Stone Variety And Metal Tiers

[Vlad 73]

Stone Variety:

In an early version of TFC, different stones created stone tools with different durability (Igneous Extrusive for better).

Not sure how it's now, but is seems like all the stones are the same except the textures.

Wouldn't it be more interesting if different stones were different?

For example different mining times.

So higher tier ores can hide inside a more harder to destroy stone, until you get a better tier pickaxe.

Metal Tiers:

Here I would like a big change.

How the tiers are built now:

So there is 3 tier-0 metals, and at the beginning of the game you would actually see some players with zinc and some with tin or bismuth, and I do like this variety.

These 3 metals can be found almost everywhere, so no special stone hunting is happening.

What is next? Everybody go after copper. And where to? I believe it would be igneous extrusive.

But each one will may make a different alloy (bronze, brass, etc.) depending on what he found, and this is a good part too, but iron is so easy to find, that I just skipped this tier .

Once you have copper, you are hunting for iron, and stably staying on tier 3.

So now you need nickel for the final metals. Once you find it, end of story with metals.

Suggestion: More tiers like 0 and 2.

And no that everybody are doing after the same ore and stone.

Also make iron more rare like copper, so you can't just jump over tier 2 to iron..

How about making more metal types for each tier, so that not everybody are doing exactly the same.

This will open the possibility for more ores, and that each stone have unique ore types, and not like tier 0 and iron that found anywhere (but this should stay for tier 0 for the sake of ease).

I'm not suggesting anything specific because I wanna see the reactions about this general idea.

But something specific would be: after iron we get more then black steel, but types of iron (green steel, yellow steel, whatever..), same as with copper.

Do you want to see more ores and metals on each tier, or we should keep it "real"? (even though it has high charcoal ratio )

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Stone Variety:

In an early version of TFC, different stones created stone tools with different durability (Igneous Extrusive for better).

Not sure how it's now, but is seems like all the stones are the same except the textures.

Yup...It is still like that. Different stones have different durabilities for tools...It goes like this:Sedimentary, Metamorphic, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive.

Metal Idea

I think we should keep it REAL. Like don't add yellow steel, green steel, etc. Like Treyflix made a post a while back in the Discussions forum, Damascus steel. That should be one of the metals. Also, I think different ores should give different "strengths" of that metal. Like what I mean is, something like the stone tools. As in you can';t see the differences, but they are there. Like for example:

We have 2 ores of copper: Native Copper and Tetrahedrite.

Native copper give more malleable, softer copper (as it is purer, remember we aren't using modern-day technology to FULLY refine all the silver out of tetrahedrite, that is why I think this works) but the metal has less durability.

On the other hand, Tetrahedrite's copper gives harder to work with, more durability metal, but also is more brittle. (not real info, just from what I know.)

Softer, more flexible metal would be better for a sword or armor as it can take a blow, but not break. But the brittler, but harder, and more durable copper would be better for a shovel or chisel or hoe.

Different meta-metals (as I will call them, meta-metals are the meta tiers of a metal, such as native copper or tetrahedrite copper). are different for different things. This way like you said, everyone won't have the same thing. It would also open up more trade abilities.

Another thing for variety is increase the number of ores that bear a metal. This is vital for the meta-metals idea.

Just 2 meta tiers isn't enough. We need 3 or 4. Some more ores for copper are Chalcopyrite, Cuprite, Azurite (i believe).

Another cause of variety is the actual working of the ingot. This also aids the importance of skill mastery (in this case blacksmithing) This needs more rule variety for ingots instead of just Hit, Hit, Hit. or Hit, Hit, Draw. Make it more like the tools. Different ways of working ingots might cause microcrystalline fractures or fruitlessness or softness, etc. Softness isn't always a bad thing, We have precious metals, and those need to be soft to be good for coins (kingdoms update) and jewellery.

Different metals and meta-metals should also have cooling tempratures and heating temperatures.

