Oopyuman's Suggestions (which gives no indication as to what is actually discussed here)

[Azdoine 218]

1.Torches run out

Placed torches will run out after a certain time from being placed. They will still be on the walls, but they won't produce any light at all (or if you like, they will produce a decreasingly amount of light depending on how much time has passed) and they will require another torch, or a firestarter to be lit back up.

So it's normal torches, except every time you come home, you have to manually click on ALL of the torches in your house with a firestarter?

And that's not even considering the bill your rack up from hiring an exterminator to take care of your new creeper problem.

2.Elevators

I know that you think that elevators aren't for this period of time, but I'm speaking of primitive elevators. My concept probably wouldn't be liked by all of you but here it is:

Elevator itself has 3 parts. One is the actual wooden platform, another one is the rope system, and the other one is the block, or a rotative lever which puts the elevator into function. To balance it all, the elevator will require a medium amount of resources. They will require rope, wood, grease, and some stone.

The elevator will be only for two or more persons, one will action the lever to lower/raise the elevator, and the other ones will be in it.

So like the better than wolves elevator, except you need a friend to help controll the elevator? That's not fun.

Try a ladder.

3.Miscellaneous

• Pocket&Placeable clocks
• Mirrors

There's a huge clock always ticking and tocking over your head, all the time. It's called the sun.

F5.

4.Darker nights

Nights appear to be too bright, even with moody brightness, and nothing stops me (and my server friends) to do activities at night. It's the same as the day!

Dude... Night isn't actually pitch black. Are you telling me Steve shouldn't have any rod cells in his retina?

[Treyflix 277]

Oopsy, posted that right as jag posted his.

Very well put jag, I agree. You have converted me haha

And arch, don't call me a sourpuss. Just don't.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

And that's not even considering the bill your rack up from hiring an exterminator to take care of your new creeper problem.

there wont be creepers in your house because they wont spawn in there unless you decide to live in an ancient crypt

[Azdoine 218]

there wont be creepers in your house because they wont spawn in there unless you decide to live in an ancient crypt

His sggestion seemed to be based off of the current version of TFC.

[Treyflix 277]

His sggestion seemed to be based off of the current version of TFC.

His suggestion? This has gone beyond him. Besides he is t even close to the first to suggest that.

Also to jag regarding all your tiers, I agree, however just playing devils advocate here, how do we know when it's to much tedium?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Well, as of right now, and as stated as Bioxx, we are all beta-testers. In this case, the only way we do have to know wherever this adds or not too much tedium is play-testing it. So... i guess you can do the maths.

Unless someone decide to test it before it goes into the mod. Let's say, every 10 minutes, he/she breaks any torch he/she placed, trash the obtained items and then replaced them; then, that same player is given a way to go to the nether so it can look for glowstone as a more permanent but yet hardly obtainable lighting source -a pseudo-tier 1 lighting source, just for testing sake.- . The one that decides to try this will be the only one that can actually tell wherever this is too tedious or not.

[Treyflix 277]

Keep in mind, in order for that test to be entirely accurate, it would have to be with the crypts/hostile bears/wolves.

I don't know, it still strikes me as extremely tedious. Lamps would have to last a lot longer I think.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Well... yeah, they would certainly last a lot longer. Specially because, unlike torches, you could refill their fuel while they were running, so if you cared enought, they wouldn't end up turning off.

Even though, it also depends both in how many tiers you want for lighitng sources, and where in this tier system are the lamps placed. If they are tier 2 in a 0-7 tiers system, don't expect them to be extremely good; yet, they would be notably superior to the previous tiers.

And about the test, you could take Mo' creatures and take advantage of the mob spawning options it gives the player, plus the versions of those mobs it already has. Set all fantastical mobs spawn rates to 0, while letting the difficult at normal. If a creature is gonna attack you while near a torch, change to peaceful and then to normal again; however, you can't do so if you are away from the light of anything.

[Treyflix 277]

So say torches are tier 0, candles are tier 1, and lamps are tier 2. What else then?

[Azdoine 218]

I don't know... I want to like this idea, but it's just not feasible with the current mob spawn and light system.

[achartran 465]

thing is, it has been confirmed mob spawn will change, this likely wouldn't be implemented until after that change.

[Treyflix 277]

I don't know... I want to like this idea, but it's just not feasible with the current mob spawn and light system.

Oh totally, this is all hypothetically following the hosts mobs update.

[Azdoine 218]

thing is, it has been confirmed mob spawn will change, this likely wouldn't be implemented until after that change.

