A reason for a solid foundations for your building. Collapses.

[AllenWL 186]

It seems there was some misunderstanding about my idea, and I blame myself and my poor writing.

So I re-wrote the entire post

 

What I want is in a cave-ins, all blocks in contact will also get a chance of caving in, regardless of the type.(Glass, obviously, should break instead of caving in)

I really don't think planks and logs and such should cause cave-ins themselves when broken, as that would be plain annoying. 

Cave-ins will be just like normal, and just be able to effect blocks that aren't stone as well(I hear version 78 has ores caving in too, so I don't think it'll be too hard to make other stuff cave-in as well)

Simply put, cave-ins are only made by breaking stone, same as it is now, however, instead of being restricted to stone(and in 78, ores), it spreads to, and can effect any block, and therefor, any buildings it touches

 

So building on somewhere with a solid floor will be better then building on say, next to/on a cave.

 

(on a side note, having things get a chance of caving in when hit by a explosion could be nice, except I don't see when it would be used, unless its in a pvp server[mainly to prevent floating builds that never collapse(as they are not touching anything that is cave-in able)])

[Kazahied 42]

Could also make a foundation block that functions like a support beam, it would be crafted from a 9 raw stone blocks and would stabilizes the house in all but a cave in (in which case it has half chance of propagating it)

[Euphoric 48]

There could also be small chance of stuff collapsing when you place them. There could also be (simple) logic that determines how stable the neighbor blocks are and that would increase or decrease the chance of collapse happening.

 

Also. Concrete.

[Kazahied 42]

Actually concrete isn't as strong as many think. Concrete is prone to cracking and shattering, note the pot holes in roads are due to the concrete below the asphalt giving way (in many cases). A solid stone foundation would be the strongest. although concrete would be a good man-made foundation.

 

The idea of blocks collapsing when placing them would make building annoying and tedious. The main idea behind this post is that structures are completely safe from cave ins. To remedy this and make players have to do fortification of structures so as not to have buildings fall over due to mining or subterfuge.

 

 

 

And the buildings should be once the foundation goes the building goes (the whole kit and caboodle) 

[starXephir 30]

And the buildings should be once the foundation goes the building goes (the whole kit and caboodle) 

 

And on your left you see the leaning tower of Terrafirma. Where the great town architect didn't replace the dirt foundations before b78.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Honestly? I don't like this idea. TFC is a mod for Minecraft, and the whole point of Minecraft is building awesome stuff. Spending hours to make something pretty only for someone else to come along, break one block and have the whole thing collapse is going to piss a lot of players off. I don't see how this adds anything to gameplay either, just another tedious thing to worry about.

[Euphoric 48]

How is TFC for building awesome stuff? Are you saying things like tedious mining, tedious metalcrafting, tedious start of the game and tedious making of materials is to allow building of awesome stuff?

 

And if player is stupid enough not to build from stable materials, then it is their problem something collapses. And only thing they can blame is their own incompetence. 

[Kazahied 42]

Hey now, no need to get hostile.

[Kazahied 42]

This would at least make a work around that is currently available with mining not usable. Currently if you take a chisel and hammer, and smooth the roof of a mine you can make a safety zone that will not collapse. If you do this along a main corridor you can mine in relative safety and just expand the smooth stone as you mine.

 

The idea of the the buildings collapsing would only take place in the event of a cave in (either by mining or explosives) and would only happen if the cave-in collapsed the blocks the building is standing on, at which point the building would take a reduced check of propagating the collapse (based on the strength of the foundation). Obviously a building based on stone would be relatively safe, but one built directly on top of sand would be really in danger of collapsing during a major shift in the sand.

 

This would not in essence take away peoples buildings on a whim. ( it is quite rare for cave-ins to reach the surface) but it would make people think about where to build. The only point that is weak is where the building touches the ground ( so flying houses are safe unless an explosion takes out the bottom of the house). But those Terran based buildings the foundation would be important.

[Euphoric 48]

You cannot chisel a block from the bottom if there is same type of block above it. So your chiseling of roof is not going to work. The reason for it is exactly what you said. 

 

And one thing .. how are caveins related to buildings? Mines are usually located far away from your main base. And even local base is just bunch of wood and thatch.

[413crossram 8]

There is already a mod that incorporates this exact idea, so there is absolutely no point in bringing it to suggestions here.

[AllenWL 186]

Honestly? I don't like this idea. TFC is a mod for Minecraft, and the whole point of Minecraft is building awesome stuff. Spending hours to make something pretty only for someone else to come along, break one block and have the whole thing collapse is going to piss a lot of players off. I don't see how this adds anything to gameplay either, just another tedious thing to worry about.

