Mineshafts and mining

[abandoned mines 119]

has anyone thought if we could have better ore carts ? the current box looking carts are very odd and don t work well in my oppinion

is there any way we could create a cart thaat looks similar to this one ?

[abandoned mines 119]

we could go and ask the guys at the trains and zepplins mod to help us create better carts

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Rezzing this thread because I like the idea of having to go down a whole line of rail beds pounding in spikes. It just seems so... sensical.

[Jed1314 420]

Rezzing this thread because I like the idea of having to go down a whole line of rail beds pounding in spikes. It just seems so... sensical.

Sensical, and in keeping with the TFC style. I definitely like it. Would rails be crafted in 3 parts ? Spikes, Sleepers and Rail ? Or would they be crafted as one "rail" and just need to be pounded into the ground ?

Also, I think the concept of engraved "rails" (which would be more appropriately referred to as tracks I think, as rail implies a raised item) and wooden carts was brought up before ?

This makes some sense (compared to embossed rails made of stone anyway) and would give users a starting option for rubbish but functional rail travel (something that would be incredibly useful given the new HUGE ore veins ). You could balance them by making them only usable in a straight line and needling gratuitous maintenance.

To elaborate on this engraved rail idea a bit, it would be done using the chisel in a new mode. I know pump carts were mentioned, but I'm thinking even more basic than that. Instead of pump carts, why not just push carts, like regular minecarts, made of wood and only capable of storage. It would need to have quite a big inventory to balance out against the players inventory (which is now far too large and throws out the whole balance of the game >.<).

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Sensical, and in keeping with the TFC style. I definitely like it. Would rails be crafted in 3 parts ? Spikes, Sleepers and Rail ? Or would they be crafted as one "rail" and just need to be pounded into the ground ?

Also, I think the concept of engraved "rails" (which would be more appropriately referred to as tracks I think, as rail implies a raised item) and wooden carts was brought up before ?

This makes some sense (compared to embossed rails made of stone anyway) and would give users a starting option for rubbish but functional rail travel (something that would be incredibly useful given the new HUGE ore veins ). You could balance them by making them only usable in a straight line and needling gratuitous maintenance.

To elaborate on this engraved rail idea a bit, it would be done using the chisel in a new mode. I know pump carts were mentioned, but I'm thinking even more basic than that. Instead of pump carts, why not just push carts, like regular minecarts, made of wood and only capable of storage. It would need to have quite a big inventory to balance out against the players inventory (which is now far too large and throws out the whole balance of the game >.<).

Actually I outlined metal rail crafting in the OP

Lay down the bed, make the rails, then place down the rails and hammer in spikes to finish it off

[Jed1314 420]

Actually I outlined metal rail crafting in the OP

Lay down the bed, make the rails, then place down the rails and hammer in spikes to finish it off

That was unusually stupid of me >.<

That sounds good to me !

What is the feeling on the engraved rails ? I know there has been a mixed opinion about them :S

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

That was unusually stupid of me >.<

That sounds good to me !

What is the feeling on the engraved rails ? I know there has been a mixed opinion about them :S

As long as they can ONLY support wooden carts, I'm on board *ba-dump-TISH*

[Jed1314 420]

As long as they can ONLY support wooden carts, I'm on board *ba-dump-TISH*

That deserves PUNishment (Ok, that joke was just inexcusably bad ) Yeah I feel the same, the wood thing is a necessity

[SilvaDreams 15]

Well instead of Engraved rails why not just go for wooden rails that would have a lower top end speed and more virtual friction which would slow it down faster (Think I had already said this earlier on) Because wooden tracks were generally used in mines because under the dank conditions where you might loose your haul.. Why spend precious metal?

Wooden rails would suck for use over long distance because it was slow and won't keep a lot of inertia but that is where the perk of upgrading to Iron rails would be useful letting you go long distances.

Though instead of just using Coal like in Railcraft ,which honestly makes no sense seeing as the main source for Creosote is actually Trees... Pinetrees being one of the best (There are some swamp trees too that are even better but.. ya slow growers and hard to get). But there is also other way to get it.

Though honestly Creosote Oil might be a LITTLE too new since it came into discovery and use 1832

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

... It seems I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Of course ! Roller coaster tracks were wooden until not all that long ago, and it would allow you to have a cart system right from be beginning (albeit a poor one).

