles and cottages in minecraft, why they plant flowers in their gardens and why they make pens and barns to keep their animals. Using the method of thinking that you apply when dismissing lanterns and candles one might argue that the game should be played in dirt huts with stone tools with texture packs applied to make it look better. The fact is that in an open world sandbox options are a good thing. Keeping doors open for people who want to explore further and build higher is the life blood of this game. Simply bashing an idea because the game is still playable with cumbersome workarounds seems very contradictory to the nature of minecraft.

Hell, we might as well remove everything past the bronze age since you don't need it to live and some people don't use it.

Jack o' lanterns are hideous. Lanterns look freaking sweet. Sorry but I'm a builder and I can't ignore aesthetics.

I can't stop thinking how great it would be to come home at dusk, the lights gently flickering in cages along my garden path, eating diner, refueling and dialing down lanterns before going to bed, snuffing out a tallow candle on my bedside table... The feels...

Since a suggestion thread was created before this I'll just take my central argument from there and repost for Bioxx to have a look at.

"My main concern is that adding a time limit to torches REQUIRES the simultaneous addition of a permanent light source such as the lantern. Otherwise we end up with a repeat of what happened when food decay was added but without a decent variety of ways to preserve it. Think of all the complaint threads that were made about food decay... We are looking at a repeat of this unless the new torch code is kept out of 79 until lanterns are developed and the two can be implemented "

"It's better to wait and release a complete system than to huridly push out half the mechanic and have months of confusion based on an incomplete and broken aspect of game play."

I suggest a system similar to xtrafirmacraft with 3 tiers of light sources to allow for progression-based game play. I agree that resource acquirement and expenditure should remain a major focus and forever-lights are a no-go. I'll explain my vision for each type of light source...

1) Torch

functions exactly as you have mentioned, although if more lasting light sources are also available the burn-time could be scaled down to compliment the alternative light options. (does not require metal-age)

2) Tallow Candle

craft string+ bowl = tallow candle (empty) can be placed and renders similar to a rock on the ground

animal fat is obtained from scraped hides and can be made via a heating mechanic and then collected into glass vials or bowls (does not require metal-age)

right clicking a full vial or bowl of tallow on a placed tallow candle will empty the vial/bowl and fill the candle which can then be lit (lasts longer than torch, right click to extinguish, possibly track fuel usage for re-lighting without the need to always re-fuel)

3) Brass Lantern

requires several stages of working on the anvil, then craft with a jute fiber for the wick (irl, adjusting the wick allows more flame so the brightness can be changed, I feel this would be a nice addition to game play)

can accept tallow (or olive oil if that's added which would be awesome) -it would need to track fuel usage

once lit, right clicking would cycle through 6 different light levels (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 0) -brighter lighting would consume fuel faster, a lantern on lowest setting could last 2-3 weeks and on brightest perhaps 4-6 days until re-fueling is needed

In conclusion

I think adding lanterns by themselves isn't needed because torches currently last forever. I think adding burnt out torches by themselves is a mistake because it imposes a serious limit on players without the possibility to improve the situation with extra effort. The best way to proceed would be to implement a complete and complimentary system. It wouldn't need quite this level of detail to be effective, this is just my idea of an ideal TFC lighting system.

You're right about people complaining no matter what, but when they do complain, don't we want a logical answer to give them?

If torches burn out without the addition of lanterns here is what will happen:

1) the devs will have added something entirely because it's realistic - a massive mistake that they reiterate countless times to people making realism-based suggestions.

2) the following months will be full of countless threads complaining about the lack of a permanent light source that kitty will have to police and merge and manage.

3) people who don't know it's a planned feature will constantly suggest adding lanterns and the community and kitty will have to reply to these people again and again explaining that they should be patient and pay attention to the devs newsletters.

4) this clogs up the forums with useless lighting complaints, stifling the useful and productive conversations, just like it did when food decay was added without a fleshed out preservation system to go along with it.

To restate the big issue, it's better to wait and release a complete system than to huridly push out half the mechanic and have months of confusion based on an incomplete and broken aspect of game play.

