Clay refining

[Thrainn 2]

However, I see that there isn't much willingness to discuss a change in mechanics in this forum, so I will let it go, and just accept that this is the kind of mod where you have to restart until you're lucky enough to get a viable map.

I would very much recommend to do so. The thing is, it would just cost a tremendous time and effort to code this, with very little reward in my opinion.I have created several TFC worlds, and in none so far had I any lack of clay. The 500 rainfall requirements are really not so rare (rainfall values go much higher than that!), and where this is the case (if I had to guess, in about 80% of the surface?), clay is so abundant that you'd never know what to do with it. You also won't find any clay in the real life desert or savannahs or similarly dry regions on earth.I assume you had bad luck and spawned once in a dryer area and got really frustrated when not finding clay in the first few ingame days. But I really do not believe that this happens so frequently when creating a new world that it would really justify a coding commitment like this. It just doesn't happen often enough.Wouldn't you like to see the very limited time and effort of the devs rather put into things like the announced body temperature system, better surface mobs, canoes/boats and the like?

[Bunsan 323]

Also you suggest that to refine the clay would take several in game days. I would challenge you to find a map in which there was no clay within a day or two of walking. Even if the refining took just 1 in game day players would choose to travel one day in hopes of finding clay. Especially since a <500 rainfall area would not be appealing for other reasons as well, i.e. no fruit trees, etc. Devoting a substantial amount of time to creating a mechanic that players would not even use is not something that is likely to happen.

[munin295 18]

I'm not really interested in a ubiquitous clay layer, but I am vaguely interested in ideas that would extend the stone age longer (making the acquisition of metal more of an achievement) or more, um, realistic. In real-life, leather came long before ceramics, so I enjoy thinking about how this might be accomplished in TFC.



 

All you really need to do with an animal skin/fur is scrape it, to get the easily-rottable gunk off of it, making rawhide. Without initial treatment with brains (yah, not happening), salt, or a lime solution, it will be more prone to rotting which can be represented with a lower durability value. Without tanning it won't be as flexible -- it might be suitable for a helmet, but not leggings, etc.

 But still, fully-processed leather was well in evidence in the paleolithic era, before earthenware generally in the mesolithic (note: I am a wikipedia-level expert in this subject matter). Can we process leather with primitive materials?

 



If we need to make some sort of soaking container, what if we used cobblestone (made from loose rocks) to surround a fresh water block on four sides and bottom, representing blocking off part of a water body as a work area. Then we can sneak-right-click the water block (or, specifically, the cobblestone under the water) with flux, scraped hide, or a log to create the appropriate soaking "container" (since coding with water is difficult, it would probably be the cobblestone under the water that is transformed into a processing container, but it might render materials above it in the water). Maybe leather made in this way takes longer, or produces fewer pieces of leather, so metal-age barrels will still be desired (in addition to their portability).



 

Now we can create leather in the stone age pre-clay which allows leather bags and leather cordage which we can use to process clay (in this scenario, clay requires processing with leather bags, extending the tech tree). Leather bags might have the same slots as ceramic vessels but wouldn't preserve food (maybe only allow lighter objects too?). Maybe leather cordage can also be used to tie dogs up to something (…, a tree?) but not to pull heavier beasts. We could also have leather waterskins to help hydration before ceramics are achieved (leather waterskins are much more believable than insanely heavy ceramic water jugs -- frankly, all ceramic containers should probably be back slot items).



While leather in the stone age might be believable, would it adversely affect TFC gameplay? It would allow leather armor at an earlier stage, which allows you to take an extra hit or two. But it still takes some time and effort to reach leather, so I think that's fair (and leather armor in the stone age seems appropriate since the metal age allows metal armor). Quivers are useful, but not exactly game-changers. Saddles, though, I'm not sure about, since horses weren't really domesticated in the stone age, I think. Perhaps saddles might require an additional manufacturing step in a 3x3 crafting grid.



Going even futher, clay might also require appropriate sizing (material added to stiffen the clay so it doesn't slump when fired). Sand is an early sizing, but sand seems trivial to find now with the Build 79 beaches. Maybe when a new world is created, a few random sand types are chosen as "appropriate" sizing, so you have to experiment with different sands to find ones which work, and possibly explore for new sands to find one that will enable ceramics (I actually think it might be interesting to randomize ores too so that you have to experiment to figure out which ores are "the copper", which are the "bronze additives", etc. -- I wouldn't mind the first few months being a nomad looking for new sands/ores/etc., with a lot of experimental failures trying to figure out which materials will get us to the metal age -- that's a stone age).



Well, I've rambled on, so that's it.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

@munin Just for clarification, when you are talking about the "stone age" are you talking about pre-clay? It seems like everything you are describing would only be used prior to actually finding clay, and having clay doesn't necessarily mean you are in the metal age. In case you didn't know, it is entirely possible in TFC to get a full set of leather armor and a quiver before ever getting your first metal tool. The entire process does require a large clay vessel though, so it is post-clay stone age.

 

In the future, it might help if you split up your discussion with three ages instead of two: Stone-Age. Clay-Age. Metal-Age.

 

As TFC currently stands, Stone-Age and Clay-Age are essentially one in the same, and I strongly doubt that is going to change.

[munin295 18]

Yes, I was thinking leather being pre-clay (leather bags being a prerequisite to processing clay). I was thinking paleolithic vs. mesolithic, but stone-age vs. clay-age makes sense too (some regions got ceramics before microliths, so it's not like there is an exact tech path).

Extending the stone age is fanciful thinking, just exploring ideas.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Extending the stone age is fanciful thinking, just exploring ideas.

Don't really think finding clay is so hard that justifies all the changes proposed here. Is a question of having the resources that you need close by when you spawn.

I like to imagine that spawning in a new world you are a shipwreck survivor in a estrange land.You may be luck and spawn in a tropical paradise, or a dry and bare desert. I think it adds to the realism of the mod that we have areas with no trees or clay. I am usually able to find clay on my first day, as is the first thing I look for, You can survive for 2 days without food or water, but clay means easy shelter.

That said I would really love to have more content in the stone age as historically farming and animal husbandry came long before metals. Dee here