Armor and Padding

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

so i was thinking the other day and realized that in skyrim(just an example) the steel boots arent completely made of steel, they are pretty much leather boots with a plate of steel more or less over the front of them, this got me thinking for TFC, armor would need some kind of padding at least

so maybe for the armor peices, you would need to fit them around a leather peice of that same armor, so if you made a bronze chestplate, you would need to put a leather chestpiece in there as padding. then you could forge the different peices of the armor seperately and fit them around the leather with straps

or if that doesnt work, we could add a "padding" item, which is made of wool and feathers and leather or something of the kind, and use that for making your armor

of course this would make armor a lot more expensive, but it fits better with my ideas for combat, where without, armor, you are extremely vulnerable, but with it, you are much stronger and can actually fight mobs

also, there could be "full helmets" instead of the silly little hats that minectaft uses now, these would cover your full head, and protect you better, but would impair your vision kinda like putting a pumpkin on your head

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

i'm actually ok with making the armour more expensive; as for now, if you manage to use a full wrought iron armor, you're pretty much invincible -unless you fall from a cliff. Into a lava pool. With ghasts and creepers. And a somehow angry wolf.(?)-. That makes red/blue steel things pretty much useless, as wrought iron things are like vanilla diamond on steroids. The armor should either be rebalanced, or make it far harder to make. At least, that's what i think.

So yeah, +1 to this idea.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

+2

[fred da kiko 28]

+1 i've always hated the idea of "lol, you're wearing pure steel" in regards to armor, especially how prevalent it is in games.

[Buzhwaz 17]

+1 more from me. I like everything but the wonky vision through the helmet. The tfc world is too fun to look at. I probably would never use anything that obstructed my vision. Maybe if i could flip the visor up and down somehow.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

+1 more from me. I like everything but the wonky vision through the helmet. The tfc world is too fun to look at. I probably would never use anything that obstructed my vision. Maybe if i could flip the visor up and down somehow.

that would let your eyes unprotected o_o you don't want an arrow in the eye, don't you?

[rbdyck 8]

I used to be part of the SCA, a medieval recreation society. They fought in real steel armour, and used wooden swords and foam rubber axes. Actually the swords were ratan wrapped in duct tape. It looked sort of metal, and had the same weight and balance as a real medieval broadsword. They fought full speed and full force. Trust me, you want padding in your helmet. Mine was a medieval helm (full head coverage), not a helmet (partial head coverage). When someone trained in martial arts hits you in the head as hard as he can swing it, you want padding. My helm had two layers of 3/8" closed cell foam around the crown of my head and the top, around my face and back of my head was a single layer. Inside that I had one layer of 2" open cell foam. My helm got dents from the hits. I haven't participated in a few years, after getting a bruise on my thigh that went from hip to knee I decided I'm too old for this sort of thing.

In period, medieval warriors used simpler padding inside their helm. Either a cloth cap filled with wool or cotton batting, or just straw. I can't imaging going into combat with just straw padding inside my helm, but they did. Since this game is based on old stuff, here are a couple helmets from history.

. . . . . . . . .

The first is Corrinthian, named for the Greek city. It was used throughout ancient Greece, and many other cultures after. The second is Roman. Then Trojan. The next is Norman. The big one is a medieval barrel helm, from the cruisades, the one that my SCA helm was based upon. Then a German Sallet, and the last is assyrian. Notice all but the cruisader helm and Sallet did not cover the eyes, they ensured clear vission. You need to see your opponent in combat. And even the Sallet did not cover the mouth, you need to breathe. The barrel helm was used from 1220 to 1540, the Sallet was used in the 15th century. Others are older. In fact the Minecraft "silly hat" provides more coverage over the back of the head than a Norman helmet.

If you want to see, padding worn under a medieval barrel helm looked like this:

You do have to keep the game simplified to make it playable. TerraFirmaCraft is much more detailed than vanilla Minecraft, but how detailed do you want? I would argue that helmet detail is just a "skin" or texture pack.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

You do have to keep the game simplified to make it playable. TerraFirmaCraft is much more detailed than vanilla Minecraft, but how detailed do you want? I would argue that helmet detail is just a "skin" or texture pack.

That's true, but there are some things that require a little more complication and detail in order to balance things up. As i already said in an upper post, the armor is right now pretty unbalanced, and doesn't encourage you in any way -other than the pro looking- to advance to black/red/blue steel, as the wrought iron is already good enought. If it's included in a simple but correct way, the padding could help to balance things, although it's not a complete solution.

[Jed1314 420]

And even the Sallet did not cover the mouth, you need to breathe.

Great post ! I only really have one issue with it, which is this statement above.

Sallets were worn with a bevor to provide full coverage:

So the final assembled piece would look like this:

Sallets may not have covered your mouth, but the bevor did. All full helms provide adequate ventilation to breathe in

Armour is waaayyyyyy OP right now. Rather than nerfing it, I feel we should improve weapons against armour. I like the fact it is impossible to punch a man in full steel plate to death, it makes sense

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

that would let your eyes unprotected o_o you don't want an arrow in the eye, don't you?

I used to be a miner like you...

[bsb23 303]

What about layers of armor? Give a little more control of it, this goes along with an old thread about limiting the inventory, the one where it was suggested that multiple layers of poaches, belts, and so forth would be worn to get that back into place. I might necro that now.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I used to be a miner like you...

'til you became an iron miner :3

[rbdyck 8]

Sallets were worn with a bevor to provide full coverage:

Point well taken. Sorry for not looking that up.

