Mineshafts and mining

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

So I've checked all the other pages here and I am FLABBERGASTED that no one else has mentioned this, unless it's already on a list of planned updates and I'm just an idiot who can't read.

Minecarts and tracks.

We have vertical and horizontal support beams to hold stone passages against collapse. We have enormous ore veins and aggressively small inventory space that guarantees multiple required trips to tap out a vein. These things CRY out for vanilla's minecart system, or even an improvement

Now I think that railcraft's coke oven is a fair representation of how to get creosote oil, and coal coke would probably be great to power a forge. Plus, the built structure fits in very well with TFC's in-world crafting feel.

Now, I'm not saying bioxx should just copy-paste railcraft code in here, the coke oven would probably have a crafted block the same way the bloomery does, Rail beds would probably be placed in the world, spikes would be crafted on an anvil (copper and up) yielding 4 per ingot, and then when you get the rails, you would right-click them on the placed railbeds with a metal hammer in your inventory to change the railbed into completed rail, and it would remove 1 spike from your inventory as well as adding durability damage to the hammer. Carts could be made with 5 wrought iron in the vanilla recipe, or using a double ingot and a plan, and chest carts could be made in the vanilla recipe as well using the wrought iron cart. No furnace carts, they just don't seem to fit the feel of the iron age.

...Maybe if you had to make them from steel...

Also, having generated mineshafts replace fence posts with vertical support beams of biome-native wood, and replace planks with horizontal beams of the same - would both eliminate vanilla materials, and help players/add to the feel of it at the same time

[valkupo 17]

It has more or less been reference as a transportation problem randomly among posts for other things, but this would be the first thread I believe. I agree that some form of faster transportation is needed once the Agriculture update is all settled.

And if the vanilla mineshafts are bothering you I believe you're supposed to turn off "generated structures" when creating a new world anyways.

[Devlin 51]

It has more or less been reference as a transportation problem randomly among posts for other things, but this would be the first thread I believe. I agree that some form of faster transportation is needed once the Agriculture update is all settled.

And if the vanilla mineshafts are bothering you I believe you're supposed to turn off "generated structures" when creating a new world anyways.

i don't think that it is that he does not like the structures, i just believe that he would like to see the generated structures replaced with tfcradt materials, i for one would love to see villages made out of biome related materials, just so long as it can be done without looking hodgpog, or he can diable them entirely and add in his own new and improved generated structures that server more purpose, like for human npc's and and town mines for those npc's, heck maybe he can eve have the npc's have little minig outposts in random locations so they can sell ores and rare stone like basalt and granite to you, and the mines will be ore rich,

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

And if the vanilla mineshafts are bothering you I believe you're supposed to turn off "generated structures" when creating a new world anyways.

It's not that they bother me, I think they're actually a great thing to have and add even more to the cast-away feeling the mod offers - I just feel that adding the support beams instead of the plank/fence arrangement would be a good idea

[Teranz 37]

It's not that they bother me, I think they're actually a great thing to have and add even more to the cast-away feeling the mod offers - I just feel that adding the support beams instead of the plank/fence arrangement would be a good idea

He has a point...

[valkupo 17]

He does indeed. I hate it when I misunderstand someone

[Platoonsgt1 4]

How about:

Double Ingot -> Anvil -> Minecart

Ingot -> Anvil -> 8 (or so) Tracks

Horizontal Support Beam or Planks + Axe/Saw -> Sleepers

You place sleepers on the ground, then tracks on top, and you are left with minecart tracks

You craft a chest into a minecart (as in legit)

And agreed with no furnace minecarts, you can't even craft a furnace

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

How about:

Double Ingot -> Anvil -> Minecart

Ingot -> Anvil -> 8 (or so) Tracks

Horizontal Support Beam or Planks + Axe/Saw -> Sleepers

You place sleepers on the ground, then tracks on top, and you are left with minecart tracks

You craft a chest into a minecart (as in legit)

And agreed with no furnace minecarts, you can't even craft a furnace

Well I already said that double ingot + plan = minecart...

Frankly about the tracks tho, I think 8 is just a bit too much. I'm thinking maybe 4, which would be their max stack. Remember, rails are fuckin heavy.

Why the sleepers tho? Steve making mine tracks should represent the absolute earliest form of rail making, which as far as I know was 'beds + rail * spike = track'

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

well I suppose... if we ever do get to the point where Steve can make steam engines... placing one in a minecart could replicate the vanilla furnace cart...