Yes, unfortunately creozote oil falls well outside the guidline 400 year time gap (but then, so does any non horse powered locomotive )

[abandoned mines 119]

... It seems I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Of course ! Roller coaster tracks were wooden until not all that long ago, and it would allow you to have a cart system right from be beginning (albeit a poor one).

Yes, unfortunately creozote oil falls well outside the guidline 400 year time gap (but then, so does any non horse powered locomotive )

for engines and trains just use the trains and zeppelins mod

[Jed1314 420]

for engines and trains just use the trains and zeppelins mod

Way way too recent I think ? Zeppelins and advanced locomotives definitely, this mod is set between stone age and like 1600's right ?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

this mod is set between stone age and like 1600's right ?

Yyyyep ._.

[Jed1314 420]

Yyyyep ._.

I'm really happy with that I'm a total medieval geek

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I'm really happy with that I'm a total medieval geek

As a 100% of the guys that hitted the like button of this post.

Sef-promotion? what are you talking about?._.(?)

[Jed1314 420]

As a 100% of the guys that hitted the like button of this post.

Sef-promotion? what are you talking about?._.(?)

Hahahaha I didn't get it for a minute there, but I caught on eventually

I'll chat later though, I'm off to play with swords for a while and then head to a party

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Well instead of Engraved rails why not just go for wooden rails that would have a lower top end speed and more virtual friction which would slow it down faster (Think I had already said this earlier on) Because wooden tracks were generally used in mines because under the dank conditions where you might loose your haul.. Why spend precious metal?

Wooden rails would suck for use over long distance because it was slow and won't keep a lot of inertia but that is where the perk of upgrading to Iron rails would be useful letting you go long distances.

Though instead of just using Coal like in Railcraft ,which honestly makes no sense seeing as the main source for Creosote is actually Trees... Pinetrees being one of the best (There are some swamp trees too that are even better but.. ya slow growers and hard to get). But there is also other way to get it.

Though honestly Creosote Oil might be a LITTLE too new since it came into discovery and use 1832

Y'know, thanks for pointing that out. I totally flubbed on the research for this when I wrote the OP here

I say we let the original suggestion die in peace and start exploring new ways of getting carts around, that are more period

[nwaters 4]

well i feel im rather late to this discussion and unerstand if it is dead already but i feel there is a lot of chance to look at different tiers of minecart systems ranging from the first wooden ones to the later iron ones and just as a quick note would a pulley system not be viable aswell ( i have no idea if these were around during this time or not) but you can load up ur minecart go to the end of ur pulley system and pull the cart to you

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Railways are a significantly later addition to the mining industry than I think TFCraft intends to venture, but in the future, if TFC advances technologically that far (I think right now we're around 0 ADE?) we might add that in. (it would probably require a lot of metal though)

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Railways are a significantly later addition to the mining industry than I think TFCraft intends to venture, but in the future, if TFC advances technologically that far (I think right now we're around 0 ADE?) we might add that in. (it would probably require a lot of metal though)

well, it really should, it DOES use a lot of metal IRL, but if you make it too realistic in that respect, it might be problematic finding enough ore to produce enough track to be useful

[Jed1314 420]

Being a diligent member of the forum, I finally decided to get off my lazy ass and do some serious research into roman - high medieval transportation methods. Here I will detail my findings and also base a suggestion upon them. I was going to give this it's own thread, but decided the forum is cluttered as is.

The Research + Findings:

Pre Dark Age Systems

There was (unsurprisingly) very little info as regards the methods of transportation most commonly used for the transport of goods within mine based environments, nonetheless, this is what I could find:

Obviously, horse and cart systems existed (as they pretty much always have).

The Greeks were the first people to be documented using any kind of rail system. They were found to use an "engraved rail" known more commonly as a "rutway". These were used in conjunction with carts to improve the speed of travel, but were not widely implemented as many Greek roads were dirt based, and rutways require a stone surface. Their next appearance is on Roman roads, where they were implemented in the full size roads. These largely disappear after the fall of rome. The next appearance of a "rail like" system does not appear for many centuries after the dark ages (I will explain later).

After these early systems, transport (as well as most other technology) regresses as the west is plunged into relative anarchy for centuries. It is not until the Medieval period we would again see any significant transport infrastructure.

