Gems + XP = Idea!

[ECC 508]

K, Will attempt to finish it up.

plans/thoughts:

Master Alchemy equates to mass transmutation and the strenuous and highly dangerous process of cheating death.

Blood Runes are powerful written magics that turn a small space into an AOE. They drain the mage of a lot of health to seal a location from players and or mobs, or to prepare a location for later tier work.

Necromancy is the next stage in Blood Runes. Using master Alchemy, Gem Magic, and Herboligy, a Necromancer can control the dead. It is a high risk-High profit magic that for obvious reasons is often called dark magic(takes a soul to make a soul)

Enchanting is an old art, and bodes no real risk for its users. It works hand in hand with Gem magic and advanced alchemy. Simply by etching a few runes into a weapon and working bound gems into the hilt, you can create a true blade of fire. The only risk that ever comes of enchanting is when the enchanted break and release the energies within.

Blood Enchanting is a dangerous sister to normal enchanting. A mage of this practice is a near master of all the arcane and repeatedly cheats death to make such artifacts. If they ever fail to prepare for such a magic, an attempt will create a greater power enchantment then ever at the cost of ones person.(failed attempts kill the mage and make enchantments THAT much more powerful)

Mythomancy is the art of creating something from nothing. It is the art that allows one to teach the dead to live. A mythomancer is often mistaken for a god, despite a great weakness in the art. Mythomancers, once they practice the art for the first time can never heal or be healed. the cost for bringing a loved one back is great, and such a magic as this proves that.(aka, their HP can not be raised by any means.)

[LordOfWolves 514]

mega -snip-

But this is not a post, this is a Sir Post.

[redundantusage 330]

ECC's stuff does a good job of covering some basics and pretty much the entire branch of blood and health specific magic, anyone have any additional ideas on more elemental and environmental based magic?

[bsb23 303]

Do we really need any more magic mechanics? Shouldn't enchanting, alchemy, gems and blood be enough?

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Do we really need any more magic mechanics? Shouldn't enchanting, alchemy, gems and blood be enough?

well the way i've seen things going on gems would be a part of enchanting, so yeah

and that blood magic, well it seems a little overpowered dont you think? we cant make magic be too good, otherwise people would instantly try for that and not go for any other aspects of this game, we need balance so that being a craftsman,warrior, or stealthy fighter are equaly viable plans of progress just like being a mage

curses, i seem to be stuck in a british accent, not that it really matters when im typing all this...

[bsb23 303]

The point is to make magic scary to both its opponents and its users and a health drain is okay but for what it can be used for we will probably need a bit more. Once more I'm moving into the Nether, Dunk simply makes an invincible beast which bleeds a substance known as Ichor (look it up) this Ichor could do something decently strong maybe necromancy. Ichor could easily replace mercury in my enchantment thread as well. Mythomancy is too far without redoing the End to make things make sense and become a little more difficult. This Ichor would be so difficult to get people wouldn't even think about it. Except for the crazy. The beast would be completely invincible and so scary no one would want to be near it anyways. The question now is blood collection, how will it work? All bloods should do something but how can we "collect" blood without being creepy. Butchering could allow us to do this to animals but I'm pretty sure I don't want to butcher any of the monsters and I was kind of looking forward to using the blood of my enemies. Any suggestions?

These need to start tying together more lets slim this down to three ideas like srg said alchemy, enchanting, elemental. Alchemy is what ECC just described more or less. Enchanting is what we have previously described. Elemental is direct use of charged gems on the environment.

[ECC 508]

Still adding to the post guys, dont judge my balance yet.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

... and Flight-of-Dragons-ish...

OH MY GODS SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS THAT MOVIE <333

*ahem*

I have to say, I do rather like the direction this thread is taking, Magics in TFC should be difficult to master, require sacrifice, and be very difficult and dangerous. On other vanilla and bukkit servers I have always tried to be the 'village mage' by having potion shops, variable enchanting tables, and the best XP farms on the server, but the thing is these are all comparatively easy things that anyone can accomplish.