But that's a thought for much later on

[Platoonsgt1 4]

Well I already said that double ingot + plan = minecart...

Frankly about the tracks tho, I think 8 is just a bit too much. I'm thinking maybe 4, which would be their max stack. Remember, rails are fuckin heavy.

Why the sleepers tho? Steve making mine tracks should represent the absolute earliest form of rail making, which as far as I know was 'beds + rail * spike = track'

Fair enough about the sleepers, and I must have missed the part where you mentioned the Ingot -> Minecart thing.

I was thinking 8 rails, because you need so many of them to go anywhere. It would make sense to have a small max stack, but also make it very time consuming to use them.

Also, we have a chisel. Why can't we carve stuff like rails (of things) out of the solid rock?

Chisel + Smooth Stone -> Carving Menu -> Rails, Stairs, Slabs, Supports, Fences, etc..

[Lumireaver 101]

Wooden pump trolleys instead of minecarts? Costs more stamina to use than walking, but gets you there faster than walking. Linking chests to it increases stamina consumption. In other words, transporting yourself, and the goods you're mining/farming at a reasonable speed is probably going to facilitate the need for a farm or renewable food source, or...something. (This fact sort of puts an invisible barrier and kind of makes a rail system a neat little milestone...)

If you guys like the idea, the kind of wood used could even affect how long the trolley lasts before needing to be replaced or maintained and how heavy it is, which could play into how much stamina it drains...

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Fair enough about the sleepers, and I must have missed the part where you mentioned the Ingot -> Minecart thing.

I was thinking 8 rails, because you need so many of them to go anywhere. It would make sense to have a small max stack, but also make it very time consuming to use them.

Also, we have a chisel. Why can't we carve stuff like rails (of things) out of the solid rock?

Chisel + Smooth Stone -> Carving Menu -> Rails, Stairs, Slabs, Supports, Fences, etc..

...because when was the last time you saw stone railroad tracks.

the stairs and slabs and even fences I can see happening... but just no for the rails. That's silly. It's the same 'logic' behind stone swords, which bioxx also (thankfully) removed

And Lumy... not a bad idea lol. Not sure how your hunger bar would be able to tell the difference between a trolly with a chest and a trolly without one, but I like thinking about a right-clicked cart that moves via hand-power. Kinda like a mobile bellows, lol

[Platoonsgt1 4]

...because when was the last time you saw stone railroad tracks.

Dwarf Fortress

Stone is strong in compression, (Y12 Physics...) and a minecart running along tracks mainly causes compressive forces on the tracks, so why not? They could even look like cuts into the ground, instead of actual rails on top

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Dwarf Fortress

Stone is strong in compression, (Y12 Physics...) and a minecart running along tracks mainly causes compressive forces on the tracks, so why not? They could even look like cuts into the ground, instead of actual rails on top

You know what handles point-focused compressive forces really well? Malleable materials like metal. You know what doesn't? Brittle materials like stone. Shear forces on a stone railway would shatter it into dust the first time a proper cart passed over it.

Stone does well under compression when the compressive force is distributed over a plane, like when it's supporting the foundation of a building. But imagine putting a building on wheels? The entire weight of the structure is now being concentrated on 4 points - for a particulate substance like stone, that point pressure is going to separate the granular elements and crush the stone. Metal, being homogenous, has a far better chance against that since it has no 'weak points' at the small scale like stone does.

I defy you to show me real-life examples of stone railways that have lasted more than a month without CONSTANT maintenance

[Platoonsgt1 4]

You know what handles point-focused compressive forces really well? Malleable materials like metal. You know what doesn't? Brittle materials like stone. Shear forces on a stone railway would shatter it into dust the first time a proper cart passed over it.

Stone does well under compression when the compressive force is distributed over a plane, like when it's supporting the foundation of a building. But imagine putting a building on wheels? The entire weight of the structure is now being concentrated on 4 points - for a particulate substance like stone, that point pressure is going to separate the granular elements and crush the stone. Metal, being homogenous, has a far better chance against that since it has no 'weak points' at the small scale like stone does.

I defy you to show me real-life examples of stone railways that have lasted more than a month without CONSTANT maintenance

I do agree that embossed railways are indeed a bit too far fetched, but think about engraved railways. The significant amount of stone should easily disperse the weight from the minecart's wheels, while the minecart would have a significantly limited top speed to to the friction of the rough stone (Although you would smooth it). You could require it to have neighboring solid blocks to prevent it from breaking when a minecart passes over it, but it should last at least some amount of time.