Early Medieval Systems:

In the early middle ages, the horse and cart proved as prolific as in any other "pre engine" era. Aside from this, the "windlass" was used in mine environments to haul ore (which was placed in buckets) up from the mines. The buckets were initially loaded by workers carrying the ore, but their job was soon made easier by the invention of the wheelbarrow. This was the most significant advancement in haulage technology, until the 16th/17th century

The Controversial Period:

This is where things are going to get a bit iffy. In the 16th/17th centuries (aka 1500 - 1600 for those of you who aren't too good with "centuries") brought advancement yet again to the transport world. Beasts of burden were still used (as no motors existed obviously) in this period, however, in places such as Germany and England, wooden rail systems began appearing in mines. These rails generally carried wooden carts with either wooden or metal wheels. They were pulled by beasts of burden (such as oxen and horses) up mineshafts, while gravity was used for the descent. These wooden rails did the job, but were fairly high friction and had poor long term durability.

There were no records of metal rails until they were first made by Richard Reynolds in 1767. This is outside of the games time frame. End of Story.

A Common Theme: Beasts of Burden Not going to lie. If this game intends to implement remotely realistic transport, at least one beast of burden is a necessity. These wonderful creatures have literally carried humans around the world for millennia. Give them the credit they deserve

Suggestion coming tomorrow ! (Should I make a new thread for it or ?)

[OZoellner 7]

I think rails and minecarts--in some way, shape, or form--need to be implemented (in a non-vanilla way) eventually.

My thought was, you could craft bars from a metal from each tier...

Tin Rods, Copper Rods, Bronze Rods, Wrought Iron Rods, Steel Rods, etc.

These, in turn, would be combined with sticks or logs to create rails of the various types.

Depending on the tier of the metal, the rails would wear out quicker and need to be replaced after a certain amount of usage. Tin could even be skipped, I don't know.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Being a diligent member of the forum, I finally decided to get off my lazy ass and do some serious research into roman - high medieval transportation methods. Here I will detail my findings and also base a suggestion upon them. I was going to give this it's own thread, but decided the forum is cluttered as is.

The Research + Findings:

Pre Dark Age Systems

There was (unsurprisingly) very little info as regards the methods of transportation most commonly used for the transport of goods within mine based environments, nonetheless, this is what I could find:

Obviously, horse and cart systems existed (as they pretty much always have).

The Greeks were the first people to be documented using any kind of rail system. They were found to use an "engraved rail" known more commonly as a "rutway". These were used in conjunction with carts to improve the speed of travel, but were not widely implemented as many Greek roads were dirt based, and rutways require a stone surface. Their next appearance is on Roman roads, where they were implemented in the full size roads. These largely disappear after the fall of rome. The next appearance of a "rail like" system does not appear for many centuries after the dark ages (I will explain later).

After these early systems, transport (as well as most other technology) regresses as the west is plunged into relative anarchy for centuries. It is not until the Medieval period we would again see any significant transport infrastructure.

Early Medieval Systems:

In the early middle ages, the horse and cart proved as prolific as in any other "pre engine" era. Aside from this, the "windlass" was used in mine environments to haul ore (which was placed in buckets) up from the mines. The buckets were initially loaded by workers carrying the ore, but their job was soon made easier by the invention of the wheelbarrow. This was the most significant advancement in haulage technology, until the 16th/17th century

The Controversial Period:

This is where things are going to get a bit iffy. In the 16th/17th centuries (aka 1500 - 1600 for those of you who aren't too good with "centuries") brought advancement yet again to the transport world. Beasts of burden were still used (as no motors existed obviously) in this period, however, in places such as Germany and England, wooden rail systems began appearing in mines. These rails generally carried wooden carts with either wooden or metal wheels. They were pulled by beasts of burden (such as oxen and horses) up mineshafts, while gravity was used for the descent. These wooden rails did the job, but were fairly high friction and had poor long term durability.

There were no records of metal rails until they were first made by Richard Reynolds in 1767. This is outside of the games time frame. End of Story.

A Common Theme: Beasts of Burden Not going to lie. If this game intends to implement remotely realistic transport, at least one beast of burden is a necessity. These wonderful creatures have literally carried humans around the world for millennia. Give them the credit they deserve

Suggestion coming tomorrow ! (Should I make a new thread for it or ?)

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

[Jed1314 420]

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

I figured you'd like this .. It's good to see my holiday hasn't affected my form

[TheBlindPeople 31]

I'm just glad it totally validates the idea of engraving tracks in stone. I really can't see how using metal for tracks would work out.