Hardcore Mode

[Jed1314 420]

Firstly, before I possibly get jumped on with "This has been suggested before" I would like to point out the aim of this thread is to consolidate several suggestions which I feel would compliment each other excellently.

Now that that is out of the way:

Increased Difficulty

Basic premise: A large change which will feature several game adjustments to make this already challenging mod a kind of perversely enjoyable hell (maybe not that extreme)

Alternatively

These features could be implemented as an extra difficulty level

Features (these are all negotiable): Hunger (obviously), Thirst, Energy levels (e.g. need for sleep), illness and injury and temperature

Hunger: Already implemented (although suggestions for overhaul would be welcome)

Thirst:

Shown by a bar similar to the hunger bar on the HUD. The basic idea is that every player has a thirst bar. This will function almost identically to hunger, depleting faster during physical activity etc. Aditionally, drinks will help regulate body temperature away from overheating (as dehydration in severe cases can prevent bodily cooling functions such as sweating). Hot climates accelerate dehydration due to sweat. This introduces whole new challenges to the game, especially the desert regions.

Energy:

Shown by a bar (like hunger bar) either on the HUD or inventory interface, along with temperature. This is a hesitant suggestion at best because of the cluster f*ck that would be implementing this on a server. However, the idea is that players have limited energy and must sleep reasonably regularly to recover it. It will deplete faster when engaged in physical activity and when in cold climates (this is partially to balance the accelerated thirst in hot climes and partially because the body expends more energy in snowy and wet climates)

Tiredness will come with several debuffs at different levels: High - Random screen black outs occasionally Really High - Hallucinations a.k.a. Seeing monsters in the edge of vision etc. Maximum - Frequent black outs, vivid hallucinations, chance to fall asleep, leaving you vulnerable to attack by mobs

Illness and Disease: I can't explain this any better than the previous forum post by Devlin. 100% of credit for this section obviously goes to him and those who have contributed to this idea. http://terrafirmacra...edicine-system/

If Devlin is reading this and is interested in bundling their ideas into this post, I would be honoured to add their post to this OP

Temperature

Character temperature is indicated by a thermometer like scale placed (either on the HUD or inventory UI).

Being really hot or really cold could end on some serious damage on the health of the player.

We could have some methods of increasing/decreasing the temperature of the character by:

- Eating/Drinking. He could warm himself by eating hot food (or hot drinks, tea anybody ? ), but could cool himself by eating hydrating/cold food such as fruits and drinking cold cool drinks

- Shelter. We can get more hot going inside of a place with roof/walls. But as I said, the more deep you go, you should have a lower temperature, so a shelter on a cave, on the winter, on a Snow biome, is not THE perfect place to live, but since is a very cold biome, this could be good in any ways. For example, creating a snow house, like a iglu, could shelter you the same, but not very hot. You can live. ^-^

- Water. You can swim, and cool yourself. But, hot places like the desert, could have hotter water, so you can cool down, but not a lot. And entering water on the snow biome could have you really cold, rapidly cooling and giving debuffs relating to cold

-Exercise. Any physical activity will slightly increase the players temperature, up to a certain level ?

-Clothing. Could have an affect on the player temp. E.g. Warm clothes for cold weather, light and airy clothes for hot weather, no clothes bad for both ?

- The screen could have some visual changes when the player begin to the danger zones of the thermometer. The screen will shake a bit, when the player is too cold, and blur when too hot. The severity of these will increase as the distance into the danger zone increases

- After entering the hazard zone (Stages 1 and 10 of the thermometer), the player starts to slowly lose hearts. (In a slow mood, different of hunger, maybe 2x less.) Also possibly applies debuffs such as weakness and slowing.

The temperature of the player will change relatively slowly, meaning it takes time for the player to cool down/heat up

Many, many thanks to Horenpa for allowing me to add this to the thread. I have paraphrased some of your post and added some features, I hope this is ok ?

Mobs:

Neutral- Add aggressive wild cows and pig (aurochs and wild boar ?) which can be domesticated to cows and pigs, make wolves naturally hostile, and stronger (domesticated to dogs) OR leave them weaker and make them spawn in packs (with an alpha male ?)

Aggresive- Zombies more likely to spawn in groups, when a zombie from the group spot you, the others will go after you even if they can't see you, Give cave spiders better poison which could, rarely, give you nausea, blindness or others side effects.(perhaps instead of damage to prevent being too op) Slimes will slowly grow to huge size. The more slimes there are together in a certain radius the faster they will grow. (maybe give slimes small DOT effect due to acidity ?) Add Magma cubes give them same size boost as slimes and also heal when in/near lava/high temperature zone

Thanks to LordHaiv for his (awesome) assistance with the mob section

User Interface:

On the back of bsb23's excellent status bar solution, most or all of these status bars will be on another tab of your inventory window (or given their own window bound to a special key), to prevent UI clutter

Help me fill in the gaps !: A way to force players to utilize things like boats and minecarts, like inventory shrinking, but maybe less unpopular !

Additionally, if anyone suggests an idea which is generally liked, I will add it to the OP to ensure it is always accurate as to the suggestions goals

As before suggestions/criticism (constuctive preferably ) welcome and encouraged !

Edited 6 Jul 2012 by Jed1314

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

wasnt this all suggested for regular game modes?

this is all fine and dandy but i think that it shouldn't be just in hardcore

[Jed1314 420]

wasnt this all suggested for regular game modes?

this is all fine and dandy but i think that it shouldn't be just in hardcore

I only suggested it as a different game mode because I was under the impression there was wide spread resistance to some/all of these. I'll edit the OP to explain this

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Mobs more challenging? mmm...

Passive: more life and speed.

-Cows: As they are pretty big, give them the ability to go on stampedes when they are scared, possibly running over you.

Wolf&Zombiepigmen: Making them naturally hostile, along with higher life, damage and speed.

Hostile: Higher life, damage and speed.

-Creeper: make it explode quicker, and quieter -so it's harder to hear it about to explode behind you-. Also, make the explosion stronger.

-Skeleton: more accurate, fire arrows fastly, make it run away from you when you're too close.

-Zombie: more likely to spawn in groups, when a zombie from the group spot you, the others will go after you even if they can't see you. Higher armor.

-Spider: Will attack you whenever it spots you, even if it's exposed to day light. Higher jumps. Inmune to fall damage.

-Cave spider: Better poison which could, rarely, give you nausea, blindness or others side effects. It will only attack in groups.

-Endermen: Smarter, it can build up some traps. It will lure you -with himself- to the trap, and then, when you stand directly on it, it will take the block you're standing on, to make you fall in his pit. Then, he will teleport down there to finish of you. However, it can only have one trap per time, will take some time to build it, and won't lure you to it unless you're relativily close -max 32 blocks away, for example-

-Slimes: If they are not huge, and you give them some time, they will slowly grow to huge size. The more slimes there are together -in a 24 blocks radium-, the faster they will grow.

-Magma cube: Same as slimes, but it's also increased if there's lava near their spawn point.

-Ghasts: faster flying speed, there's a 50% chance of being unable to deflect their fireballs, the explosion is stronger.

[Jed1314 420]

Passive: more life and speed.

-Cows: I love the idea of semi aggressive cows ! In a similar vein do you think it would be a good idea to implement wild boar instead of pigs ?

Wolf&Zombiepigmen: I agree with the wolves being aggressive, but would shy away from increasing damage and health maybe because it just ends in really long, semi dull slugfests

Hostile: See above

-Creeper: I like this, I also think maybe taking from the idea in that mod I saw ages ago we could have creeper swarms ?

-Skeleton: I was thinking maybe adding a melee attack for skeletons, so that they are more versatile ? Your idea makes sense though

-Zombie: Armored zombie swarms ? I like I am definitely feeling roaming hoards of zombies in mismatched armor

-Spider: This all makes sense

-Cave spider: As does this

-Endermen: I like this, but would this not be really difficult to implement ?

-Slimes: Love this !

-Magma cube: Maybe heal in lava ?

-Ghasts: I'm pro this

As an aside, how does everyone feel about the following debuffs for sleep deprivation:

High - Random screen black outs occasionally

Really High - Hallucinations a.k.a. Seeing monsters in the edge of vision etc.

Maximum - Frequent black outs, vivid hallucinations, chance to fall asleep, leaving you vulnerable to attack by mobs

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Would love to see boars... maybe if you tame them, they turn into vanilla pigs :3

Also, i wasn't talking about a giant increase in their attack, speed, and health. In Vanilla minecraft, the mobs all have more or less life and damage, depending on the difficulty level. I was talking about something like that.

Creepers swarms? lovely, but... wouldn't it be a little too much? i mean, unless you're looking around you always, or you were always in safe locations, once the creepers swarms catch you there's no way to escape. Maybe if the noise they make could increase as more and more creepers are together, it would be balanced... maybe. Another thing: make creepers inmune to explosion damage.

If skeletons had a melee damage, since they only have they bare hands and a bow, it should be low. Still, i like the idea.

Endermens... :| it may be hard, but, if it's possible, wouldn't it be awesome? Also, the Herobrine mod already includes a mob which can build things up (giant "E"s, glass in the flour, can place tnt and lava... One time, he even build up a pretty complicated trap for me. Which was made of -aparently- some redstone components i had in my own house. either that, or he blowed up the redstone while i wasn't there...) , so i think it may be possible to do.

Magma cube: lol i forgot to write that...

I would add to the lack of sleep effects some slow movement, slow speed while trying to choose any item from the hotbar, difficulty to manage things up in the inventory, and even temporally forgetting an item/block recipe. That's like what normally happens to me after a whole night playing minecraft xD

EDIT: almost forgot; vanilla zombies do have some armor, even in easy...

[horenpa 14]

Is nice to adjust everything into one thing. What I did on my sugg. was to see all we could do with Temp., on-character and on-environment. A hardcore mode like this is obviosly aiming to change the character, and some minor changes to fit something, like adding drinks/a way to drink, make juice from fruits, etc.

I'm actually done with my sugg, I think it could grow more, but I already feel confortably with it. So we could just continue the on-character additions in here, no problem.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

creeper swarms

ALL OF MY NO

As an aside, how does everyone feel about the following debuffs for sleep deprivation:

High - Random screen black outs occasionally

Really High - Hallucinations a.k.a. Seeing monsters in the edge of vision etc.

Maximum - Frequent black outs, vivid hallucinations, chance to fall asleep, leaving you vulnerable to attack by mobs

oh gods... have herobrine randomly show up at the edge of the draw distance...

Fucking hell staying up too long would turn MC into silent fucking hill

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Fucking hell staying up too long would turn MC into silent fucking hill

LOL xDDDD it would be cool if the hallucinations actually gave a hint about future mobs, either from mineraft itself or terrafirmacraft. Like, i stayed awake for 16 hours, and at the edge of my vision i can see a brand new fucking giant lizard, which later i look up and realise it was a komodo dragon which would be soonly added. Just an example, not waiting for Bioxx or -insert minecraft creator name here- to actually add a komodo dragon...

[Jed1314 420]

ALL OF MY NO

oh gods... have herobrine randomly show up at the edge of the draw distance...

Fucking hell staying up too long would turn MC into silent fucking hill

I understand regarding the creeper swarms, on reflection that would be a walking, hissing mass griefing atrocity

I can't tell if that is pro hallucination or not ? .. I don't want to add anything the community at large isn't behind (P.S. It doesn't have to be as severe as that, although it would be an excellent 0 energy "you shouldn't have done this")

I have added Horenpa's temperature suggestion to the OP and also a couple of the mob difficulty enhancments, for your critical pleasure

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I understand regarding the creeper swarms, on reflection that would be a walking, hissing mass griefing atrocity

I can't tell if that is pro hallucination or not ? .. I don't want to add anything the community at large isn't behind (P.S. It doesn't have to be as severe as that, although it would be an excellent 0 energy "you shouldn't have done this")

I have added Horenpa's temperature suggestion to the OP and also a couple of the mob difficulty enhancments, for your critical pleasure

Oh I assure you, I am 100% behind the idea of adding negative effects (especially hallucinations) to not sleeping for long periods. I'm fairly luke warm to downright displeased with the rest of the suggestions, but that hallucination one is pure native gold. Wantwantwantwantwant

[horenpa 14]

Nice.