One more thing I wanted to say is alloys. I think you should be able to experiment with the alloys. Kind of like the meals, where you can combine ANYTHING and you get something. I don;t think this will be too hard to do (in coding) as it is just some metadata and stuff (correct me if I am wrong anyone). You should be able to experiment and do different alloys like Copper-Iron-Nickel. Probably won't make a very good alloy, but you get the point. Experiment. White Gold, Yellow gold, Rose gold, All of them.

I will do some research on different ores for things and add more. But for now these are my ideas, leave feedback on them PLEASE.

TL;DR: VARIETY, VARIETY, VARIETY

Also, Sorry if these ideas are bad. I am actually indifferent on the matter, but ya, kinda just poured them outta my head. I do that sometimes...

[transcengopher 349]

Stone tools are still differs in durability and there's actually three or four stone axes. You can check by crafting them out of different stones and then trying to repair on the crafting bench.

As for metals, variety is sure a nice thing, but what metals exactly you can name that can fulfil the roles? I can see expanded tiers 4-6, but not others.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Stone Variety:

In an early version of TFC, different stones created stone tools with different durability (Igneous Extrusive for better).

Not sure how it's now, but is seems like all the stones are the same except the textures.

Wouldn't it be more interesting if different stones were different?

For example different mining times.

Metal Tiers:

Here I would like a big change.

How the tiers are built now:

So there is 3 tier-0 metals, and at the beginning of the game you would actually see some players with zinc and some with tin or bismuth, and I do like this variety.

These 3 metals can be found almost everywhere, so no special stone hunting is happening.

What is next? Everybody go after copper. And where to? I believe it would be igneous extrusive.

But each one will may make a different alloy (bronze, brass, etc.) depending on what he found, and this is a good part too, but iron is so easy to find, that I just skipped this tier .

Once you have copper, you are hunting for iron, and stably staying on tier 3.

So now you need nickel for the final metals. Once you find it, end of story with metals.

Suggestion: More tiers like 0 and 2.

And no that everybody are doing after the same ore and stone.

Also make iron more rare like copper, so you can't just jump over tier 2 to iron..

How about making more metal types for each tier, so that not everybody are doing exactly the same.

This will open the possibility for more ores, and that each stone have unique ore types, and not like tier 0 and iron that found anywhere (but this should stay for tier 0 for the sake of ease).

I'm not suggesting anything specific because I wanna see the reactions about this general idea.

But something specific would be: after iron we get more then black steel, but types of iron (green steel, yellow steel, whatever..), same as with copper.

Do you want to see more ores and metals on each tier, or we should keep it "real"? (even though it has high charcoal ratio )

Difference in stone tools is still there, and the only way to do the second is to get a much more cientifical approach to TFC (which doesn't quite fit with the mod, really) or get fantasy metals...

[Vlad 73]

Stone tools are still differs in durability and there's actually three or four stone axes. You can check by crafting them out of different stones and then trying to repair on the crafting bench.

As for metals, variety is sure a nice thing, but what metals exactly you can name that can fulfil the roles? I can see expanded tiers 4-6, but not others.

It's about what I said..

making tier 2 more stable: "Also make iron more rare like copper, so you can't just jump over tier 2 to iron.."

and this: "But something specific would be: after iron we get more then black steel, but types of iron (green steel, yellow steel, whatever..), same as with copper."

[transcengopher 349]

Difference in stone tools is still there, and the only way to do the second is to get a much more cientifical approach to TFC (which doesn't quite fit with the mod, really) or get fantasy metals...

I digged wiki and Priodic table.

So, there's cobalt, manganese, chromium, titanium (which is actually about tier 0-1 as far as durability goes), niobium, molybdenum, tungsten, and osmium. The thing is - do we really want to go bat about this?

Oh, and half of this stuff is fairly high-tech.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

I digged wiki and Priodic table.

So, there's cobalt, manganese, chromium, titanium (which is actually about tier 0-1 as far as durability goes), niobium, molybdenum, tungsten, and osmium. The thing is - do we really want to go bat about this?

Oh, and half of this stuff is fairly high-tech.

Or we could do fantasy metals...

EDIT: Am I the only one who likes this idea? Oh well, it was worth a try.

[Vlad 73]

I digged wiki and Priodic table.

So, there's cobalt, manganese, chromium, titanium (which is actually about tier 0-1 as far as durability goes), niobium, molybdenum, tungsten, and osmium. The thing is - do we really want to go bat about this?

Oh, and half of this stuff is fairly high-tech.

Or we could do fantasy metals...

EDIT: Am I the only one who likes this idea? Oh well, it was worth a try.

So there shouldn't be any problems with variety even with "real" approach, with fantasy is even more simpler.

So the question is who would like more variety?

[transcengopher 349]

Almost all of fantasy stuff are "better than steel" and also require their own ores.

I wouldn't mind having adamantium, as long as digging it could open Fun Kingdom Gates though.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Agree, shouldn't cause any problems with variety even with "real" approch.

I am very sorry vladp995, but you really need to explain what you say better. Today this kinda thing has happened a buch of times

Anyway, You sound like you are agreeing with him and that the idea is still ok, but he is saying that theidea is NOT ok. I might just be really bad at understading, but i kinda think you should explain better. Please don't take this personaly.

[Vlad 73]

Almost all of fantasy stuff are "better than steel" and also require their own ores.

I wouldn't mind having adamantium, as long as digging it could open Fun Kingdom Gates though.

About "require their own ores" here comes the more different stone:

some stones should be more harder to mine through and there may be height tier ores.

[ECC 508]

'titanium'

alloyed titanium is effing awesome. Unalloyed is total shit, but alloyed..

[Kimbblesrath 503]

'titanium'

alloyed titanium is effing awesome. Unalloyed is total shit, but alloyed..

*does some research*

Wow you are right. It is kinda high tech though...

Titanium alloys are metals which contain a mixture of titanium and other chemical elements. Such alloys have very high tensile strength and toughness (even at extreme temperatures). They are light weight, have extraordinary corrosion resistance and the ability to withstand extreme temperatures. However, the high cost of both raw materials and processing limit their use to military applications,aircraft, spacecraft, medical devices, connecting rods on expensive sports cars and some premium sports equipment and consumer electronics. Auto manufacturers Porsche and Ferrari also use titanium alloys in engine components due to its durable properties in these high stress engine environments.

Although "commercially pure" titanium has acceptable mechanical properties and has been used for orthopedic and dental implants, for most applications titanium is alloyed with small amounts of aluminum and vanadium, typically 6% and 4% respectively, by weight. This mixture has a solid solubility which varies dramatically with temperature, allowing it to undergo precipitation strengthening. This heat treatment process is carried out after the alloy has been worked into its final shape but before it is put to use, allowing much easier fabrication of a high-strength product.

[Vlad 73]

I am very sorry vladp995, but you really need to explain what you say better. Today this kinda thing has happened a buch of times

Anyway, You sound like you are agreeing with him and that the idea is still ok, but he is saying that theidea is NOT ok. I might just be really bad at understading, but i kinda think you should explain better. Please don't take this personaly.

I guess I completely missed his point then

Sorry.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

I guess I completely missed his point then

Sorry.

No problem.

[ECC 508]

'*does some research*

Wow you are right. It is kinda high tech though...'

I was going to suggest this a WILE back in a number of mods. I had done a TON of research behind it at the time. Assuming that it can be found. I imagine that the people of that world could develop it earlier then we did and come to a point where bows only ever need to be restrung, and blades carve though a pigs skull like butter. that would however mean expanding the tier system some and I cant exactly see the devs buying my arguments.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

'*does some research*

Wow you are right. It is kinda high tech though...'

I was going to suggest this a WILE back in a number of mods. I had done a TON of research behind it at the time. Assuming that it can be found. I imagine that the people of that world could develop it earlier then we did and come to a point where bows only ever need to be restrung, and blades carve though a pigs skull like butter. that would however mean expanding the tier system some and I cant exactly see the devs buying my arguments.

Well, let's hear your arguments, they can't be that bad.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Almost all of fantasy stuff are "better than steel" and also require their own ores.

I wouldn't mind having adamantium, as long as digging it could open Fun Kingdom Gates though.