Yeah but when half the time spent in your base is spent blundering around in the dark trying to make some torches because they've all gone out for the 400th time it's going to suck all the fun out of living.

Obviously this decision wasn't made on a whim but for me the constant hunger management was enough to keep plenty busy on maintenance. I think this is starting to cross the line into the boredom zone where the game becomes about maintaining things like health and home instead of creative expression. Granted there should be a balance between the two, but personally this tips the scales in the wrong direction.

That being said I would take it all back if brass lanterns were added as a permanent (and maybe adjustable) light source. Actually, if that happened I would welcome burnt out torches with open arms, knowing there was a progression based alternative for my cabin and cellar to keep them cozy and lit when I come back from a risky caving adventure. Srsly tho... Please add adjustable brass lanterns.

Edit: before I'm misunderstood I feel I should elaborate... I'm aware that lanterns are a sort of planned feature, my main concern is that adding a time limit to torches REQUIRES the simultaneous addition of a permanent light source such as the lantern. Otherwise we end up with a repeat of what happened when food decay was added but without a decent variety of ways to preserve it. Think of all the complaint threads that were made about food decay... We are looking at a repeat of this unless the new torch code is kept out of 79 until lanterns are developed and the two can be implemented together.

it's a small boat, and if you didn't want to bring any friends, you could bring 1 chest and 1 barrel, or 2 barrels or a double chest

going back to this. Is there a plan to remove the ability to take full barrels in your inventory. I see no use for this feature unless that was the case. taking mobs instead of barrels seems like the practical option to me

 

I've just made the following change for Build 79

• Crucible accepts stack of items in input slot. If temp is hot enough, will melt one item from the stack every 2 seconds.
• Temperature still decreases by 10% each time an item is melted.
• Output slot still only accepts a single fired mold.

 

<3

I think instead of changing the purpose of the straw bed (Kitty is right, first-night time skipping is overpowered) we need a late-game solution for exploration. Perhaps a bedroll that is crafted with plenty of cloth and feathers along with a metal clasp (to make it unavailable to new players). To use the bedroll place it on the ground and then make a fire pit 1 block away. The amount of night time you skip should be equivalent to the collective burn times of the logs in the firepit GUI. In order to keep exploration a challenge I don't think any log type should be enough to skip the entire night. Even using 5 oak logs you would still wake up early enough for mobs to spawn (but just barely) so that you still have danger but without the annoyance of being forced to make a 2x2 straw hut and afk the night away for safety.

D&B are smart enough not to add something because of the first post in a thread that's been discussed to death many times before by the disillusioned and the impractical. If this was a NEW terrible idea then please, educate away. 

Guys. Suggestion forum rules. Please. Irrigation, aqueducts, ground water tables and wells have all been brought up before (several times)

If you have an idea on a subject, check to see if there is a thread about that topic, then post your idea as a reply.

 I'll just move out on this one. The best part of your idea kurz (imo) is the hotter temp. If I could work a little harder and make a big batch of something that would melt steel without the bellow blues I'd be happy. I think it would be prudent to also tweak the other current fuels to have more variety on this aspect in general. 

Yes I did. I don't see any conflict between them.

Welcome to the forums!

I would suggest that you read the RULES FOR POSTING SUGGESTIONS and edit your post and the title to comply, it'll put you in the good books and save the wiki admin the trouble of editing (deleting) a lot of your post. Suggestions are encouraged but try they try to keep things organized around here. 

As a general rule: When suggesting an item try to also suggest ways to make it useful and outline different ways it could be a valuable addition to progression based gameplay.

Coal coke is nice and all, but they aren't going to add it unless it's also really worth it.

I'm fairly certain the people who are intelligent enough to understand the basic economics at play in these hypothetical situations are also smart enough to realize that there is absolutely no need for a currency in the mod at this time.

Therefore, I don't really see much point in continually attempting to educate the people who post here demanding a money item without the smarts to read the plethora of existing posts explaining why it's not useful.

Not aiming this at any post or person in particular, it's just my general feeling towards this thread.

If anyone who reads this is about to post  "Add gold coins please! I would love gold coins for SMP!" Please check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense