Storage woes

[TheBlindPeople 31]

So, inventory management.

Minecraft is built around harvesting the world around you to build what you want. It's the central mechanic the game is built around. The inventory system chosen to handle this is a grid of slots whose strength is visually showing what the material is and quick/easy implementation. This system has the flaw of slots being exclusive to one item type. A half stack of cobble cannot also hold a half stack of dirt, despite taking the same space. Picking up a single flower suddenly removes the ability to hold 64 items. Thus why we have a huge inventory. Having a slot filled isn't as much a tedious issue that detracts from the game. (And the countless stacks of cobble)

Terrafirmacraft appears to be made with the design decision of scarce resources and making the choice of what is really important in ones inventory. It hopes to push the issue via small inventories that don't have room for some flower you won't use. But this is directly contradictory to the addition of dozens of different types of wood/stone/ores/metals/eventually plants, which creates a massive problem of inventory management and self-consistency.

Objects don't stack with eachother. A chest full of single stacks of different stones cannot fit a single seed, where a chest full of stacks of stones except one slot can fit anvils. This effect is magnified by the tons of different objects added that don't stack together. It makes the restriction of ones inventory somewhat clumsy.

So that's the concept behind this idea. Different inventory types, basic prototypes being a Bin and a Shelf to deal with both massive stacks of junk and small quantities of valuables.

The Bin would be a simple cheap construction for handling mass quantities of items at the cost of accessibility. Instead of having a UI where you can pick what you want items are dropped in from the top and added to a stack that works FILO. The Bin would handle some maximum amount and would not care about different item types. Retrieving items from the bin would just collect whatever was last deposited on the stack.

The purpose of this item is to handle mass quantities of stone. The mechanic of having limited access to the stored inventory makes it impratical for general storage needs like a chest, but for stones this isn't a problem. We just use all stones for the same purpose, and we have a ton of the stuff.

The Shelf would be the opposite. It would have a good number of inventory slots but only allow limited stacks in those slots. Stone would only stack to 1/some multiple of 2, whatever is decided works out.

Where the bin is made to handle mass storage indiscrimiately, the shelf provides a place for those small stacks of rare items. All those gems one picks up, small amounts of leftover supplies, tools and rare supplies.

I'm sorta aware of problems this could create in already existing systems, like if the shelf stacks up to four it could be a denser storage system for wood than log piles, or bins having to work funkily to be more space effecient than chests for stone yet still be impratical for other objects. I guess limitiing bulk items from the shelf like wood, stone, ores and dirt could work, but it seems a little heavy-handed and arbitrary. Or items could fill the bin at different rates so logs would fill the same space in a bin as a stack of stone. I'm sure we could find a happy medium for these basic concepts.

In summary, expanded storage options would serve to alleviate the headache of dealing with an inventory sytem that does not work well with a massive variety of items. It would provide additional mechanics and expand how the player works with their storage.

Oh, also replace the current recipe for chests with crates. 3x3 inventory. Chests would use more expensive materials/techniques and could like, be locked? I just want an excuse to have crates, which don't really have a place in vanilla Minecraft.

[ancientpower 32]

I love the idea of the bin, but it would work a lot better as a specialized storage method. It could be limited to dirt, stone, and ores, perhaps. I can imagine having a few bins full of the stones I use the most, outside and ready for construction projects, and a bin or two outside a bloomery for inputting ore.

I think the shelf should be able to store maybe stacks of 8 or so items under a certain size threshold that can be inferred by the player. Flowers/gems/etc would be good indicators of what size items would fit there, like you said.

These are both great ideas, and perfect for the plan of moving away from generalized storage like chests.

[Platoonsgt1 4]

The bin could even not have a set limit of item types, but rather, it's inconvenient to store different ones because you can only get the last one that you put in out (and so on). This could even be developed into really quick storage, using the 'drop item' key (default 'Q') to store items, and right-click to withdraw items.

The bin will appear to be filling up as large numbers of items are added, possibly using the texture of gravel? it would hold about 10-15 stacks per block, and would not combine (to avoid the placement restrictions of chests)

The shelves could work in a similar way, but have specific slots in them depending on where you right-click. These items would not stack what so ever, but could easily be found, and picked up, by using right-click (On an occupied slot). If you right-click an unoccupied slot with an item in your hand, the item is stored.

Items on shelves will have to be visible for this to work. I'm imagining this as a piece of material (wood?) hanging off of a wall with string, not Risugami's shelf mod. These could be placed on a wall (like a trapdoor) and would hold about 4-9 items/block

Further expanding this, you could then make bin minecarts (that work as implied) and shelf or display minecarts (work like shelves, but changed to work better in a minecart.

Even further expanding it, you could have mini-chests that could be placed on shelves holding 4-9 items each (no stacks), while only taking up one slot on the shelf. The gui would have a remove button to take it off the shelf, which would attempt to withdraw all items in the process, or drop them if it fails. You wouldn't be able to see the contents of these mini-chests.

And just to say, the development team is perfectly capable of limiting to a single item in a specific slot, just try the forge/anvil etc. guis (although they failed a bit at 16 stacks, no offense. It could just be shift-clicking though, that's rarely used for non-chest guis)

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

+1 to you good sir.

When I first read this topic title, my first reaction was "Great, another new guy bitching about the storage system and making idiot suggestions that break game balance..."

But no. Of all the dozens of threads I've seen trying to make storage easier, this is the only halfway intelligent one. Kudos to you sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar and I love your bin/shelf setup.

[VictorianPunk 7]

+1 From Me

I really like this idea seeing as how chests have been . . . . killed. >w>

I would be nice to have other way of storing items.

I tend to run around with lots of items (do to Steve being able to hold more Items then a box made to hold items =w=).

[Ulfengaard 44]

+1

Great idea. I really like the feel of this storage system: more organic.

[Bedgar 13]

I could see these replacing chests completely. Chests would become a sort of private storage for SMP.

[GCountach 39]

I don't know about the shelves, for the reasons you stated, but I absolutely love the bin idea. A quick and dirty way to empty all the stone and dirt I have in my inventory would be great.

[Shinxy 1]

Oh, also replace the current recipe for chests with crates. 3x3 inventory. Chests would use more expensive materials/techniques and could like, be locked? I just want an excuse to have crates, which don't really have a place in vanilla Minecraft.

This, right here, for a good simple reason: crates could be put against one another.

To make a short post, you know the Iron Chests mod, and how chests, even of the same type, never form double chests? Basically that, but with these 3x3 storage crates. I'd love this more than anything right now.

Pretty sweet other ideas you got going there, especially the bins. Just wanted to give you an idea on how crates could be given a reason to be in the game.

[TheBlindPeople 31]

+1 to you good sir.

When I first read this topic title, my first reaction was "Great, another new guy bitching about the storage system and making idiot suggestions that break game balance..."

But no. Of all the dozens of threads I've seen trying to make storage easier, this is the only halfway intelligent one. Kudos to you sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar and I love your bin/shelf setup.

I am bitching about the storage system, I'm just acting like I somehow know my stuff instead of raging out.

The current inventory system is dumb. This is fine and not a problem because this is a mod in development and that's just a placeholder. A system with actual rewarding mechanics and depth will come eventually. I just want people to know that what we have should not be permanent.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

probably adding a new storage device with even less inventory space when construction comes out. (also, chests will be more late game)

hope this solves your problem

[Jed1314 420]

Well, I was going to say something constructive, but seeing as Dunk has pretty much laid this one to rest....

Ah fuck it here it goes:

I really love the idea of "bin" based storage, especially for raw materials such as stone, ore etc. Total +1 on that.

As for the shelves, I can definitely see what you are aiming for with them, and I can totally support the ideal behind them, but they would have to be implemented right.

I would imagine them to be cheap to construct and stackable, but with little storage space AND few slots as an individual unit. This way, the low stack sizes would discourage abuse of the shelves stacking mechanic, but they would be more realistic, as shelves are really *very* limited in their storage capacity unless the items are specifically prepared for shelf storage (aka boxed).

All in all a great suggestion. You have my +1 !

[bsb23 303]

I like the bin idea also, maybe we could make it into a structure just a hole in the ground that would become a bin with a "lid" added on top, the deeper it went the more storage it would have. I could see this working like the forge where you just toss things in and the pile slowly rises. Although there is one problem with my idea, if the hole was super deep, how would you reach the stuff at the bottom?

[WereMops 0]

I like the bin storage idea, I had an idea regarding storage (which is why I finally signed up on the forum) that could be used to expand your idea.

I'm actually not sure how feasible my idea is but considering how the forge, firepit, bloomery and charcoal pit is made it might be possible.

It's based on the premise that you create an enclosure with fences to store stuff in, let's say 4 by 4, and you throw a full stack of whatever material you want that enclosure/storage space to be able to hold into the enclosure and then rightclick on the fence with some kind of tool (hammer, "construction tool", engineering tool or maybe have a special fence gate that you need to create) which would transform the area inside the fences to a storage area,if you used rock items it would be a cobble pile, if it's coal it would be a coal pile, if it's ingots it would be like the gold bar stacks that most have seen on tv, "decorative" smooth stone would stack up neatly etc and the stackst would get bigger the more you add to them (up to a limit ofcoarse, they can't hold infinite items after all).

That way storage will take up space, can be nicelly organized and still be somewhat believable.

[Johnny_Madhouse 28]

I would love to see the shelves, especially if they had the ability (as other shelf mods have) to display items stored on them. That would be a great way to display gems and nice tools and the like!

[Rashkonn 0]

I would love to see the shelves, especially if they had the ability (as other shelf mods have) to display items stored on them. That would be a great way to display gems and nice tools and the like!

There is a Mod for that already, but I don't think it works with non Vanilla items. Also one that displays Armours, but once again, non vanilla items...

Its in the same page you get the Mod Loader from afaik/remember...

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

There is a Mod for that already, but I don't think it works with non Vanilla items. Also one that displays Armours, but once again, non vanilla items...

Its in the same page you get the Mod Loader from afaik/remember...

Yes, Risugami

[Enzer 60]

There is a Mod for that already, but I don't think it works with non Vanilla items. Also one that displays Armours, but once again, non vanilla items...

Its in the same page you get the Mod Loader from afaik/remember...

True, another mod has done this already, but I really hate the idea of relying on additional mods and it more often than not would not help those playing on a MP server. I would rather see as much structure added to TFC that you wouldn't have to keep stepping back and going, well, I guess I'll have to add a few more mods to make up for whats not here. I see this kind of reply a lot in suggestion topics, which doesn't make much sense since we are suggesting things to be added. Maybe I'm just a little picky, but I also don't want to be dependant on multiple mods update schedules and have to worry if one update breaks the other mod or if TFC continues to become so departed from vanilla MC (and I think this is a good thing) that you wouldn't be able to craft anything from other mods.

Anyway, back to storage suggestions. I am totally for having more storage options than just chests. I would like to see the player be able to craft stone, or better yet, clay bins (pottery wheel anyone?) that were one block wide and two blocks tall. I like TheBlindPeople's original suggestion of FIFO stacking for bins as it would make sense. It is there to cram items in, not a place to sort your stuff into.

I would like to see crates as well used to store single items in bulk (limited to certain items such as smoothed stone, bricks, stuff that stacks well). Small crates would be a 1x1 sized object and could hold up to a double chests worth of a singlar item type that would be believably stackable (again, lets say stone bricks). Crates could be picked up by convetional minecraft method of punching it enough until it pops. Unlike a chest, the crate isn't destroyed, it instead drops an objected called "Crated ______ Stone Bricks" (or whatever it happens to be holding). This allows you to shift your storage around, crates would also be physically stackable in the real world and would be affected by gravity (maybe make it so you can't lift a crate that has anotehr crate ontop of it). You would access the contents of a crate via right clicking it to recieve X ammount of items directing into your personal inventory.

Crates would be made using the new wooden planks and possibly something like wrought iron bars to reinforce it (crafting recipie would be something like 3 planks across the top, 3 bars across the middle and 3 planks across the bottom). This gives up an Empty Crate object. Placing it allows you to start filling in the crate, the first acceptable item you place into the crate changes it into "Opened Crated ____". In this state you can continue to fill the crate until it is full, after that you have to use a hammer and nails to seal the crate ("Sealed Crated ____" or just "Crated ____"), this allows you to pick up the crate and move it about. Opening a closed crate would require a tool, for now the chisel could work to pry it open, this allows you to remove items from the crate again, when done you would have to hammer it shut once more.

The whole idea for the crate would be to create a compact system to store items you will eventually be getting a ton of for long periods of time (between massive stone structures or what have you, this could work for support beams as well and would be a great utility in SMP play where an exploratory mining team goes out into the wilderness with a bunch of crates materials, allowing them to stay out longer doing their jobs).