Just like servers have their farmers who fully understand crop rotation and seasonal planting, and smiths who've memorized the exact patterns for the perfect steel breastplate - I want to be able to built a big ol' fuck-off tower either on the edge or in the center of town, buy up all the 'useless' gems people have been keeping in their chests wasting space, and start providing unique wares that others on the server genuinely cannot make for themselves, just like the average joe can't make a red steel helmet, or grow a whole field of barley to harvest.

[Menoch 335]

Wow! You are either an old fart like me, or you stumled upon some vintage animated goodness. Flight of Dragons is a treasured movie that I would recommend to ANYONE!

I agree in the degree of mastery suggested, whatever the course of development might be with implementing magic into this mod. The sheer work and time required to truly call any one aspect of craft in this game your biatch is what makes this game so awesome! Magic, be it gem-craft, alchemy, scribing scrolls, etc... shouldn't just be a fart in a bottle. But it should mean something not only to the achiever, but to the achiever's peers as well... Having so many deep, deep game-play aspects to this game would make server play and community development a cut above the rest!

[ECC 508]

Sadly, when the forum moved I lost the edits I made. ): I give up

If magic is to be a challenge, it would necessarily have to be both rare item based, health draining, and on top of it, require a half dozen minigames highlighting each 'aspect' of the work. Using herbs and cloth to bind a wound would require something far different then controlling the exact temperature needed to let a gem absorb energy the most efficiently(examples)

[bsb23 303]

Rather than make a huge amount of minigames which I can't imagine easy to make. Lets just keep things simple (not for us but for Bioxx who already said he isn't too eager to add this stuff in) alchemy makes use of the cauldron and makes both potions and catalysts for enchanting as well as if you do it right you can get random items as well (transmutation style). It would essentially be based on timing and ingredients maybe an occasional stirring. Elemental would be based on finding gems and then charging them with ichor and XP. Then using them. Just a quick dunk in ichor and then pushing in an exact amount and type (I have made blood and XP the same thing hope you don't mind). Finally we use enchanting as the final piece this includes the only true mini-game which includes adding all the catalysts gems and frames(tools) in a crazy process which includes, tossing, smashing, dunking, baking, cleaning, energizing, exploding and probably a lot more.

[achartran 465]

Sadly, when the forum moved I lost the edits I made. ): I give up

Wait, the forums moved?! Is that why there isn't a shoutbox and friend chat?

[LordOfWolves 514]

Wait, the forums moved?! Is that why there isn't a shoutbox and friend chat?

I think because we're in a weekend.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I FINALLY got around reading ECC's stuff.

While it sounds good... There is a particular line that concerns me...

Think of how a V.Creeper explodes. When you die, your bonded gems you have on you explode with that type of magic.

Depending on how it is done, this could become extremely overpowered. Think about it this way: An army's general gives one guy as much gems as he could carry, and orders him to bond every single one fo those gems to himself. After months, he manaes to bond the gems without dying in the process. He is then sent to the enemy's town, in a suicidal mission.

Why overpowered? If every single gem's explosion is accounted for, vanilla explosion mechanics would get into play here: when multiple explosion with the same strengh (this value defining the damage the explosion does to blocks and mobs) occur in nearby spots, the radius of the explosion augments. A crater left by 1 TNT block is minor than one left by 2 TNT blocks triggered at the same time.

So, why this matters? As the suicidal soldier was sent with as many gems as it could carry (I think, around 1792 gems), the radius of the explosion would be MASSIVE. Not accounting for the extreme lag issues it would 'cause in that server, the city and it's far sorroundings would be left completely barren. No surviving players, probably; the city would become a ghost city in less than a second. And whatever player is left, is left at the mercy of the enemy city's army.

So, to avoid this... "relatively easy to access TFC nuclear nukes", i guess you will have to do it so it's only one explosion regardless of the amount of gems exploding, or make this explosions work in a completely different way.

EDIT: I know you asked us not to critic the balance, but... i just CAN'T overlook f+cking nuclear nukes :

[bsb23 303]

That is where ichor comes in, nobody is going to want to waste that stuff. The way I see it only one specific gem should explode however its power and type of explosion should be based on the XP/blood put in. I changed my mind also, player blood shouldn't be possible. Make it like a dream again and disappear on death.