Well, I wasn't really thinking like that, not really.

Besides, removing one block from a house doesn't make it collapse, you know?

I was thinking more of the houses themselves don't collapse, but if say, the ground benith it caves in for some reason, instead of the buildings floating in the air above it, it has a chance of collapsing along with the ground. It wouldn't really be a problem unless you have a cave below your house or build your house on gravel/sand.

In servers, you can always use plot protection to prevent others from tunneling under the town and collapsing it

 

 

There is already a mod that incorporates this exact idea, so there is absolutely no point in bringing it to suggestions here.

But there are also mods that have better storage, more crops, brewing, better mobs/animals, more biomes, better boats, stamina, hot-air balloons, more explosives, mechanical power, and different weapons/combat. Are you saying that all of these should not be suggested because there exists another mod that has that feature?

[413crossram 8]

But there are also mods that have better storage, more crops, brewing, better mobs/animals, more biomes, better boats, stamina, hot-air balloons, more explosives, mechanical power, and different weapons/combat. Are you saying that all of these should not be suggested because there exists another mod that has that feature?

 

What I'm saying is don't suggest a complete overhaul on a fundamental concept on this mod.  You're not going to get many people to support it when there's already an option to play the game, in this completely fundamental way, somewhere else.  Also, they already have made the way things work, such as supports and cave-ins, a bit different in B78 if you haven't heard.

[starXephir 30]

While a lot of people like to get realism from TFC, it's still a game. That cantilever of planks is fine, its chock full of nails. That ledge of smoothed stone? You want a trowel and mortar? If you raise the bar for realism in physics, there would need to be a system to keep this a game and let you build what could otherwise be 'impossible' structures. As of right now wooden supports could easily do the job of holding up any house. If they had stress limits you'd just be throwing countless calculations at the server while you build or then do a block update.

 

The problem then comes to the foundation. What would define a stable foundation? Tedium? Having to dig the whole thing out and place a layer of thatch then stone? Most people would just end up building on a platform of stone. Which looks pretty cool, and you see a lot of minecraft builders do it to make a house look "Medieval" or gothic. Which comes back to what Kitty said, building awesome and pretty things is all part of the game. Why punish players by forcing them to adhere to stable or themed build style instead of expressing themselves and causing unnecessary frustration?

 

Edit: I'd like to add while it seems like I may have written in an aggressive tone. I don't disagree with this idea. It just shouldn't force the player to do additional work. While other tasks require additional work in TFC vs Minecraft. These largely come in the form of time expense, or are due to your limited technology and a need for 'believability'. If house stability was linked to technological advancement I would be fine with it. But as it stands, that is already the case. Cobblestone walls with wooden support beams collapse as they should. Building it with a thatch foundation will prevent soil collapse/erosion from toppling part of the house.

[AllenWL 186]

I see that some people don't get what I mean.

And I get that I worded my idea in a way that leaves much room for misinterpretation, and is frankly, misleading

 

I'm not going for realism in any way, and I don't wan't some crazy physics thing that makes you build arches and columns and supports to prevent the blocks from falling and all that. I don't like those. I like building 'impossible' buildings as much as anyone. I don't want people to have to add supports to their home, and I don't want all the floating castles and giant, support-less castles falling to ruin. And I really don't want people to re-learn building.

 

What I want is really simple.

Stone caves in, but is the only thing that really does so

Apparently, in build 78, ores will cave in too.

My idea is this. when there is cave-in, the cave-in can spread to any block, not just stone(and ores).

So when you are digging under your house and make something cave-in, there is a chance for the house above to cave in as well.

 

The 'solid foundation' I speak of isn't anything fancy, it's basically a place with no caves directly below it, so your house doesn't fall right in when you try to dig a basement or something

[Euphoric 48]

And how often do you mine under your house to the point that cave-ins become a problem? You are talking about case that is extremely uncommon. 99.9% of mining happens deep underground and there is no need to account for that remaining 0.1%

[Kazahied 42]

Mostly for Pvp. Many castles have poor foundations. Using cave ins to exploit this would be a nice mechanic in the effort of a combat revamp.

[AllenWL 186]

Pretty much what kazahied said.

It's something worth remembering, but not something that will make building a pain, or something you have too keep in mind 24/7

[starXephir 30]

You would need to cave in a whole lot to make it seem feasible. The load shared along the rest of the walls/structure would account for even a fairly large gap in the wall, but I see where you're going with this.

What if this was combined with the explosives requests. The idea is that explosives are used to break up our fictional mortar and nails.. An Underminer's Charge can be used to break "block bonds". If you dig or blow up some of the foundation under someone's walls. Placing and exploding an Underminer's Charge will destabilise the structure above (popping off supports?) and cause it to collapse, regardless if it is a physics block, as well as doing some additional damage to the foundation. This way there doesn't need to be a block physics overhaul.