Yeah, that's why I said current spawn system.

Also, I don't think candles should be much better than torches. It's more of an aesthetic difference in my eyes, a way to show your swag.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

So say torches are tier 0, candles are tier 1, and lamps are tier 2. What else then?

some form of glowstone based lighting, like glowstone lanternts that you never have to fill up again?

[Treyflix 277]

@arch, a candle will burn much longer than a torch. I think. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Also I'm not talking dinky candles, I mean full on full sized bright candles.

@noodles that's all I can think of too, but dunk doesn't want anything nessacary in a tech tree coming from the nether. It's supposed to be all bonuses. And permanent lighting is definitely NOT a bonus. It's kind of a nessacity.

It could work though if nothing else better is thought up.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

@arch, a candle will burn much longer than a torch. I think. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Also I'm not talking dinky candles, I mean full on full sized bright candles.

@noodles that's all I can think of too, but dunk doesn't want anything nessacary in a tech tree coming from the nether. It's supposed to be all bonuses. And permanent lighting is definitely NOT a bonus. It's kind of a nessacity.

It could work though if nothing else better is thought up.

well if you wanna talk more on lighting go here

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/1586-lamps-candles-and-torches-oh-my-new-lighting-ideas/

[Oopyuman 0]

Well sorry for not looking more on the other threads, I looked a bit, but not entirely to see if any of these suggestions were already posted, and thank you all for the welcoming

[achartran 465]

noodles, that thread derailed soooo hard its not even funny, not as bad as magma forges, but still pretty bad.

In short, "it's dead, Jim!"

plus, i already linked that a few pages back

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

@arch, a candle will burn much longer than a torch. I think. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Also I'm not talking dinky candles, I mean full on full sized bright candles.

You are quite right. They are completely made of their fuel. The wax melts, the thread in the center absorbs it, the wax goes up in the thread and gets burned by the fire; that's why they don't cover everything around them in liquid wax :

@noodles that's all I can think of too, but dunk doesn't want anything nessacary in a tech tree coming from the nether. It's supposed to be all bonuses. And permanent lighting is definitely NOT a bonus. It's kind of a nessacity.

Wait, wait, wait. When did dunk said that he didn't wanted anything from the tech tree needing a journey or two to the nether? I must have missed that, like, completely ._.

Permanent lighting -or nearly permanent- is a neccesity. However, there is no believable way to get it to be in the overworld, due to the physics laws -or in the nearly permanent case, due to time period restrictions-. The nether, however, is a completely different dimension, which could, therefore, have different physics laws, these allowing the existance of infinite light sources. The mere fact that you are still alive while entering the nether is just milacrous. I honestly see no reason why the tech tree should stop when the nether being another dimension brings up the chance to advance even more. What i was thinking about was: You reached red/blue steel and their equivalents in every other overwolrd tech tree. Congratulations, you can now go to the nether. The nether is not even survivable by it's own, and it has it's own tech tree in which red and blue steel are now the rock tools equivalent. Even some of your maximun tier techs are rendered useless there -as the agriculture one, 'cause plants can't grow donw there-. Your next challenge, now that you survived the overworld: make the nether survivable and conquer it's tech tree. And then, when you completely control the nether, "the end" -in this case, it's not the best nae it could have...- is next. And then the wailing, and then other dimension, and so on.

I know, i know, the "YOU MUST CONQUER ALL!!!" objective is not the central one of TFC, not even close. but i would certainly love to see it taking this direction...

note: Not asking the devs to create 400000000000 different dimensions with complete tech trees for every aspect. *Saves Dunk from a heart attack*

[MDub 68]

IMO, expiry lighting sources is almost as bad an idea as religion in TFC. There are already a dozen or more mechanics in the game that require babysitting, and aren't very believable. All this suggestion adds is busy work. Claims that its an incentive to work toward the next tier of lighting are just pathetic attempts at justifying this horrible idea, by disguising the tedium with complicated tedium. I mean really, this mod is very immersive as it is, and its steadily progressed toward the point of just not being fun because of the enormous investments the player must make in order to do something simple. Im all for a challange but making my lights go out over time is just stupid, especially considering Bioxx's position on this being a SMP oriented mod. How would you like having the first thing you have to do each time you log onto your favorite server, be replacing all your lighting sources because you simply cant babysit them 24x7? In caves, the hardest part is starting out, and getting the damn thing lit up so that A. you can see what your doing, B. you can find your way back easily, and most importantly, C. to prevent random creeper death. I guess it may be a better idea after mob spawning is adjusted, but its hard for me to imagine a worse game killing mechanic than this, and even harder to imagine a context in which it does anything other than piss off the players. Maybe... just MAYBE you could offset this terrible plan by doing two things... 1. Make torches emit light while in the players hands, and 2. making a replacement permanent lighting source for the torches effectively limiting this crappy mechanic to the stone age or something, where everything else is already crappy.