[redundantusage 330]

Tool racks could be used to "hang" herbs so they can be dried before use.

Forgoing high fantasy magics such as mystical giant netherbeast blood and blood being the gateway to win, gems could simply be used as a catalyst in alchemy, either crushed or as a focus, whichever makes more sense to the devs.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

...being the gateway to win

One does not simply win minecraft my good sir.

[bsb23 303]

The point is to make something extremely hard to get. We certainly would like higher magics as an end-game thing we want magic to be something people spend time on not just drying herbs.

[redundantusage 330]

One does not simply win minecraft my good sir.

I've won minecraft several times. You know you've won when you can fly, shoot a laser that eats a mountain, convert said mountain into a stack of solar panels that powers your vis production to superchant your flying gear. There's a nuclear explosion and a herd of wolves in there somewhere as well.

I can understand the desire to have something to strive for late game, but let's also face the fact that many mods have already done this with magic and magic items, and for all intent and purpose this mod is still in infancy. Even if it does already make most mods look like they were put together by an eight year old. Having magic be a facet without being the end game and letting some other aspect of the mod be the thing to strive for will make this mod stand out more than just another apocalypse spell.

Not to say the magic should be limited to just dried herbs and basic alchemy, just that I don't believe it should be as all powerful as I think some people are aiming for.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Wow! You are either an old fart like me, or you stumled upon some vintage animated goodness. Flight of Dragons is a treasured movie that I would recommend to ANYONE!

I agree in the degree of mastery suggested, whatever the course of development might be with implementing magic into this mod. The sheer work and time required to truly call any one aspect of craft in this game your biatch is what makes this game so awesome! Magic, be it gem-craft, alchemy, scribing scrolls, etc... shouldn't just be a fart in a bottle. But it should mean something not only to the achiever, but to the achiever's peers as well... Having so many deep, deep game-play aspects to this game would make server play and community development a cut above the rest!

FoD was my favorite childhood movie. <3 When I was between 7 and 12 I used to have my mom make constant trips to Blockbuster to rent the VHS of it over and over

Now that I'm much older, I have the DVD sitting on a nearby shelf and I now notice many rather startling similarities between myself and Peter, lol

[bsb23 303]

I've won minecraft several times. You know you've won when you can fly, shoot a laser that eats a mountain, convert said mountain into a stack of solar panels that powers your vis production to superchant your flying gear. There's a nuclear explosion and a herd of wolves in there somewhere as well.

I can understand the desire to have something to strive for late game, but let's also face the fact that many mods have already done this with magic and magic items, and for all intent and purpose this mod is still in infancy. Even if it does already make most mods look like they were put together by an eight year old. Having magic be a facet without being the end game and letting some other aspect of the mod be the thing to strive for will make this mod stand out more than just another apocalypse spell.

Not to say the magic should be limited to just dried herbs and basic alchemy, just that I don't believe it should be as all powerful as I think some people are aiming for.

Is your point that it is to early in production for these things to be added or they simply shouldn't be added? I'm slightly confused.

[Menoch 335]

FoD was my favorite childhood movie. <3 When I was between 7 and 12 I used to have my mom make constant trips to Blockbuster to rent the VHS of it over and over

Now that I'm much older, I have the DVD sitting on a nearby shelf and I now notice many rather startling similarities between myself and Peter, lol

Indeed, my friend. That is very revelation-ish to find commonality between yourself and a character in a story. If all animated stories could be told in such a fashion, both through art and tale like FoD, the animated 1970's Hobbit (though JRR Tolkein takes the cake for detailed character and story developement), and Ralph Bakshi's Fire and Ice, I think the fantasy community of the Y generation would have even something to keep old-schooler's like myself coming back for more... but alas, at least The Last Unicorn and it's animated treasure-kin are still available. Oh man.. now I wanna watch a movie! Lol

As for the this thread, I think I like the drying of herbs and crushing of gems as part of the alchemical equation.

Let me just say that I finally, after all this time, have completed my very first set of Bismuth Plate Armor.. complete with Sword. HUZZAH! I didn't fully realize the work that goes into mining, smithing, and forging just the first tier of metal armor. I am truly impressed to say the least.

