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Sda215

Metallurgy Mechanics

15 posts in this topic

Hello once more, fellow TFC users. Now, I am aware that new metallurgy features have been announced in TFC 1. However, I plan to make some additions of my own here that may/may not have been accomplished in previous posts, and some may not be currently possible, so do suggest an alternative or tweak to amend those problems

The Current Metallurgy System:

TFC 1's current metallurgy system grows stale as you progress with skill accumulating through the different ages up to the blue and red steels. In order to (attempt to) remedy this adversity, I am to be suggesting that a variety of variables, techniques, and the like to be (hopefully) implemented.

The New Metallurgy System:

Metallurgy Through the Ages:

Ancient Metallurgy:

Coming Soon...

Medieval Metallurgy:

Coming Soon...

Renaissance Metallurgy:

Coming Soon...

Industrial Metallurgy:

Coming Soon...

Modern Metallurgy (Not to be implemented into TFC2, just reference):

Coming Soon...

-Stone Tools

Ores:

Before early humans began actual metalworking, ores were sometimes (and very rarely) used as 'chipped' stone tools, which are made of chipped ore. It is also slightly possible to reshape the raw ores, dependant on the hardness of the metal, into usable tools. As you can imagine, the early ways of processing metal ores never significantly affected the early human history.

The knapping system should also include ores to knap into stone tools. The only differences are that they are finicky to knap due to the metal the ore contains than using actual stone, and because of that, they aren't ideal for proper tool-procuring in their raw states.

Stone:

The reason I am putting stone tools into the suggestion is that (I believe) they were the predecessors of metal tools, and that prove to be invaluable to the early humans two million years earlier.

Not all stones on the ground can be usable for tool-making. They should have properties such as:

-The type of stone.

-The durability of the stone.

-The size and shape of the stone.

-It is isotropic (breaks reliably in any direction the tool-maker desires).

Besides the type of stone, if the rock doesn't meet any of the following criteria, it can shatter, cleave into thin plates, breaks too unevenly, or cannot hold an edge.

There are some kinds of stones that can prove useful. For instance:

-Obsidian: Best used for sharp tools. The right volcano (due to many volcanos having too many bubbles in obisidian or founded in layers too thin for effective use), whether it be active, dormant, or extinct, will provide the right obsidian.

-Flint: Closest second to obsidian. They are chemically similar to obsidian. Varieties of flint, including chert, could be useful, as well.

-Quartzite: Best used for hammers. The 'best' quartzites have their grains partially fused together.

-Greenstone: Generic name for metamorphic rock dark to light green in color, dense, and contains a chemistry of significant amounts of iron and silica. Harder, less pure greenstones are best for power-hitting tools rather than delicate-cutting ones.

A new knapping must be implemented to better reflect the properties of stones. Similar to some knapping suggestions, a randomized 3D stone appears as a GUI, which perfectly reflects to the stone that was picked up from the ground. On the top right of the GUI are two slots; the left one will produce the tool after knapping is completed, and the right is for the stone needed to hammer.

To knap a tool, hold down the left-mouse button to charge up force to being shaping. Tapping it will just simply bash the stone surface with little to no force. Don't hold it too long - if you do, there is a fair chance the rock will turn into a shovel non-usable stone.

Look for areas where you want to pound. The region in which you wish to knap depends on the shape of the rock. To make effective stone-tools, you need the right stone for the right and durable tools.

When finishing with the knapping process, you will recieve the desired stone tool. Certain stone tool-heads like shovels, hoes and axes require handles to be usable, whereas sharp stone tool-heads like knifes will do without a form of handles (provided that the user can use it for an action other than throwing).

Ores:

Copper

Copper Minerals: Percentage of Copper in Pure State:

-Native Copper -Unknown

-Chalcopyrite -34.5%

-Chalcocite -79.8%

-Covelite -66.5%

-Bornite -63.3%

-Tetrahedrite -32-45%

-Malachite -57.5%

-Azurite -55.1%

-Cuprite -88.8%

-Chrysocolla -37.5%

-Tennantite -51.6%

Traits:

-Corrosion-resistant, though when exposed to air, the surface of the ore oxidizes.

-Sometimes rarely found completely unmixed with other metal.

-Sometimes founded as nearly-pure nuggets.

-Melting Point: 1,083 C.

-A relatively common metal in the Earth's crust.

I don't have the time to finish this suggestion, so I would like to see your ideas for this post. Have a wonderful day, and see you soon!

-Sda209

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I entirely agree. Metallurgy shouldn't just be a matter of progressing through a list of pretty colored anvils. I really don't think that between the stages (stone, metal, alloy, steam, arcane) there should be a linear research path, as in: a player who starts on an island with iron will be able to smelt and use iron somewhat early on, without ever having made copper or bronze previously, similarly a player who starts with copper would use that. Progressing stages, then, would require trading resources inter-island, but islands wouldn't be unsuitable for starting out simply because they lack "starting metals." Mixed with unique ways to procure each metal, it could make for quite interesting gameplay.

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I like the idea, making early metals, and start refining them, this could be made by hitting the metal, you make a certain (random) group of hits in the anvil and you strengthen the metal, and you can then work it again with another set of hits and it would strengthen more, just two times before it reaches the top( to prevent OP tools) and the minerals should be used to make better alloys too, like dissolving copper in some acid to get the impurities out.