Just one thing: A lot of info on my thread talk about the "thermometer". People that don't had read my thread will be confuse on what you are talking about. That is the meter that I created, so if you like, just throw it away the mentions of it, since is just one idea for GUI. You can just delete it, or think on a better way, maybe putting all into Calendar? I don't know. Do it as you wish, seriosly. xD

[Jed1314 420]

Nice.

Just one thing: A lot of info on my thread talk about the "thermometer". People that don't had read my thread will be confuse on what you are talking about. That is the meter that I created, so if you like, just throw it away the mentions of it, since is just one idea for GUI. You can just delete it, or think on a better way, maybe putting all into Calendar? I don't know. Do it as you wish, seriosly. xD

I really liked your thermometer concept, my only possible suggestion is to move the thermo into the inventory/character screen I will edit and fix this

Oh I assure you, I am 100% behind the idea of adding negative effects (especially hallucinations) to not sleeping for long periods. I'm fairly luke warm to downright displeased with the rest of the suggestions, but that hallucination one is pure native gold. Wantwantwantwantwant

Glad you like some of it, regarding the stuff you don't like, personal feelings of dislike toward the concept or can you think of a way to improve it to your liking ? tell me which bits you don't like. My aim is to make this everyone's idea so to speak

Cleaned up OP, added details on indicator bars for stat levels and added sleep deprivation debuff specifics

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Don't know what to do with minecarts, but how about -as vanilla Steve just stand on nothing and moves on instead of swimming- make it so you're unable to swim, so you can go in one block deep water, but you're likely to drown in 2 blocks or 3 blocks deep pool. Then, traveling across any ocean would be a complete suicide if you don't use boats. Maybe in the normal survival mode, you can learn how to sleep, but in hardcore it's impossible? -don't ask me how would you learn to swim, i don't really know xDU-

EDIT: something i just realised, if the boat crashes in a surface-swimming squid or thse aquatic plants in swamps, you're simply screwed... So, how about, if made of a hard -and heavy- wood, the boat is harder to break -so it can resist 3 crashes with something, for example- but slower, and if it's made out of soft but light wood, is as weak as a vanilla boat -or even worse-, but prety much faster?

[Jed1314 420]

Don't know what to do with minecarts, but how about -as vanilla Steve just stand on nothing and moves on instead of swimming- make it so you're unable to swim, so you can go in one block deep water, but you're likely to drown in 2 blocks or 3 blocks deep pool. Then, traveling across any ocean would be a complete suicide if you don't use boats. Maybe in the normal survival mode, you can learn how to sleep, but in hardcore it's impossible? -don't ask me how would you learn to swim, i don't really know xDU-

EDIT: something i just realised, if the boat crashes in a surface-swimming squid or thse aquatic plants in swamps, you're simply screwed... So, how about, if made of a hard -and heavy- wood, the boat is harder to break -so it can resist 3 crashes with something, for example- but slower, and if it's made out of soft but light wood, is as weak as a vanilla boat -or even worse-, but prety much faster?

It would be a shame to stop people swimming, as I feel the oceans are a wasted potential area of great beauty and excitement ! (and how would you kill squid ? ) I think maybe limiting the time you can swim for somehow ? Just had a thought actually ! The cold temperature of the sea may well have fixed this for us to a degree ! If the sea is cold (which it usually is) the player will get cold and die if they swim for too long

I don't understand your post about the minecarts mate :S Sorry

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

ALL OF MY NO

oh gods... have herobrine randomly show up at the edge of the draw distance...

