Gem tipped tools

[daafroman 0]

As a focus to make some use out of certain gems, I think it would be a feasably realistic idea to include gem tipped tools. Obviously you couldn't use just any type of gem because some gems available are much softer than the metals you might want to add them to, but say diamond, saphire and ruby as a handful of examples. All of those are reasonably hard gems that, in real life, are used to increase both the durability and efficiency of the tools they are embedded in.The quality of the gem, as well as the type, could act to affect the added efficiency to, say, a pickaxe. Whereas a cracked gem would only be a neglible boost to the efficiency while a exquisit one would be the best boost.To make this 'upgrade' a little harder to obtain than just sluicing for diamonds and slapping it on a copper pickaxe as well as more realistic, I also suggest that raw gemstones not be usable for the tool tipping as they are. Instead they must be cut on a special device teired for each gem type (IE: Diamond can cut ruby and saphire, but -only- diamond can cut diamond), then 'soldered' onto the tip with another station (Welding at an anvil could suffice for example).

 

As a more optional 'realism' feature, the gem could have a small chance to fall out and get lost if it's not soldered in properly (or be destroyed if a low quality gem is used), yeilding a blunt version of the tool which would have the same durability of the basic tool of the same type, but a drastically reduced efficiency. This would be a difficult feature to implement however, so it's more of an off note than a part of the original suggestion.P.S: I would like to appologize if this suggestion was made before, but I did look arround and didn't see this specific suggestion made. So I decided I would make an account to make it myself.

[DA_HOBO2_URLEFT 6]

I like this suggestion (mostly because I'm really eager to have some kind of use for all the gems I have). The only potential issue with it that I see is that that would create a lot of item ID's. Every kind of pickaxe multiplied by every (usuable) kind of gem multiplied by each gem condition. 

[daafroman 0]

That was a concern that came to mind for me as well. After a bit of thought, that it could be a lesser issue if you treated embedded gems like enchantments are treated in vanilla minecraft. You would then only need to add a series of 'enchanments' that relate to the gem embedded. The quality of the gem could then affect the level of enchantment with higher levels being given by higher quality gemstone. The only problem I see with this method of handling it would be the inherant desire to have a graphical representation of the embedded gem on the tool sprite itself. Of course, the names of the enchantments could be very straitforward like "Diamond Tipped" and so forth.

[AllenWL 186]

I think you mean diamond blades, and I heard they where used for electrical saws, and if not wet, make tons of silica dust which is extremely harmful.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

I'm trying to imagine how adding a gemstone to the edge or the tip of tool would enhance it's abilities and coming up short. If anything, adding say a diamond to the tip of your sword isn't going to affect the majority of the blade that you use, and unless the gem is properly sharpened and the correct shape that it is flush with the rest of the blade, it's also going to cause issues.

 

You say that this mechanic is used in real life, could you please link some examples including images?

[daafroman 0]

Sure. This is a close up of the most common use, being a diamond saw blade: Generally used for cutting things that will destroy a normal blade in a handful of cuts or when something needs to be cut in fine detail to prevent breakage (IE: glass).

As for diamond tipped chisels, here's a selection of multiple (if you look closely, the tip -is- translucent and is hence not carbide):

A pickaxe would have a similar embedding of diamond to a chisel, since it's essentially a large chisel in real life.

As far as axes and swords go? I don't have any pictures since normally a solid metal axe will do the trick with minimal sharpening and swords have long since been pushed out of practical use by firearms, but I imagine a long blade (axes, swords, knives and the like) would be a series of such gemstones cut in a similar fashion had they been improved beyond that. Probably inherantly serrated due to the number of diamonds needed.
 

A hammer, admittingly, would serve very little purpose to have a diamond embedded in it as the handle generally breaks before the head.

If you look in pretty much any hardware store, Diamond saw blades run for arround $12 a pop. Diamond tipped chisels being about the same if they carry them.