All full helms provide adequate ventilation to breathe in

My SCA helm did not provide adequate ventilation. I regretted going with a closed face helm instead of an open face helm with bars. I found I started panting as soon as I put the helmet on. But that was the last piece of armour I put on, and my metabolism is slightly high. In high school biology class we measured heart rate, blood pressure, pulse, etc. Mine was the second highest in the class. Pardon me for talking from first hand experience.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

What about layers of armor? Give a little more control of it, this goes along with an old thread about limiting the inventory, the one where it was suggested that multiple layers of poaches, belts, and so forth would be worn to get that back into place. I might necro that now.

Oh please don't... that idea is such a clusterfuck...

[bsb23 303]

Too late, I even made a brief speech not a bad one if i do say so myself.

Edit: the idea was very flawed but with a little work it could make this game much more interesting (or it could miserably die we will find out soon enough).

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

you have no idea how long we've toyed with this lol. Way back when TFC was in an early alpha, and were working on an early precursor, we had armour layers, so that you would have to wear a padded doublet with mail on top and plate strapped to it, there was a whole number of different things, but it ended that you were wearing 12 individual pieces or armour instead of 4. Eventually we scrapped the whole thing.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

you have no idea how long we've toyed with this lol. Way back when TFC was in an early alpha, and were working on an early precursor, we had armour layers, so that you would have to wear a padded doublet with mail on top and plate strapped to it, there was a whole number of different things, but it ended that you were wearing 12 individual pieces or armour instead of 4. Eventually we scrapped the whole thing.

I say just make it so that you have to craft a generic 'padding' item to an unfinished _armorPieceHere_ 3 or whatever to get the finished armor item

[Jed1314 420]

My SCA helm did not provide adequate ventilation. I regretted going with a closed face helm instead of an open face helm with bars.

-snip-

Pardon me for talking from first hand experience.

Hm, that might just be a personal experience thing, or maybe a point of perspective. When I refer to "adequate" I mean that you do not fall unconcious due to restricted breathing At any rate, I generally fight slower with heavier weapons, so maybe I don't exhert myself as much

Don't apologise for talking first hand :L I'm a reenactor as well, and I do it all the time

[Jed1314 420]

you have no idea how long we've toyed with this lol. Way back when TFC was in an early alpha, and were working on an early precursor, we had armour layers, so that you would have to wear a padded doublet with mail on top and plate strapped to it, there was a whole number of different things, but it ended that you were wearing 12 individual pieces or armour instead of 4. Eventually we scrapped the whole thing.

Aw damn, that is a shame :/ Still, it makes sense from a gameplay perspective I guess, especially if there was no reason not to wear all 12 pieces :S

I say just make it so that you have to craft a generic 'padding' item to an unfinished _armorPieceHere_ 3 or whatever to get the finished armor item

That sounds like a reasonable solution, it would add just a little extra difficulty in making armour (which should really be a total luxury item )

[Jed1314 420]

I have something to add. It's been said countless times before, but armour is too OP. I just got close to killing a full swarm of 64 zombie pigmen in wrought iron armour. What stopped me ? My weapon broke.

[bsb23 303]

Were the armor layers different slots or a single slot?

[sdbaynham 57]

I think everyone agrees that armor should be nerfed- maybe not a ton (I'd rather have bigger stuff to fight for the most part), but a point blank creeper explosion should at least do SOME damage. And PVP servers are silly once everyone's wearing steel. Adding inherent armor penetration to higher-tier weaponry rather than additional damage (maybe maces get the bonus damage, making them better versus mobs, and swords get the bonus penetration, making them better versus players) would be nice. Also getting higher-tier bows with the butchery update would be incredible! I want to re-enact Agincourt in Minecraft!

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I have something to add. It's been said countless times before, but armour is too OP. I just got close to killing a full swarm of 64 zombie pigmen in wrought iron armour. What stopped me ? My weapon broke.

...how the fuck did you find zombie pigmen...

[Jed1314 420]

...how the fuck did you find zombie pigmen...

Spawn eggs .. I threw down a whole stack and attacked one of them while shouting "come at me brah !" .. It was glorious

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

...how the fuck did you find zombie pigmen...

1- go to the lava level with some buckets of water. Mine an extended crater.

2- mine obsidian in this way:

OXOXO

XOXOX

OXOXO

XOXOX

OXOXO

3- If you still hadn't get enough obsidian, throw more water into the holes you left

4- Mine the left overs of obsidian

5a- Fight with zombies until you get a vanilla iron bar, take flint and make some vanilla flint and steel. Build you nether portal.

6a- Light it. Congratulations, you have access to the Nether.

5b- Left unmined some obsidian at the border of the first big hole -minimun 4 in a straight line-, build the nether portal using that.

6b- Mine the borders of the hole. You're supposed to find at least one lava source block at the same level the obsidian is. In this way:

X_________XXXX

X_________X__X

X_________X__X

X_________X__X

XL________XLLX

X=obsidian, L=lava

6c: Place some wooden logs over the lava, in the place the rock used to be. The wooden blocks will eventually start burning, meaning fire blocks will form in all it's uncovered sides. The nether portal checks for fire blocks for activating, so once the wood starts burning, if one of the fire blocks appears at the side of the portal, it will activate; you just have to be patient. Congratulations, you have access to the Nether.

5d: build your portal, place a fire pit next to the entrace of it, start the fire pit and place a log pile above it. Be patient, it may take some time and many many log piles for this to work, but it will eventually work. Congratulations, you have access to the Nether.

...Either all that, or he just went in creative