The player would be in the metal age though (Unless you can make wooden minecarts. It can happen), so metal track would easily be feasible.

If wooden minecarts were added, they should be able to run around on (Wooden? and) stone tracks, without damaging them significantly, but they would have limited inventory space (about 4 slots each, just make lots of them )

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I do agree that embossed railways are indeed a bit too far fetched, but think about engraved railways. The significant amount of stone should easily disperse the weight from the minecart's wheels, while the minecart would have a significantly limited top speed to to the friction of the rough stone (Although you would smooth it). You could require it to have neighboring solid blocks to prevent it from breaking when a minecart passes over it, but it should last at least some amount of time.

The player would be in the metal age though (Unless you can make wooden minecarts. It can happen), so metal track would easily be feasible.

If wooden minecarts were added, they should be able to run around on (Wooden? and) stone tracks, without damaging them significantly, but they would have limited inventory space (about 4 slots each, just make lots of them )

See now... I can definitely see engraved tracks working with a wooden hand-pump trolley like Lumy up there suggested (no inventory on it tho, it would just be for travel and maybe to push cart trolleys). It would be fragile though, like a boat - crashing it would break it into sticks and planks, and breaking it with your pick/sword/whathaveyou would do the same. Then also have a metal version that doesn't break at all, is much faster, and drops the normal item when hit by the player, but requires real metal tracks

[Platoonsgt1 4]

See now... I can definitely see engraved tracks working with a wooden hand-pump trolley like Lumy up there suggested (no inventory on it tho, it would just be for travel and maybe to push cart trolleys). It would be fragile though, like a boat - crashing it would break it into sticks and planks, and breaking it with your pick/sword/whathaveyou would do the same. Then also have a metal version that doesn't break at all, is much faster, and drops the normal item when hit by the player, but requires real metal tracks

I would still have an inventory with a wooden cart, because there's not much point otherwise. It doesn't have to be a good one, and it would be limited to carrying objects with limited stacks (as in, not 64), such as ores and logs.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I would still have an inventory with a wooden cart, because there's not much point otherwise. It doesn't have to be a good one, and it would be limited to carrying objects with limited stacks (as in, not 64), such as ores and logs.

But here's the thing, when was the last time you saw a cart trolley that could carry even a decent amount of items AND a person? I think wooden trolleys could potentially attach chests, and then the one YOU'RE on could push the chest one. But you couldn't have a chest and a player on one at the same time

[Platoonsgt1 4]

But here's the thing, when was the last time you saw a cart trolley that could carry even a decent amount of items AND a person? I think wooden trolleys could potentially attach chests, and then the one YOU'RE on could push the chest one. But you couldn't have a chest and a player on one at the same time

I never said that you would be able to ride it...

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I never said that you would be able to ride it...

...but that's the entire point of push-trolleys. Like, literally, the entire point.

[valkupo 17]

The ideas seem nice, but I wonder if this part of pre-release 30 in the change log has been noticed:

Added temporary Minecart Rail Recipe. 4 Wrought Iron ingots on either side of two sticks gives a stack of 64.

Added temporary Powered Minecart Rail Recipe. Same as normal with redstone powder above the sticks and Gold ingots instead of Wrought Iron.

Added temporary Minecart Recipe. Same as vanilla except using Wrought Iron Sheets

[Peffern 94]

It says this is all temporary. I definitely think that TFC just begs for minecarts, this mod definitely has potential for big servers with like 5 or 6 people per faction, and definitely this deserves some tender loving care. I think the minecart recipe is ok, but the rails i think should be assembled using a hammer, nails, some sticks/ties, and some sort of bed. I want there to be nails so the other stuff i have planned for new suggestions can be harder/more fun to assemble

[The Nameless Name 9]

Yes, you have to be on a push trolley to "push" to make the trolley move. However, a wooden trolley with a chest never left the suggestion table. It could be attached to the push trolley via wooden nail?

[The Nameless Name 9]

Im sorry I did not see that there was another page, Ignore my last post.

[dabman10 34]

All of the suggestions about the requirements of ingots seem way too impractical. Remember that the reason to build railways would be to make transporting goods far more convenient. Why would this system be practical if you have to waste 50+ iron ingots into it?