I also agree that magic shouldn't be just kept for end-game, however if as much work and effort goes into even the first tier of magic use, and if magic is indeed included in this mod, then I am excited to see what shall become!

[ECC 508]

'He is then sent to the enemy's town, in a suicidal mission.'

First, gems explosions would have a max radius. No matter how many you carry, a full inv of them blowing up all at once would never exceed the radius. Each gem however altars the 'chemistry' of the explosion. Black magic for example would be environmental (crater) and health damage, where as green magic would cause poison but not leave a crater. Each magic that releases would add to the effects caused within its radius, but never expand the radius with exceptions made between a chipped and flawless.(flawless makes max size, chipped makes minimal. noting exceeds flawless size)

suicide solders SHOULD be a game mechanic, as this was a real strategy(albeit with different 'end game' weapons. lol) When i think of PVP in any game where groups can form, I think of Chess. If a king can sacrifice a pawn to reach his checkmate, he damn sight better do it for all its worth. Sending your CreeperX solder in to end a campaign is the perfect end to a war.

Plus, Fireworks ;D

as for herbs, Herbs and the knowledge of plant life is a old PRE-STONE AGE knowledge. Humans, animals and more have been using plant and fungi life for ages to alleviate health issues. Why TFC has not implemented even basic medicine using this yet actually leaves me mildly confused. There is actually several species of plant out there in the real world that act like a near universal anti-toxin.

saying this now: sometimes balance may be sacrificed to add to gameplay. By putting emphasis on magic, we artificially create the lore behind it that it is powerful and not the be trifled with.

also, if magic is added, we should consider making it separate from the core mod. I rather like how Red power has separated a number of its components and can honestly say more mods should take that route.

[Menoch 335]

...

Now that's not to say a ruby in the hilt of a sword couldn't provide fire protection or leave a singe on the flesh when it strikes, or a Diamond ladened helm couldn't impart regeneration. But the strength of magic may just be what it does behind the scenes as opposed to how many craters it can leave in your ass. And I quote "There are many magic rings in this world Mister Frodo, and NONE of them are to be taken lightly."

@ECC, herbalism/botany indeed has been in use from the beginning of Mankind's walk on this planet, however magic (as much as I hate to admit it) has been in use and belief for just as long. The indians had spirit guides and went on spirit walks and had Shaman.... and if I had that much peyote to the head... ahem.... , yea and the Egyptians practiced magic (talked with the dead, had seers, etc...), and if you have read the bible, different nations (the babylonians, Assyrians, etc..) have had mediums, prophets, .. it even speaks of necromancers... And herbalism and most magic has gone hand in hand... as many herbs are used to alter the feelings and mind

Magic is as old as herbalism. Though I am %1000 certain herbalism is much safer for the soul

My above point about the whole behind the scenes thing, is to make it more believable than flame tossing Steves in conical wizard hats and exploding gems strapped to chickens.... though Monty Python would disagree with me. LOL

To take a more believable approach on the whole magic idea (if it is at all included) would probably be the way to go as opposed to my original post that started the thread.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

@ECC, herbalism/botany indeed has been in use from the beginning of Mankind's walk on this planet, however magic (as much as I hate to admit it) has been in use and belief for just as long. The indians had spirit guides and went on spirit walks and had Shaman.... and if I had that much peyote to the head... ahem.... , yea and the Egyptians practiced magic (talked with the dead, had seers, etc...), and if you have read the bible, different nations (the babylonians, Assyrians, etc..) have had mediums, prophets, .. it even speaks of necromancers... And herbalism and most magic has gone hand in hand... as many herbs are used to alter the feelings and mind

Magic is as old as herbalism. Though I am %1000 certain herbalism is much safer for the soul

My above point about the whole behind the scenes thing, is to make it more believable than flame tossing Steves in conical wizard hats and exploding gems strapped to chickens.... though Monty Python would disagree with me. LOL

To take a more believable approach on the whole magic idea (if it is at all included) would probably be the way to go as opposed to my original post that started the thread.

100% with you on this one

I practice 'herbalism' myself and it is indeed magical

X3