 

There could be a massive number of block updates though. If done to a tower (which would be amazing to see!) the block limits might approach the Sequoia Constant, and crash the server. Chests and other block/tile/whatever entities would not be effected without a lot of work.

 

Edit, obviously there is a counter to the Underminer's  Charge. The defenders could build their stone walls slightly deeper to impede mining efforts. More dirt would be falling down on them as they go lower, causing the amount of work to increase rapidly the deeper the foundation. Forts build directly on the stone layer or a claystone-like biome have this benefit without any of the extra work. In-addition to providing the stone for the walls (I bunch of cliffside forts in Italy like this, you could even see the unfinished blocks half chiselled out). The defenders could also build their walls along a river other natural water sources (Like an island fortress). Water would stop the explosion doing damage to the foundation, and if possible, prevent above blocks from breaking. Water is also a massive deterrent to mining attempts. Wooden supports, if placed far enough back/up would be safe from the explosion of the Underminer's Charge and aid the walls should part of them try to collapse. Giving you that cool, somewhat organic looking walk way with out reaching support beams. It's hard on the defenders but the solutions are surprisingly realistic. If the Underminer's Charge (Which could just be a directional Miner's Charge, with an awesome side effect when placed upwards) does anything. It will limit desirable fort locations, and make people choose harder. Having a mountain top fortress or even simply building your Keep on a hill (as they did) gives you much greater defence against the Charge.

[abregado 3]

perhaps just have bricks and other non-gravity affected blocks only be able to get placed on foundations blocks, or other blocks that are on top of foundations? So before you build your awesome structure you need to plan out how big it is and map the foundation out with these special blocks. Im of the opinion that structures should never get checked for collapse, but this way at least you cant build and enormous castle on top of dirt. or immense overhanging structures (without support beams)

[Kazahied 42]

@starXephir

 

I have undercut entire towns in pvp servers. Detonated the equivalent of around 9 tons of TNT, most modern structures would not survive without significant damage. I mean i get where you are coming from, most castles will not be brought down with a single explosive. But the average house will be very vulnerable to explosives/ cave ins.

[AllenWL 186]

but this way at least you cant build and enormous castle on top of dirt. or immense overhanging structures (without support beams)

 

Umm, yea, did you miss that part when I said I don't  want people unable to build giant support-less castles and physic-defying floating buildings and overhangs?

I don't wan't collapses to be a thing you have to really plan for and build special foundation and add supports and generally just mess stuff up and limit your builds.

 

I'm thinking more of a second option in demolishing buildings or something like that.

I don't want certain structures to fall if they don't meet the 'regulations' for safe building or anything like that.

All I want is for cave-ins to spread to blocks other then stone

[abregado 3]

 

All I want is for cave-ins to spread to blocks other then stone

 

 

ahh that makes more sense now.

[starXephir 30]

@starXephir

 

I have undercut entire towns in pvp servers. Detonated the equivalent of around 9 tons of TNT, most modern structures would not survive without significant damage. I mean i get where you are coming from, most castles will not be brought down with a single explosive. But the average house will be very vulnerable to explosives/ cave ins.

If you're willing to spend the time Dwarfing around. It would a downer not to see the whole thing come crashing down.

 

I still think a good solution would be to have a multi purpose directional explosive charge. Solves some of the mining and explosives requests, thereby additionally saving on item IDs. 'Destabalizing' the blocks above it when placed as such, config-able for non-pvp servers, you could finnally be rewarded for your dedication.

 

Though I'd hate to see the negative reprecussions it may have against you... Multi-server wide most wanted. Hunted down for a price. Damned by builders everywhere. Too much fun for one man!

[Kazahied 42]

That's me, the bane of builders. (at least on servers where it is allowed). I tend to build underground anyway, using proper supports/obsidian where needed.

 

Was on a IC2 server once, built a massive bunker out of reinforced concrete. I buried the bunker and completely hid the entrance. A few weeks later a large town was setup on the surface, I kept tabs, hung in the shadows. A while later a server war sparked and the city was nuked into oblivion., the invaders found my bunker floating in the crater. Was all like "Sup".

 

 

The idea is not to hammer people with tedious and useless building. But to add a small amount of realism to building.

 

As for floating castles they should be impervious to cave ins as-long as they are blown up (or otherwise destabilized). the building wont collapse if you destroy a part of it, only when a cave-in or explosion affects it or directly next to it. The buildings are also very resilient, having a reducing chance of propagation for each block.