[achartran 465]

So JAG, basically, as i understand it, you're saying we should do the Aether mod, just with like, 3 more dimensions?

I like you're thinking

(kind of, seems a bit ambitious, but might be cool on a smaller scale)

IMO, expiry lighting sources is almost as bad an idea as religion in TFC. There are already a dozen or more mechanics in the game that require babysitting, and aren't very believable. All this suggestion adds is busy work. Claims that its an incentive to work toward the next tier of lighting are just pathetic attempts at justifying this horrible idea, by disguising the tedium with complicated tedium. I mean really, this mod is very immersive as it is, and its steadily progressed toward the point of just not being fun because of the enormous investments the player must make in order to do something simple. Im all for a challange but making my lights go out over time is just stupid, especially considering Bioxx's position on this being a SMP oriented mod. How would you like having the first thing you have to do each time you log onto your favorite server, be replacing all your lighting sources because you simply cant babysit them 24x7? In caves, the hardest part is starting out, and getting the damn thing lit up so that A. you can see what your doing, B. you can find your way back easily, and most importantly, C. to prevent random creeper death. I guess it may be a better idea after mob spawning is adjusted, but its hard for me to imagine a worse game killing mechanic than this, and even harder to imagine a context in which it does anything other than piss off the players.

Did your read this thread? We have been talking about all this stuff, its good tedium. It provides more depth to the game, it keeps the player on their toes, and is just plain cool.

Also, this wouldn't happen until after all the baddies have specialized spawn locations. So C is irrelevant.

[MDub 68]

Yes I did read the post, and its not cool, its just time consuming, and not fun at all. I cant even imagine the complexity of trying to make mob spawn behavior behave in such a way that they can distinguish between the cave and the house you built underground. this coupled with the cave-in feature and how most servers seem to have a hard on for the 100% cave-in chance, no permanent lighting = shitty ass game mechanic. This keeps you on your toes in the same way a bitchy wife does... thats not fun, it makes you want to slap someone...

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

So JAG, basically, as i understand it, you're saying we should do the Aether mod, just with like, 3 more dimensions?

I like you're thinking

... The aether mod is like that? .-. i never knew that... well, i should give it a try later.

-snip-

... There won't be distinction between an unerground house and a cave. They won't spawn on caves, either. They will spawn in some crypts. Now, if you built a house in a crypt, just because it looks cool, then you are a frikkin idiot and will find your house full of creepers when you come back, wherever it's properly lighted or not. When thinking about this, try to untie the mob spawning with the light level, because that's not gonna be in place much longer. -as far as i know-

And also, if you find temporal lighting that much tedious, i can't imagine how much you suffered your first days cooking or doing ANYTHING in a fireplace, nor how bored you get when woodcutting time comes due to having to break every single leave you can reach for sticks and saplings, nor how desesperated you get every time you have to collect your charcoal piece by piece, nor how much you begged so you could get to metal tiers because you have to make new stone tools every 20 seconds... The game already has pretty tedious tasks that are unavoidable if you wanna get any far in the game, or even SURVIVE -i dare you to start a world from 0 and try to advance without a single stick-. And as you advance, the game also provides you less tedious ways to do this stuff: The forge and bloomery, saws and scythes, metal shovels, metal tools with higher durability in general. What i suggested was simply yet another feature that follows this system: you start with a very tedious tier 0 lighting source, which you have to replace every 10 minutes. As you advance in the tech tree, you get new and better lighting sources, that last 30 minutes, or a complete hour, or two... until an end in which you will never need to replace them.

[MDub 68]

lol what ever guys, you keep on thinking that tending to lights makes a game fun... who knows wish hard enough and it might come true.

-edit-

and just as a side note, its not that replacing the lights is to much work, its that its WAY to much work when you consider everything else you have to devote so much time to in this mod. Making charcoal is fine (although I have some problems with the consumption rates in the bloomery). but this is just a bad idea, and anyone who thinks that running around in a game, stopping every 15 minutes or whatever to replace their lights, and doesnt see how this is just a shitty time wasting tactic which inherently draws out the process of doing virtually everything else, bewilders me.

[achartran 465]

YAY! argument dropped!