[AllenWL 186]

Look up diamond blade and you get this wikipedia link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiamond_blade&ei=6TNGU8vUCtCziQehoIDwAw&usg=AFQjCNGPRQzTB-1dVRxkGt-mhHaRODz7lg&sig2=ClzngAwR0zW5cv4nsFihKg&bvm=bv.64507335,d.aGc

 

This is what it says about how it works:

A diamond blade grinds, rather than cuts, through material. Blades typically have rectangular teeth (segments) which contain diamond crystals embedded throughout the segment for grinding through very hard materials.

 

I don't think axes or swords would benefit from this, as both use cutting action, not grinding action.

[daafroman 0]

Hm. Well if we're going to cite wikipedia here... Have a look at this > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_knife

 

 

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Can this be done without using technology past the 14th century? That diamond knife was invented in 1955, and uses modern technology such as epoxy plastics.

[daafroman 0]

Yes. Easily so in fact. Epoxy plastic has mostly replaced regular silver solder (For those unaware, soldering can also be done with tin or lead as well as silver) in most jewelery mostly due to the price differences (Some jewelers will still use silver solder and these are concidered more valuable products). Up until the invention of plastics, soldering was the prefered choice for mounting a metal object without peircing an additional hole, and soldering dates back farther than almost any history book does.

 

Edit: As for gem cutting, that technology has existed for quite some time as well. I'm actually struggling to remember a civilization that -doesn't- have some instance of a cut gem.

[MrBadboy 0]

Like your self Daa. I also too. Have always wanted to see, gems used more often. As it stands. From what the wiki shows. They only have, one or two uses. With out extra mod support from other parties. In all truth, I can't say I'll ever see them getting in to the tool category. It just isn't very reasonable. I'm sure it could be possible. It's just not very realistic. I've also read all the comments, so i haven't mist any debates.

 

Like many Ideas, there all great in their own way. It's the thought and effort that counts in my book. If there were magic in TFC. Enchantments seem the most obviously choice. With so many gems/rocks to choose from. It would add in a whole new system in to the game. Something I can't say we'll ever see or anytime soon. Like many of us still waiting for build 78 for a year now. So with that said. The next best thing, is small things like. Javelin tiped Gem'edRocks or used as cutting/cleaning tools. As for precious gems like diamonds, sapphires and rubys. Which are normally to small to be used for anything useful. We'll have to wait and see.

 

-

Mike

[daafroman 0]

I personally beg to differ on the realism factor, seeing as such tools actually do exist in real life. It's also much more realistic than being able to make solid blocks of diamond and emerald or solid diamond tools and armor like you can in vanilla minecraft.I am perfectly fine if this doesn't get implemented to be honest, but there's really not much use for gems even in real life beyond decoration if not for tools. In a game? Enchanting is an option. Sure. But that's about the limit and that's still against the whole idea of aiming for realism IMO. Maybe as a currency. *shrugs*. To me, using them for tools seems like the most realistic means to actually make use of them. I'm not terribly fond of them being a form of currency since I prefer the 'cow for a couple sacks of grain' trading method in minecraft, but it would be something. As far as I'm concerned, their only purpose in the mod as of this moment is to waste inventory space. They may as well be removed entirely until their implemented somehow.

[AllenWL 186]

Hm. Well if we're going to cite wikipedia here... Have a look at this > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_knife

Diamond knives are used for medical and scientific applications where an extremely sharp and long-lasting edge is essential

 

I don't think we have a need for diamond knives in TFC.

Besides, if you try to swing a diamond sword, it would most likely break, wont it?

I mean, I bet that diamond knife is great for precision jobs, but I won't bet on blocking any hits with it or using it for long

​Diamond is hard, but that just means it won't scratch and can take a extremely keen edge.