We don't really need to stick to the tipical fantasy metals, we can create our own metals. And, they don't need to be stronger than normal ones... I used "fantasy" as in "it doesn't exists or we don't know it in real life". If we do create this hipotetical metals just for the mod, they should be about as rare and strong as the real ores (and maybe the top tier can be a magical metal/alloy, why not...). This would make our hipotetical metals distinct from the fantasy metals, because ours are natural. Those fantasy metals never feel like they are part of the rocks they are in; our hipotetical metals would feel like part of the world they are in.

[transcengopher 349]

Titanium alloyed with aluminium and vanadium? Now aluminium is a big no because of electricity required.

As for vanadium:

Vanadium metal is obtained via a multistep process that begins with the roasting of crushed ore with NaCl or Na₂CO₃ at about 850 °C to give sodium metavanadate (NaVO₃). An aqueous extract of this solid is acidified to give "red cake", a polyvanadate salt, which is reduced with calcium metal.

Except for calcium we have that, and this is actually can be interesting process to have in game.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Titanium alloyed with aluminium and vanadium? Now aluminium is a big no because of electricity required.

As for vanadium:

Except for calcium we have that, and this is actually can be interesting process to have in game.

Like I said, kinda high tech. And you are right. It would be interesting..

[transcengopher 349]

We don't really need to stick to the tipical fantasy metals, we can create our own metals. And, they don't need to be stronger than normal ones... I used "fantasy" as in "it doesn't exists or we don't know it in real life".

They are also absolutely have to be included in production of alloys we have in game now. I'm talking about coloured steels.

Like I said, kinda high tech. And you are right. It would be interesting..

Not that high. You crush the ore, then melt it along with rock salt, then throw stuff in water and take resulting liquid, which you then mix with sulfuric acid (we have sulfur, are we?) and take the sludge, which is now about 90% vanadium. You can then melt it and get your precious ingots.

[yubyub96 68]

I love the idea of more metals, and more variety. I was impressed with the idea of The All Seeing Eye (funny name XD) making alloys work like meals and let people make alloys of everything. If not a very cool alloy would be beryllium bronze or beryllium copper its an alloy of copper berillion and i think tin also (not sure) and its very strong and has lots of properties.

I like the idea of making all kind of alloys possible because imagine in a server someone is known because of his incredible metals but no one knows the recipe even if he sells them (they wont be able to see its "ingredients") that could add some meta-skills just like bioxx and dunk like.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

They are also absolutely have to be included in production of alloys we have in game now. I'm talking about coloured steels.

Not that high. You crush the ore, then melt it along with rock salt, then throw stuff in water and take resulting liquid, which you then mix with sulfuric acid (we have sulfur, are we?) and take the sludge, which is now about 90% vanadium. You can then melt it and get your precious ingots.

Oh ok then. Yes we have sulfur, but does H2SO4 occur naturally? I am not sure if you can actually make sulfuric acid out of sulphur.. I'm no chemist though...

I love the idea of more metals, and more variety. I was impressed with the idea of The All Seeing Eye (funny name XD) making alloys work like meals and let people make alloys of everything. If not a very cool alloy would be beryllium bronze or beryllium copper its an alloy of copper berillion and i think tin also (not sure) and its very strong and has lots of properties.

I like the idea of making all kind of alloys possible because imagine in a server someone is known because of his incredible metals but no one knows the recipe even if he sells them (they wont be able to see its "ingredients") that could add some meta-skills just like bioxx and dunk like.

Haha. LOL You must not have been here long enough. A while back, I changed my name from Kimbblesrath to The All Seeing Eye. I love the name Kimbblesrath. And if you don't get the name, look at my title and/or prof pic. I am gonna Change it back on the 26th of Nov though haha. Felt it was time for change. And thank you for the compliments on my idea.

[transcengopher 349]

I am not sure if you can actually make sulfuric acid out of sulphur...

Where do you think we are getting it from, unicorn milk?

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Where do you think we are getting it from, unicorn milk?

No no HAHA. XD that is not what I meant. I am wondering if you can make it with the technology and timeframe of TFC.