Of course that high level iron would be better than high level tin, and you shouldn't be able to work any metal in any place, the higher its strength the better surface you will need, you can start with a sedimentary stone but then you will need igneous or metal, and so on.

PS: what changes in metallurgy in TFC1 are you talking about?

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I love the idea of having different tiers of metallurgy with distinct gameplay.

Your "ancient metallurgy" thingie is completely wrong, but who cares about realism? I think the core idea is good and I'm looking forward to what people suggest.

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The idea is good but it would an pain in the ars to create a sistem like this and would probaly cause some lag : P

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I love the idea of having different tiers of metallurgy with distinct gameplay.

Your "ancient metallurgy" thingie is completely wrong, but who cares about realism? I think the core idea is good and I'm looking forward to what people suggest.

Do you have any evidence to back up your thesis? My suggestion was based off of research I conducted in the Internet, which is digging up metallurgy and ore facts in Wikipedia and a few college sources. Remember, I am not completely finished yet, so it's best to pass judgement after the defendant has finished.

The idea is good but it would an pain in the ars to create a sistem like this and would probaly cause some lag : P

This is where the users come in. Lag would be a significant issue here, so since my knowledge of code optimization is bare, I fall back on the user-suggestion idea.

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Do you have any evidence to back up your thesis? My suggestion was based off of research I conducted in the Internet, which is digging up metallurgy and ore facts in Wikipedia and a few college sources. Remember, I am not completely finished yet, so it's best to pass judgement after the defendant has finished.

Most of the metals in ores are actually trapped in sulfides and oxides, you need smelting to actually get the metal. Metal sulfides, oxides and even certain alloys can have radically different properties from the metal itself. What this all means is that, sure, people were making tools out of ores, I don't debate that, but you can't just treat any old ore as having properties similar to the metal they represent.

To make this idea work would require a lot of illogical hand-waving, but like I said, who cares? What I'm wondering is, what brings knapping ores to the table in terms of gameplay? Better stone tools with low durability?

Also, in your quest, look up arensenical bronze, it was actually THE way to make bronze until halfway up the bronze age, when people started making tin-bronze. Arsenical bronze is just the arsenic/copper alloy that you get when smelting tetrahedrite.

And another piece of help, be sure to check out this VERY useful page:

http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~GEL115/

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The only ore I have on the page is copper. I haven't gone beyond that as of yet. Stone tools made out of ores are supposed to be less useful because the metal inside them prevents the ore from being pounded into a much more useful shape, which means low durability and slower breakspeed - which means that ore-stone tools should be only used if you keep on picking up ores on the ground (and I am fairly positive some TFC players are in that predicament).

Interesting page and points, though.

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Yeah, to summarize, my point is that ores don't contain metals. They contain oxides and sulfates. Those oxides and sulfates contain metal in their chemical composition, but that means your ore is useless as a tool, unless you smelt it.

Might there be certain oxides and sulfates that make the ore-bearing rock more interesting to use? Very possible, but it probably wasn't used much, as you indicated.

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Might be more prudent in the future to jot unformed ideas like this into a .txt file, and not actually post them until they're a little more fleshed out

That said, the formatting on this is well thought out. If there was more actual content, this would be a very good post

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While your post is obviously lacking in content, I very much agree with the core motivation: TFC's metallurgy system is a techmod in disguise.

This is frustrating because so many of the other features (prospecting, proper mining, smithy construction, fuel production, and the metalworking itself) all feel so interesting and unique, but the movement from different tiers of metal is basically the same concept of vanilla minecraft's. (Moving from iron tools to successively better tiers of diamond)

Rather than simply being incremental improvements on previous tiers of metal, it would be nice if higher metals allowed for production of new items that were impossible with lower tier metals. (essentially the same idea as moving from the stone age into the iron; a wealth of new possibilities and activities open before you. It would be cool if that widening of possibilities continued later into the game.)

Note: I'm not suggesting that we restrict existing abilities to specific metals, that's limiting and frustrating. Rather, I'd like to see new technologies and pursuits made possible through the higher metals. (I recognize this is a pretty tall order; I'll have to think about it for awhile.)

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While your post is obviously lacking in content, I very much agree with the core motivation: TFC's metallurgy system is a techmod in disguise.

This is frustrating because so many of the other features (prospecting, proper mining, smithy construction, fuel production, and the metalworking itself) all feel so interesting and unique, but the movement from different tiers of metal is basically the same concept of vanilla minecraft's. (Moving from iron tools to successively better tiers of diamond)

Rather than simply being incremental improvements on previous tiers of metal, it would be nice if higher metals allowed for production of new items that were impossible with lower tier metals. (essentially the same idea as moving from the stone age into the iron; a wealth of new possibilities and activities open before you. It would be cool if that widening of possibilities continued later into the game.)

Note: I'm not suggesting that we restrict existing abilities to specific metals, that's limiting and frustrating. Rather, I'd like to see new technologies and pursuits made possible through the higher metals. (I recognize this is a pretty tall order; I'll have to think about it for awhile.)

Yeah, I hear you. This is what I've been harping about with game-play diversity. It would be fun if different tiers actually opened up new game-play options and not just slightly better versions of the same old.
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I have to attack your "hold down" the mouse button idea. My mouse HATES terra firma, and chiseling is nigh impossible when every few times I click my mouse, it clicks twice. Trying to hold something down for an extended period of time seems like a way of punishing people with defective special mice.

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