I'd imagine it to be extremely brittle

[daafroman 0]

Fair enough, long, thin strips of gemstone is officially out of the question. (Honestly I was just supporting that for having the tools more rounded anyways.) So lets leave the tools with blades out of the gem tipping idea. However, that still leaves 'point based' tools like chisels and picks. There's... not really much point to tipping a prospecters pick, so let's ignore that tool as well. This leaves -only- chisels and regular pickaxes. Any complaints for those?

[AllenWL 186]

I think saws will work as well.

 

I mean, don't we have diamond blade saws in real life?

[daafroman 0]

We do. As with diamond knife blades. But it's been already been decided by various others that bladed weapons wouldn't be realistic enough or fit the 'time frame' of the mod theme. <shrugs> Besides, diamond saws, as they exist in real life, would be horrible for cutting wood like the saws we have in the game. The teeth are so fine they would become clogged in moments. I could choose to use the sythe cutting leaves and using a hammer to make sticks by smashing logs as well as various other factors to combat this 'realism' thing, but I won't.In the end, I just want to see a practical use for gems. I personally don't want to see enchantments and decoration in a mod that's themed on semi-realistic survival.

[Terex 108]

This discussion on gems is kinda dumb if we are going to be pedantic. The protection meter, the only thing crafted with gems in the game is not a thing in real life so ... take that out? I would be happy, if anything, we can combine gem fragments into larger gems like in the games Diablo 2, 3.

[AllenWL 186]

Well, combining broken gem fragments into a big, whole gem makes just as much, or less sense then protection meters in my opinion.

 

But we aren't going for 'realism', we are going for 'believable'

Although the protection meter fails in both..... 

But it doesn't exist in real life/its not beielvable so remove it seems a bad policy to me

[Terex 108]

I'm not arguing for extreme realism. On the contrary. But my mild suggestion for use of gems is a fair one. I'm not suggesting to alter gameplay.Combining gems gives a reason to keep the tens of pieces of every type probably only two double chests can hold. This mechanic would let you achieve, one day, the perfect gem of all types for display purposes. 

[daafroman 0]

I would just like to say something here. I can get behind the 'Possible prior to the 15th century' thing because it's pretty clear as to what the cutoff is, but 'Beleivable' in this scenario is pretty much an umbrella term for 'something that is posible within the scope of the world presented'. It's obvious that Minecraft has quite a different scope than the real world as far as physics and 'what is posible' so the protection meter makes perfect sense if you figure the given definition of 'beleivable'. Also, creepers, skeletons and zombies don't exist IRL either, but they remain in TFC. Again though, in the minecraft world, this is beleivable. That's because it's within the scope of the specific reality we are talking about. And in the case of TFC stuff, Sluices don't actually scan an area for ores, they merely clean the dirt from whatever crud you put in. So if there's going to be ore in it, it's because the area you collected the dirt from has said ore in it. Not because there's ore nearby.In any case, What I mean to imply is that 'beleivable' is a horrible word for describing what exactly to expect in the mod as it mearly implies that 'given the context, something like this could happen'. It should be made a little more clear as to what exactly the scope of the mod is aiming for. Which last I checked, is a more serious survival than vanilla offers, not neccesarily uber-realism comparable to real life. Given that 'realism' and 'beleivability' as far as comparability to real life is already shot in -many- feilds, isn't it fair to lighten up on the whole 'is it posible in real life' thing? Just a bit?

[DA_HOBO2_URLEFT 6]

 Also, creepers, skeletons and zombies don't exist IRL either, but they remain in TFC. Again though, in the minecraft world, this is beleivable. That's because it's within the scope of the specific reality we are talking about.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the developers are working on finding ways to restrict these mobs in TFC. I also read somewhere that they're planning on getting rid of creepers all together. 

[daafroman 0]

Still though, there's plenty of other points even ignoring the current hostile mob list that should be taken into concideration when accounting for the realism of the game. A lot of which being involved with core TFC mechanics. If everything was down to the brass tacks perfect in realism, the mod pack wouldn't be any fun for most people. There always has to some sort of leniancy as far as the limits of how realistic a game can be before you start removing the entertainment value.