Fucking hell staying up too long would turn MC into silent fucking hill

-hears walking beheind me-

-is afraid to turn around-

-hears meowing-

-its just my cat-

-sigh of releif-

[Jed1314 420]

That could be another aspect of hallucinations. You could hear sounds of mobs like creepers hissing randomly, even if there are no monsters

Also, added bsb's ingenious solution to HUD overcrowding, as well as a mock up of the UI (appologies for the poor quality, I'm not an artist :L)

[SeanyGlass 14]

The hallucinations sound awesome... Except with something like this, you should be able to make beds easier and sleep on the ground. It wouldn't be fair to the player if they couldn't find sheep for a week of starting playing so then they started hallucinating.

Edit: although there should be some incentive for sleeping in higher quality beds... Maybe more sleep restoration?

[Jed1314 420]

The hallucinations sound awesome... Except with something like this, you should be able to make beds easier and sleep on the ground. It wouldn't be fair to the player if they couldn't find sheep for a week of starting playing so then they started hallucinating.

Edit: although there should be some incentive for sleeping in higher quality beds... Maybe more sleep restoration?

I agree 100%. I always thought the need for a bed was a bit stupid anyway. Some insulation would be needed, but it could be something as simple as leaves

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

It would be a shame to stop people swimming, as I feel the oceans are a wasted potential area of great beauty and excitement ! (and how would you kill squid ? ) I think maybe limiting the time you can swim for somehow ? Just had a thought actually ! The cold temperature of the sea may well have fixed this for us to a degree ! If the sea is cold (which it usually is) the player will get cold and die if they swim for too long

I don't understand your post about the minecarts mate :S Sorry

Post about minecarts? ._. i haven't said anything about them... only that i can't think in any way to force player to use them. Beside maybe when travelling in minecart, you don't spend as much energy as when walking, so it's great for large distance travels which would last maybe weeks by walking -since you would need some rest occasionally-.

And i strongly agree with Seany. Maybe, tier 0 beds are the ground itself -or a leaves bed-, tier 1 would be a pile of wool over stone-cobblestone...

And vanilla bed would be tier 2. No ideas for the other tiers ._. maybe we should take a look at the beds's history, where our ancestors sleeped along the ages until the XVI century -as Bioxx said nothing from the last 400 years would be in the mod... i think ._. -

[Jed1314 420]

Post about minecarts? ._. i haven't said anything about them... only that i can't think in any way to force player to use them. Beside maybe when travelling in minecart, you don't spend as much energy as when walking, so it's great for large distance travels which would last maybe weeks by walking -since you would need some rest occasionally-.

And i strongly agree with Seany. Maybe, tier 0 beds are the ground itself -or a leaves bed-, tier 1 would be a pile of wool over stone-cobblestone...

And vanilla bed would be tier 2. No ideas for the other tiers ._. maybe we should take a look at the beds's history, where our ancestors sleeped along the ages until the XVI century -as Bioxx said nothing from the last 400 years would be in the mod... i think ._. -

I don't know how many advancements there were in bed technology over the TFC time frame Straw mattresses ?

There would indeed need to be a tier 0 bed

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

So, for getting it straight, the last gap you let to fill it's actually already partially solved because of the features of the hardcore mode you propose: you need boats for traveling across the oceans, because they are too cold for you to swim through them without dying from hypothermia, and you need minecarts for traveling long distances, because doing it by foot would take much much longer -it could take you weeks only to go to your deep undergroud mine, get something to go back with and get back up, if all this is done by foot-. Also, if some of your minecarts have chests on them, you could carry all the ore from those giant veins at once, that beign even more time efficient.

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

Yes, that is what I am saying

[horenpa 14]

Will be awesome to see some mine elevator to some future evolution age on TFC.

So going down a mine shaft and going back could be easier and faster.

[Brotherly_bro 7]

not liking the body temp idea, seems too complex. I would like that if you were in an environment too cold, or too hot, you would get hungry quicker.